LTD and coil(s) vid readings:confused:

[jim tn]

As some of you know, my LTD with both the DD coils that came with it reads coins (except nickels) at least 3-5 numbers higher then does my regular F 75 and what the manual says "typically" how they read, and while vid isn't horribly bouncy on my LTD, it doesn't seem to lock on targets like my F 75 does, either.

I decided to try the 6 1/2" elliptical coil on my LTD this afternoon at a nearby elem. school. There weren't a lot of targets to dig with spring break going on and the winter months taking their toll on outdoor activities, but I dug enough to make me wonder.

I ran bp, 6 disc. and 80 sen.

Zinc's read 59-60. (1) 1971 Mem. cent read 69-70. Nickels read 30. Clad dimes read 71 and clad quarters 80-81. None of the coins were deep, 0-3," but those "typically" correct lock on numbers with the 6 1/2" coil sure has got me to wondering.

The next chance I get I am going to try my F 75's stock 11" coil on the LTD and see how that reads coins. I guess I need to try the 5" coil on shallow coins to be sure how it reads on those, as well. Most targets where I silver hunt are deeper, as a rule.

Anyway, kind of interesting, I thought. HH jim tn

 

[Elton]

And the 61/2 seems to straighten them out a little .. Please let me know how the 5" reads...and also how much depth loss do you get when using the 5" versus the 11" Jim.

 

[jim tn]

It has me wondering EL, if the DD coils have anything to do with the higher readings I seem to be getting with the LTD. I am not sure the compairisons are all apples to apples, but there was no guessing, except with one target, on the school yard what the target was. That one target, though, also got me to thinking...and I'm now at the point of thinking that there is to much thinking going on.

The one target was a pre 82 Mem. cent, the deepest coin of the day, at about 4" and totally on edge and bounced from 69-73. I had thought dime.

What my thinking has got me to thinking, almost all the targets I have been digging with the LTD have been from spots I and countless others have repeatedly hunted. There are no easy targets left on these sites. They are either masked, very deep, slanted, on edge, or all these things. Any or all of which, can make for some funky vid readings.

Just my thinking's thinking, anyway. HH jim tn

 

[BuckeyeBrad]

Your last paragraph IS metal detecting today in most places when you're going for the old stuff IMO also. Add previous hunting pressure into the mix and it's more so yet. I always get a chuckle when I read the posts that are essentially complaining of detectors giving jumpy erratic ID's. The dirty little secret is if it wasn't for those jumpy ID's, there wouldn't be anything left in locations where there has been a lot of previous hunting pressure. Raw data is the best if you take the time to learn the language. Try to hunt a hammered site with a detector that uses averaging heavily and yup, you'll get less jumping around on ID's but they won't hardly ever present any solid coin-ish ID's and the typical hunter will walk away not having dug what might be left there. About two or three years ago I started taking the time to really excavate older targets carefully and exactingly and between angle, depth, and collocation, it became very clear why the ID's on the remaining targets are what they are and it ain't the gear.

 

[Shambler]

detectors giving jumpy erratic ID's

It's almost sickening sometimes the posts that show up in this category. Who are you trying to convince? I feel like we're in a modern day political discussion where truth is secondary to what "sells". It gives you a chuckle that the TID is junk? I've been out four days straight (35 hours+) with the LTD and while it's deep and much more quiet (when the coils is on the ground), it's TID is a mess in BP. I'd venture to say that it triples the false positives of other just-as-deep detectors. I go back over the same area with another detector and pull out targets, but it was the unusual orientation of those targets that made the TID jumpy on the LTD???

Folks, it's a great detector, detecting deep with great ergonomics, but it's IMO (buzzwords) not very good in trashy 1800's era parks. Hell, even pull tabs will give you 70's and 80's on some sweeps. That folks IS up averaging even if it's not "programmed" in. If you don't mind digging 20 bad for 1 good, you'll love it. Take a breath before you start deleting my post ----- it's OK - there is no detector on the market that is TRULY good at everything - if you stick with facts, you'll never lose the argument or your credibility.

Raw data is the best if you take the time to learn the language.

Seemingly a no-brainer statement there, HOWEVER, If the raw data is presenting more than 50% false data, then it actually is worthless and should "calculate an 'up' average" (the buzzwords of the year). There's even a video on this very forum where the only target wthing several feet is an Indian head, check it out. The TID is worthless unless you make 20 sweeps, calculate the averages, throw out the anomalies, say a prayer to the coin God, do a good-find dance, and then dig.

I'm out hunting with others, and we have been calling each other to "good" targets to see what we hear with the different machines... what's being said here is just incorrect.

About two or three years ago I started taking the time to really excavate older targets

not the rest of us - we's ar dum

 

[Elton]

Good post.....Enjoyed reading your view point.

 

[BuckeyeBrad]

My results are apparently somewhat different than yours and opinions will vary as they always have and will. I can handle that without getting jacked out of shape, can you? I don't have one detector across several brands that don't give erratic ID's where I hunt....some more so than others. I've never had an issue figuring out each one's language with a little time invested. That doesn't make me any smarter or dumber than the next guy, it's just the way I look at it. I've never tried to sell anyone on the LTD's or any other detector and I wasn't even referring to it specifically in this instance. I just share my opinion once in awhile and less all the time for reasons just like this. If you think my posts are trash, then don't read them....unless you actually enjoy teeing off with personal tirades..... and if so, knock yourself out...it's your right to do so.

 

[greenmeanie]

I am not sure how to take your post but places I hunt all the detectors I have tried do the same.
I have tried minelab explorer and sov Xs,V3,tesero's,Fishers, and there is probably more I am forgetting.

All my meters have jump around. There is just too much junk in the ground where I hunt to get a good lock on a target. That is why I know a meter can never lock on 100% accurate.
I myself think I would do a lot better not even having a meter and digging on sound alone.

 

[Shambler]

unless you actually enjoy teeing off with personal tirades

That would gain me nothing and would lose the point I'm making. I honestly believe that Fisher Labs would be better served with an honest approach to the hobby. If your post was a generalization of the hobby as a whole, I didn't take it that way and I apologize for misrepresenting you.

All my meters have jump around. There is just too much junk in the ground where I hunt to get a good lock on a target. That is why I know a meter can never lock on 100% accurate.

Maybe I'm spoiled with the Explorer line and should probably not being promoting it since it's such a very good machine (more finds for me if I'm one of the few swinging it...). It's the only one I've used that you can dang near stop on a deep target and still get a good tone. That allows you to put the center of the pro-coil right on the target (near trash) and wiggle it to help you decide to dig. It was suggested in another thread that I sweep more quickly and at shoulder width to gain a better TID. That's nearly impossible (unless you wear tights and live in the Hall of Justice), when there are 6 or 7 targets in that sweep. You'd be saying to yourself, "ok, the third target from my left and second from my right sounds good, let me sweep even faster". In reality, it's could be a false from two adjacent pieces of iron wreaking havoc on your DD coil, or it's a piece of silver between two nails and you can't know if that's the case unless you get right between them. As far as not using a TID meter, I don't know if I agree since a four tone digital machine would have you digging 50:1 instead of 20:1. Maybe if you hunted in DP, you'd be right.

It's possible Cal is correct in another thread and this is highly dependant on soil conditions, but I'm doubtful since a guy in Tennessee claims 9" wheats with his 5" DD. I can tell you, I coudn't hear a 5" wheat yesterday with it. The guys were making fun of me for using that little coil, and they said "come here and find the coin". Couldn't hear it. The Explorer is spot on with Wheat TID 80% of the time, so they knew what was there. My Indiana soil should be much better than the hot soil of TN, I would think.

 

[BuckeyeBrad]

I was in fact talking in generalities and although apology not necessary, it's accepted. I've owned and used the first three Explorers a ton and totally understand (at least to me) what they do very well and not so good. The weight just evolved into a deal breaker by personal preference.

 

[Cache Man]

You are correct as to the soil in TN. it sucks, my F-70 on a good day might find a 8" to 9" Dime with the 11" DD Coil and that's hunting by tone only, it does Not lock on to a target past 5", like I said soil in Tn sucks for getting any depth or I.D's.HH

 

[Elton]

n/t

 

[jim tn]

The intent of my post was to point out my findings between different coils reading shallow targets differently. Shallow and deep targets with my LTD do read same targets higher. As far as "soil in tn. it sucks," I personally have not had the pleasure of hunting all across the state. I do know from middle Tn west, I can dig coins well past 6" to 7" with no problem and, after almost 40 years of detecting, I do know the difference between 5" and 9" depths. I also know there is a difference between detectors, including the F 70, F 75 and F 75 LTD...not to mention, the difference between detectorists, too. HH jim tn

 

[Cache Man]

Apparently you didn't read my post to well, I said 8-9" and you are not the only person in middle TN. who KNOWS how to use a metal detector just because you have a F-75 don't make you the best in the state nor a expert on detecting in TN. if you think because you have a
LTD that you are one the best in the state THEN more power to you, OH I guess I should have ended my above statement with, THAT'S the way it is in MY dirt, your results may differ from mine. HH

 

[greenmeanie]

I must say yes my explorer XS was better on a meter ID than others I have used but not by much. Also agree it depends on where you hunt. I never had my explorer pulling 10" deep dimes like others posted but I don't doubt where they are hunting they didn't do that either. The deepest on a dime I ever got with my explorer was 7"'s and it is my oldest coin to date and was a really silent whisper with no trash around it . The detector I found the most with was my Tesero golden Sabre and I could tell people when I would dig silver coins with it and that is with no meter LOL.

But now I am ready to try one of these Fisher f75's out because of the Recovery Speed. I really need to get between the trash and I swear my minelabs XS, Explorer's didn't do that for me almost like they where nulling out. I always seem to get less targets when using them when hunting but then again maybe it picked up less junk?
But if the F75 doesn't do it for you and you are not confident in the machine trade it out and get busy finding treasure. Another good idea see if your friends would let you borrow one of their explorer's just to make sure that is what you want.

 

[jmaryt]

mystery solved!..hell!..if what jim says is true,and i believe it is,then it would explain WHY the funky vid's!
we are ALL aware of these variables,so no further explanation is necessary!

(h.h!)
j.t.

 

[cometguy]

Jim,
I bet most of us know exactly why you started this post and we appreciate it. I can't believe people on forums getting all wound up and jumping all over some other guy who happens to share the same hobby. Sadly, it is not just on MD forums. I have noticed that the Internet seems to bring out comments that the average guy would never say to your face. I know that some smart answers pop into our heads when we read some posts, but guys slow down, read what you are about to send, and if it doesn't help the conversation or the education, hit the delete button. Jim, because of your post, I stuck the small coil on the F75 today and I do believe it locked in better. I suppose one of the possible answers is that it is getting a tighter look at the item and doesn't have so much "surrounding signal" to consider. Thanks for posting.

HH, Don

 

[Shambler]

Some folks are just sensitive to the written word. Most people on these forums that I know personally would have no problem telling it "like it is" in person. It's why the silly childish emoticons were created - to help people feel better about what they are reading.

 

[jmaryt]

that is correct don!..your small coil will NOT "see" as much in the soil matrix,so consequently WILL
see the remaining target(s)better and SHOULD electronically "lock" on with a more stable id!

(h.h!)
j.t.

 

[jim tn]

The intent of my initial post was not to stir up a hornets nest, so to speak, nor was my responses ment to imply there isn't a lot of bad ground in parts of Tn., or that I am the best hunter in Tn. If I came across that way from my wording Cache Man, I truly do apologize. I honestly don't think that and know there are parts of the state that has some really tough ground. Within the area I do most of my hunting, mine ground seemingly isn't so bad. I also happen to think the F 70 is a very good detector.

Simply put, I found it interesting that the 6 1/2" elliptical, non DD coil, in one brief test, did accurately read "typical" coin targets verses the higher and somewhat more bouncy readings I am getting with the 5" DD coil, as well as many others seem to be reporting, and simply wanted to pass my findings along.

HH jim tn