More lessons learned in my crazy southern soil...

[REVIER]

My dirt here in Birmingham is pretty bad with that red dirt severe mineralization problem the south has plus we have some tiny naturally occurring iron nodules infused into a lot of the dirt around here.
My F70 which could pick up and ID targets easily on standard factory settings up to 10" and beyond in the much better Kansas soil never shows any screen info much past 3-4" on those same settings so I am experimenting with more power to see if I can get deeper with some decent screen info.
I found that my blast through settings...AT, sense and thresh at max and both DE and SL can get a little deeper to maybe the 5-6" area with screen info and audio seems to get way deeper than that.
Most of the really deep stuff I have come across past 6" so far has been iron but I have found a couple of older wheaties in the 5-6" area also.
I suspect there still might be a lot of great coins or jewelry at that 6" area and beyond if I can just somehow get by that curtain that seems to hover about 5" deep around here that shuts down my screen.
There are a lot of deeper signals here even up to the 10-12" level that I can pick up in audio and pinpoint so I can see the depth but I can't see myself spending time digging every blasted deeper signal in this crazy hard to dig dirt and especially if most of them turn out to be little bits or larger pieces of iron which seems to be everywhere I go around here..
I need more info to make logical digging decisions.

Yesterday I went to a tiny park that has history going back to the 1900's and probably hunted to death like most public areas around here.
I switched back to the DD sniper coil because as much as I like using the large DD, which does give me a bit more screen info on the little deeper targets, the ID's all seem to be a bit more bouncy with a larger number range than I like to see.
I rarely get even shallow coins stabilize to a 1-2 number range like I could easily back in Kansas soil down to and even past the 6" area.
It is like something in the soil here reflects back into the coil and the larger the coil the worse the problem.
Also all public parks around here are loaded with trash so add 100+ years of garbage like this park has and the sniper was the logical choice.
Experimenting I found a bit more stability with that small coil, a tighter range of numbers on those good targets that did show up on the screen and that coil still gets me surprisingly deep on higher power settings.
I have recognized and dug a few older wheats at around the 6" area and as I mentioned saw pinpoint numbers up to 10-12" on clear audio hits from time to time so I think I will just keep this coil mounted for the foreseeable future as it seems to work better and can still get me to where I think I need to be.
I have probably spent more time hunting with small coils in my career overall than large ones and even when wandering into larger wide open less trashy areas using the small coil doesn't frustrate me as much as it seems to others because I have been lucky enough to find some great targets like gold rings under those circumstances when the numbers and percentages say I shouldn't.
I never discount luck in this hobby and just embrace it when it seems to come my way.

This park GB'd in some areas in the mid 60's but in others I got up to the mid 70's with 3 bars on the dirt meter.
Can't wait to hit sites that get into the 80's one day because I assume there is some of that around here too...lucky me.
I got in the habit of GBing from time to time when I could find a clear area because the soil can and does change every few feet most everywhere I go and I like to stay at optimum levels when I can.

On this hunt I came across a solid shallow sta tab signal at 35, ( hoping it was gold instead), and when I made a few more swings over it to make sure I then also found a pretty stable can slaw or beaver tail signal about 2" away at 41.
I dug the tab first which was a tab and went after the beaver tail which was not...it was a 1943p war nickel instead.
Thank you sniper coil.
I might have been able to find this thing with the larger DD but who really knows with all the trash in this area which was under a shade tree so the sniper just made it easier and another reason why I believe in them.
I don't believe this was sitting there for long but more of a modern drop because it was only a couple inches deep like all the other modern coins I came across on this hunt.
Most muggles don't know these are silver so I believe they are still pretty common plus still falling out of people's pockets and circulated even today.

I must interject here that another effect this soil seems to have on coins is the deeper they are the higher the numbers get for some reason.
Zinc cents rise a few points from my normal 61 as they go deeper which is a drag because a million screw on tops still seem to come in exactly the same at most depths.
Really shallow copper cents and dimes are still in the low to mid 70's but a couple inches down those numbers rise into the high 70's to low 80's.
Quarters will still be my normal 85 or so very shallow but more like low 90's even 3-4" deep here.
I dug another 43p silver nickel at about 6" recently from my front lawn and that thing hovered at around 80 but silver nickels sometimes seem to be strange no matter what soil they live in.
I have not come across a gold or silver ring yet since I returned but I wonder if the same thing will happen if I come across one at 5" or more.
Not worried about it, just wondering.
I found plenty of those here in the past but they were all pretty shallow so since I am hunting at a slightly deeper level now, or trying to, I am curious.

So anywhoo I spent all morning here looking for deeper older coins but came across no signals l like that in any way shape or form till I got tired and started to head back to the truck to go home.
Then it happened...
I was watching the screen and I saw some quick low 90's numbers flash by as I was moving the coil faster than I usually do because I was tired and heading home.
The iron in the soil around here, plus the older smashed flat really rusty pop tops do that all the time and I constantly see low 90's numbers on the screen all the time so I got used to that but on this one I didn't see the usual drop to lower numbers or iron that usually happens on junk targets that signal like this.
I stopped and went back and hit it again with a few quick side to side swipes and I was surprised when the numbers stayed between 90 and 93 just about every time from 2 directions.
I also switched to disc and I was using 1 tone, sense on 80, thresh at -2 and my disc was at 14 to knock out most iron and tried it again.
Same results...a pretty solid 90-93 every time on repeated scans.
Pinpoint said 6" so I thought could this possibly be a quarter or half that deep and if it was might it be silver?
I could only hope.
I opened a hole and when I got down to that 6" level...might have been more like 7" but I was excited so I forgot to measure, I did find a coin and indeed it was silver but not a quarter but a 1920 merc instead.
I was thrilled to say the least.
Nothing else in or around the hole to give that high number signal, I checked.

I learned a few things on that one.

Deep coins can go into high numbers but silver coins can go even higher if deeper.
I can use some disc and not blow out the settings all the way and still hit a depth level that could be a nice place to hang out which surprised me.
I am not sure if my favorite and normal 4H park hunting tone setting would have worked because I seem to get the least EMI problems in the lowest tones 1, 1F and 2F, but maybe.
It just might be possible to hit sites like this and if I have a mind to just cherry pick for older coins like some of the older guys do.
Hunting is all about confidence for me and if this signal or dirt it was in was not a fluke I will gain confidence I can hunt with disc in a much quieter and relaxing environment that I have gotten used to and not worry about wasting my time or missing a ton of good targets if I roll over them.
This stuff is huge for me and with every lesson learned I keep inching my way to understanding this challenging soil and the best and easiest way to hunt in it.
Of course I must thank the F70 and all its possible settings and abilities because as much as I loved my F2 I don't know if it would be possible to accomplish the same things and I suspect the experience would be totallly different and not as easy if I could.
My Vaq could probably get as deep here especially with a DD coil but again as much as I love using it the extra info I can glean from my screen in this rough dirt makes things easier on this old worn out soul with hopefully more great deeper targets and a little less digging in my future.

As always in this hobby...Life is good!

 

[still looking 52]

Nice finds Rev, that mercury dime was especially nice. This ground in wv is probably somewhere between Kanas and Ala, those high ID # at deeper depths don't come in to play with my f5 or my brother's f75, they seem to stay about the same no matter the depth but the tones do fade as the depth gets deeper, so we use the tones more for depth than the ID #. We are on a learning curve as well, your post are very informative keep them rolling.

 

[REVIER]

Nice finds Rev, that mercury dime was especially nice. This ground in wv is probably somewhere between Kanas and Ala, those high ID # at deeper depths don't come in to play with my f5 or my brother's f75, they seem to stay about the same no matter the depth but the tones do fade as the depth gets deeper, so we use the tones more for depth than the ID #. We are on a learning curve as well, your post are very informative keep them rolling.

No problem and actually why I write learning experiences up this way.
I learn from you, your brother and others, others learn from me if we put the info out there to read and digest.
The circle of life in this hobby.

The tones in both all metal and in monotone disc were both solid, loud and clear by the way on this dime.
Just like a shallow coin might be or at least I remember it that way.
The next time I get a signal like this I will experiment with other tones and see if multi tones would be different with a fading depth indication like you get.

I am amazed that there are so many different kinds of soil in this country that seems to affect similar detectors in so many different ways.
I never had experience with rising numbers as targets get deeper in 2 other states I have hunted in but they do here for some reason.
I don't recall that happening with my F2 in this dirt, but in the rare good soil I came across I could hit dimes at 7" with normal ID's and in bad soil I don't remember going much past 3" so this is new to me.
I will learn to adapt...I always do.

 

[Furious T]

Revier, please believe me when I say I am not "trying to teach my grandmother to suck eggs". Your experience in your different soils, and your successes speak for themselves.

You mentioned in your post that you went for a smaller coil when going into a trashier area, because you have found that the signals in your current soil come in tighter and with more stability, with the smaller coil. I am wondering if you have tried, in areas that are not so trashy, using the large coil, but lowering your sensitivity. It would be interesting to me to hear what happens if, when you detect a good signal in "blast mode", you lower the sensitivity and at what level of sensitivity you can no longer hear the signal from the target. Just a suggestion.

Nice finds and HH

 

[REVIER]

Revier, please believe me when I say I am not "trying to teach my grandmother to suck eggs". Your experience in your different soils, and your successes speak for themselves.

You mentioned in your post that you went for a smaller coil when going into a trashier area, because you have found that the signals in your current soil come in tighter and with more stability, with the smaller coil. I am wondering if you have tried, in areas that are not so trashy, using the large coil, but lowering your sensitivity. It would be interesting to me to hear what happens if, when you detect a good signal in "blast mode", you lower the sensitivity and at what level of sensitivity you can no longer hear the signal from the target. Just a suggestion.

Nice finds and HH

Yep, tried that but that bounce back falsing still seems to happen although less.
Not a whole lot of area in my sites that are really trash free or even considered low trash but a few, but I am still not sure how deep I can get on lower power settings but after this hunt I might inch it down a little bit at a time from 80 and experiment.
I know that high power doesn't necessarily get you deeper in all instances and could actually get you less depth but all metal all in max settings seems to do better than most so far.
More experimenting to do still.
I will hit on the right combination of perfect settings one day and I am enjoying the journey along the way and still managing to find some great things while doing that so still having fun and that is the object of hobby so I am happy.

 

[WV62]

Revier,

I had about 15 or 20 minutes to kill yesterday so I was at our church we have a lot next to it. I have hunted it several times in disc mode, but I tried AM and it wasn't as bad as I expected. I was able to hit several targets but they were giving me pretty low numbers. Then I got one that was giving me a pretty good 80 reading, so I dug that one and it turned out to be large brass nut.

We are planning a day hunt for this coming Tuesday so I will give AM a good work out.

Thanks for tip,

Ron in WV

 

[REVIER]

Just tried something else and that seems to be working pretty good too.
I appear to be able to get down to the 6-7" area with screen info and pretty decent ID's.
Disc at 1...SL speed...thresh at 0...Mono tone and also 1F...sense at least 80 but pushed it into the 90's.
Got some chatter in some areas at higher sense levels but not too bad, and the F70 stopped chirping and got down to business when I swung over a couple of good targets this way.
Audio was great on all targets and I got some small deeper iron signals way past 7" but didn't dig them...yet.
I pulled a nickel and an older wheat from the 6" area with these settings, the wheat was in the low 90's but the nickel came in really high in the 80's, too.
It was an early 60's nickel.
This was good info because if I come across a deeper gold ring I hope whatever numbers show up they will act the same.
I am still digging all solid signals with short range jumps from 2 ways no matter where they come in.

I am thrilled to get screen info at 6" in disc this way, on both good targets they jumped a range of about 3-4 numbers but no drops to lower or iron numbers and that was from 2 ways.
I have found that sometimes I can get the same high 90's signal swinging one way over iron, (rusty nails mostly), but turn 90 degrees and a completely different signal jumping and low with many iron numbers.
I have dug several of these type signals just to be sure in the last few hunts and it has been iron every time.
On one I had disc up to about 20 and one way I got those low 90's wheat or silver dime short range jumping numbers and then I turned and got silence.
This might turn out to be something I can use.
Still need to experiment a bit more with the thresh higher and more disc to see if I can still get deeper target screen info and maybe be able cherry pick.
I am also looking for a short, good sounding target with no screen info and with a depth reading of 8" or more to dig.
If I find it I hope there will be a coin down there.

 

[WV62]

Revier,

I spent the better part of a day hunting in AM, I did find some coins, but no silver for me that day. I am kind of thinking that the meter ID numbers are more accurate, and I was wondering if you experienced the same thing?

Ron in WV

 

[still looking 52]

This is great information that we can use on our next hunt. The only thing I would like to add is that I tested for any lost of depth by turning my disc up from 0 to 50 and found there was ' no' lost of depth and less chatter from the low iron signals which made it easier to hear those faint chirks we are looking for at those 6" to 8" range. I believe we need to use audio and meter together for better finds.

 

[REVIER]

When the WV bros. chime in it is always a good thing.
I have found that for some reason AM gets me better and more stable ID's than disc.
Even in areas of extremely high EMI.
This was an accident when I discovered this fact, I usually hunted in disc and used AM as a check for a long time.
Then one day I was at the edge of an old park with tons of trash, iron and more EMI problems than any other site I had ever been to.
I had been here before and that EMI was always there.
I got a signal and switched to AM to check and dug the target and forgot to switch back to disc.
I started swinging and noticed I was getting a lot of signals but they were solid, non jumping because of that EMI near as much, and better than what I was getting in disc.
Or at the very least I could pick out the targets a bit better.
The disc was set around 4-5, the sense was probably around 70-80, thresh was in the negative.
The AM settings were all maxed out on the thresh and sense...probably SL speed.
Crazy as it seems my detector was still jumping around a bit due to all the targets and the EMI but as always seemed to stop over each target with slow coil movements and zero in with some pretty stable numbers as it always does.
Audio was good and solid on actual targets, fleeting,smaller and not so loud when it falsed.
Actually it is kinda hard to explain the audio differences between a real target and falsing from iron or other trash but it is there and after awhile it became second nature to tell the difference in AM.
I was surprised and that was the moment I started switching to AM to hunt in more and more on every hunt after that and used disc as a check instead of the other way around.
It took time but I got more and more comfortable using AM as my prime way to hunt and still do today.
In crazy iron those blown out settings found me a ton, with practice, and they seem to be working best out of all of the settings I have tried in my crazy hot soil so far.
Your suggestion of sense on 80 and 0 disc seems to work pretty well too, I am trying 1 on the disc that is a bit quieter and still seems to get pretty deep also, but I am actually getting some more accurate signals on some of the deeper ones using AM.
I don't get many of those but I am examining the few I get using both disc and all metal from different directions and gaining confidence that I won't miss much in disc.
Still have a bit more confidence in AM at this point, though, because it is a proven method that works for me.

Here is just one of the experiences I had that gave me that confidence.
This was back in Kansas in good soil but under other difficult conditions.
It was at the same park in the same area at the edge where I always got that heavy, crazy EMI but by this time I had more experience using that AM all blown out setting method.
I was also using the large F75 DD coil at the time, too.

I got a signal with a bunch of jumping from low number iron to high coin numbers as I made some small side to side movements with that big coil.
As I kept swinging I kept seeing the numbers 51-53 pop up consistently in the same spot in the middle as I moved that coil.
Those were gold class ring numbers for me and I am forced to dig them very time after finding 4 other class rings in the past.
This was not a good signal, by most measures I should have skipped it with all that jumpy non stable iron numbers stuff happening around it but that 51-53 still kept popping up which triggered my digging instinct.
I homed in on that area with my PP opened a hole and once again I was totally surprised.
There was no class ring down there but there was a gold ring was in that hole.
Honestly I expected to dig a piece of can slaw or pull tab, instead.
I then dug out a small piece of iron that gave some low iron only numbers that was about 2" to the left of this ring, and found out there was a large piece of rusty iron very deep somewhere below and a few inches to the right of this ring...the kind that throws of both low and high numbers but that one I left in the ground.
Some luck was with me on this one.
I have no idea what kind of signal I would have gotten if I would have hit all 3 of these things at the same time from 90 degrees, or what would have happened with the small sniper coil and I didn't check this signal at all in disc at the time, either.
All I can tell you is that I got good enough by that time to pick out and notice that 51-53 signal in AM in all that heavy EMI and between 2 pieces of really close iron.
By the way the big iron piece on the right up averaged the gold ring numbers because out of the ground the ring was a solid 41.

After that I really got mucho confidence using AM and after seeing it work in many other sites under many different conditions now it is my favorite way to hunt most of the time.

My hunting buddy that uses an E Trac listened to what I do and how I do it in AM and he came up with a good way to put it.
He said instead of using all the processing and disc power in my F70 or what he uses on his E Trac, I just gather in all signals and I trained my brain to quickly process and pick what I want to dig and what I don't...and learned to choose wisely for the most part.
Maybe, but I am still working on finding a confident disc setting I can use because it is a much quieter way to hunt.


Also I have read several posts from owners that swear that turning up the disc does not loose depth so I am experimenting and starting to confidently believe that, too.

 

[WV62]

Revier,
For sure a nice ring, congrats.

Reading through your post reminded me about the noise, EMI, chatter of the detector, when I switched from disc to AM the detector went quiet. But of course I was getting a lot more target noise when swing the detector.

I have done a lot of air testing, and on the F75 I can't really measure any difference from 0 disc to max disc on coin targets. Now when max disc will give you a problem is if a good target is close to another target not of the same ID value. The machine will average the 2 targets and the ID will drop below Max disc so you may miss it all together. Gust one of many stories, I was hunting in an area know-en to give up some big silver coins from time to time. I happened to run across a silver half dollar and my brother SL52 was just a few yards away and he checked my target before I dug it and he also called it a half, and it was. So we went wild and covered every inch of that area over and over but nothing else came up, so we moved on. So sometime later that summer I took another detector to that same spot and the disc was set just below nickels and I was digging everything that sounded off. I got a signal within a foot or two of where I found that half and I dug it out and there was a nickel and a silver dime in the same hole. I will never know how low of a number I would have got off my F75, but it was for sure less than 65 my max disc setting.

One way to hunt in max disc is to notch in your favorite numbers.

Ron in WV

 

[REVIER]

Two coins...hard earned but still proudly found.



I have my lawn to practice on, my neighbors too, when I don't have time to go on a real hunt.
Each is loaded with iron, when they built this neighborhood they used a ton of slag from the local foundry as land fill.
There is also little bits and pieces of iron, screws, nails and other bits that most old homes are plagued with.
Then I have the red dirt mineralization problem.
I have found several coins in these small lawns, some modern, several wheaties going back to 1918 and one silver a 43p nickel.
Now targets are sparse but the two areas are still good to practice and every time I hit them I look for just one more.
Yesterday I found two.
One, the 52d wheat was found in disc with settings I am just starting to experiment with, higher disc for cherry picking,(25),...which worked.
I was -2 on the thresh and in 1F, SL speed.
Had to move the sniper coil really slow to pick it up, not really deep only 4" but jumpy due to deep iron.
Move the coil slightly off center and it was gone.
I was really high on the sense, in the 90's, I am going to move that setting down slowly on these signals in the future and see if I can cut out the deep iron but still get decent depth to find targets at the 6-7" level with better and more stable ID's
I don't know what that sense/thresh combination would be but I have hope I will hit on it soon.

The 40 nickel was the prize and it was taken from the bottom of a hole that was about 7" deep, there was a piece of iron in that same hole and some huge piece of iron deeper and underneath.
I have worked for weeks just to try to get to the 6"area and ID good targets consistently...this was found with my all in, all metal blast through settings.
This thing was jumpy, a nickel which are usually the iffiest out of all the coins I dig, not close to nickel numbers,(50's), and yet somehow I acquired the target and something in the signal tripped my digging instinct.
It was jumpy but I did not see many dips, none actually with really tiny, short side to side swipes, to iron so I got curious.
That represents something big for me.
I was expecting trash so when an old nickel popped up I was surprised and thrilled.
I now have to start digging the more jumper numbers on targets that are 5" or deeper that don't dip to iron much and maybe a few that do.
Maybe I will turn the sense down in AT and see what that does for me since there is so much deep big iron around here.
Slowly I am figuring out how to hunt better in this crazy soil and pulling out some good targets.
When life gives you lemons, make lemonade and I am slowly learning to do that.

 

[REVIER]

Went to an old park this morning to try digging some jumpier, deeper signals but they were all trash which I guess was a good thing.
I was tired and hot so I called it a day and started walking back to the truck.
Right at the edge of the park I wanted to end the day on one more good target and I got a classic shallow zinc signal in the low 60's.
Depth number says 4" but I still expected a zincoln and that would be good enough.
Instead the oldest wheat I have found so far popped up instead.
Weird.
Just when I think I have this soil figured out this happens.
It was solid and within my small jumping range digging rules so I would have dug it anyway but those low numbers were strange.
Might have been some deep iron under it down averaging but I didn't notice it at the time.
I was in all metal but the sense was lowered into the 80's so maybe that was it...who knows.

In great shape and beautifully green just the way I like em.

 

[Mike Hillis]

Revier,
If I could ask a favor....and please don't take this the wrong way.

Could you type in paragraphs. I want to read your posts but your typing style of sentence after sentence shorts out my brain and I never make it a third of the way through them before giving up and moving on.

If I'm asking too much, just tell me to bug off and I'll move on.

HH
Mike

 

[REVIER]

Revier,
If I could ask a favor....and please don't take this the wrong way.

Could you type in paragraphs. I want to read your posts but your typing style of sentence after sentence shorts out my brain and I never make it a third of the way through them before giving up and moving on.

If I'm asking too much, just tell me to bug off and I'll move on.

HH
Mike

LOL!
For you I will make an exception.
I have put enough people in the hospital intentionally in my life...no need to drive you nuts too.

 

[Mike Hillis]

Revier,
Thank you for caring about my mental health!

HH
Mike

 

[REVIER]

Hunting a small park that isn't really old but was the site of an old neighborhood back in the day. Historic Aerials showed me where the old houses were laid out so I am concentrating on areas where I believe the yards used to be.Tons of iron slag here from a local foundry used as landfill, small and large bits of iron from the homes they knocked down and lots of the usual garbage you find in parks like can slaw, tabs, pop tops and whatever. Add to all that the crazy red mineralized soil and nothing is easy around here.

I have been working on getting better at getting as deep as possible and figuring out what good signals sound and look like when they are deeper and slowly making headway. I have resigned myself that no good target past 3" here us going to come in solid and stable, masking iron is going to affect a large amount of my signals so picking out the good signals to dig instead of digging everything is important. I am getting good at using all metal which works well in this environment, now I am trying to figure out ways to use disc to possibly do some successful cherry picking and that is coming along too.


One area near a street at the edge of this park is where I know the front lawn of an old home used to be. A small area, but I have been over and over this place several times and found modern clad, a few older wheaties and an Alabama tax token in the past plus one silver pendant...and tried to avoid the huge amount of garbage. Now there are very few good signals left but I hit this area on every visit to see if I can find just one more hidden gem.
Yesterday I hit that area again, used the F70, sniper coil, disc on 25 to knock out most large iron and some foil, 1F, and got a jumpy signal at 4-5" that seemed decent. I dug down and another tax token popped up.
Success!
Every deeper good target is a victory, every one a learning experience.

Using the F2 in the past here the shallow stuff was easy to find at the 3" and less level, the older, better targets seem to be in the 4-7" area where I never spent much time before but the F70 can reach so I need the knowledge to get better info down there.

I sure miss the heavenly easy to hunt in Kansas soil but that is history now so I need to learn to deal with this insane environment now.
Slowly but surely the lessons are being learned.

 

[still looking 52]

Sounds like your putting in the time and energy to become a better metal hunter and once again I want to thank you for sharing your experiences, this silver hunting is getting tough so this information can and does help me and my two brothers when we go on our hunts. My one brother(wv62) has been trying your all metal style hunting and it's just another weapon in our bag.

 

[REVIER]

That's why I share this stuff...and I try all your ideas too so thanks.


Earlier today I went back. Nothing really deep today, except for iron, those deeper good ones are few and far between, but while I was looking I did locate and pick up all this clad fairly easily.
Iron was all around most of these coins. I have scoured this park many times for hours and took out huge amounts of clad in the past but no place is ever hunted out.

Today I tried disc 6, 2F so I could hear the iron grunts on the rusty iron false high tones, sense was at 80-90 thresh at -2.
At 80 sense and that thresh level it was quiet but still not sure how deep that gets me compared to blown out all metal.
I will try it again and check these settings out over the next good deeper target I come across.

 

[Mike Hillis]

Much better reading. Thank you Revier!
HH
Mike