My Three Complaints with the ATX

[SoCalBeachScanner]

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This is an ATX forum, so you need to hear all points of view. Not just candy coated ones.

Through my career I have had to work closely with many engineering departments. One thing I have learned about engineers is that most are conceptually book smart and come from a belief that "it looked good on paper", but when it come to the application, they have no common sense, and usually don't have a clue.

The first thing that I can't understand, why would they make the pivot point of the coil all the way in the back. This totally makes the coil without a fulcrum so the coil can pivot back to the ground with slight downward pressure of the shaft. In the picture below when the AT Pro coil hits the ground, the coil automatically lays flat when it touches the ground, because it actually has a fulcrum. With the ATX, you have to step on the front of the coil to get it to lay flat, unless you adjust the tension screw to the point the coil is flopping in the breeze. And even when you do push the front of the coil down, that new style rubber bushing at the coil pivot point, causes the coil to spring back up some.

Second, is with that headphone wire connection. I already had one mishap with this connector, and I don't want another. Here's my problem with the placement of the headphone connector.
When your out detecting and stop to talk to someone, or stop to get something out of your pocket, and lean the detector against yourself, that headphone wire connection sticks you in the side. Sooner or later that headphone wire from many 90 bends, will eventually cause an open circuit. Not to mention, that is absolutely the worst location to have it sticking out of the heavy business end of the machine. Sure, I could always lay the detector on the ground, but why should I have to compensate for terrible headphone jack placement design.

Third, is that totally useless coil cover, that is more suited for a storage and travel cover. Not only is it a catch basin for sand when detecting in the surf, it defeats the function of the Pinpointer by not being able to see the center of the coil. Sure, I can cut up the cover, but why should I have to compensate for a terrible design. I heard a rumor on this site that Garrett may be making a AT Pro grid style coil cover for the ATX, even though Garrett CS knows nothing about a new cover. In the mean time, my coil is getting all scraped up.

I talk to a Customer Service Representative at Garret that was handling my repairs about giving me a contact in engineering. They cannot give out phone numbers or email address for engineers. But I was told to send them my concerns and they will forward to engineering. I wanted to see if they have or can make a 90 degree elbow headphone adapter fitting so I could direct the wire to the side of the machine.

Anyway, so far, other then that, I'm good to go

 

[Old California]

Hi SouthCal,

I agree, would prefer the coil stem more centered myself.

I believe the stem is mounted like it is because that's the best logical place so when the coil is folded for storage purposes the detector is smaller, otherwise the more the stem is mounted to the center of coil that additional length is added to the length of detector when compacted.

My take though, makes sense though

Paul (CA)

 

[whylee]

Those are all very good (bad) points. I really dislike the coil arrangement. Seems to me that this one feature will drive some away from it.

 

[Detectorbits]

90 degree headphone plug adapters are available anywhere surely.

 

[frog21]

This is copied from page 28 of the ATX manual.

"For water hunting, use an open coil cover or no coil cover, as the
optional closed coil cover can create excessive drag in the water."

Back in November, I personally spoke to someone in management at Garrett and they told me that they will be producing both types of coil covers.

You can thank the U. S. Military for the design of the ATX. The ATX is the body of the mine detector the Recon Pro. The military requests certain design specs and if you want to win a bid, that is what you have to do. Garrett could have done a complete redesign for the ATX but I am sure that would have driven up the cost. I assume the pivot point for the coil is for a smaller profile when folded do it can more easily be put into a backpack, etc.

 

[Night Crawler]

Garrett has been "awfully" quite on this machine. 1 - instruction video and 1 - quick fix coil cover since it's release.

Personally speaking here, I think Garrett has a great "concept" going with the ATX, but their is room for improvement to make it even better as you have mentioned SoCalBeachScanner. As for the coil design, I can see why they made it that way, as an ex military guy myself, I don't want anything "snagging" or "grabbing" on every little branchand/limb when your carrying it and a 50lb. back pack through the bush and that's just what would happen if the coil was designed like the AT Pro.

Having said that, this is now being sold on a commercial bases. I think Garrett could design a coil which had a "center point/quick release" connection to it to make make it more user friendly to the public. As for the head phone connection? I couldn't agree with you more on that one, this needs to be addressed by Garrett (soon). That Coil Cover? No Comment on that (to be polite) but you said it best SoCalBeachScanner.

My personal take on the ATX is it's a bit over priced for a design that's been around for some years but I like the "concept" of it very much. As with any metal detector being sold these days, I'm sure we could find room for improvement on most of them. I think Garrett has a "Home Run" here but they need to address the small issues that can pose a "big" problem for them which might sway the prospective buyer from purhcasing one. Other than that, I think the ATX does an oustanding job from what I have seen from BearKats and Warrens videos, great concept with a Turn On and Go PI machine and Great Performance overall.

Rant Off.

 

[SoCalBeachScanner]

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My thoughts on the comments above:

1) "90 degree headphone plug adapters are available anywhere surely."

Surely Not ... those headphones plugs are Garrett Proprietary and are only used on Garrett Waterproof Products. Although they do offer an adapter so you can use any 1/4" jack headphone. I was going to purchase Gray Ghost Amphibian offered with the Garrett plug. Now I may just go with the adapter (pictured below) so I can use any headphone and maybe I can modify the adapter somewhat.

2) "Back in November, I personally spoke to someone in management at Garrett and they told me that they will be producing both types of coil covers."

That's all and good ... but that doesn't help my coil from getting torn up now. The only reason I want a coil cover is to protect the $500 Coil and resale value of the machine incase I want to sell it at some point. They could even have a slight extention on the back of the coil cover to give some leverage to flip the coil down.

3) "I assume the pivot point for the coil is for a smaller profile when folded do it can more easily be put into a backpack, etc."

If they just moved the hinge toward the center of the coil one or two inches would make a huge difference to flop the coil flat against the ground. Then, to satisfy the collapsed length, they could have shortened each of the cam locks a half an inch or so and they could have maintained the same collapse length. Those cam locks are almost two inches tall.


I've heard the weight of the ATX has been an issue with some. Personally, so far anyway, the weight has not been a issue with me.
Although, with the price point of the ATX, you would think they could have made the shafts and part of the housing out of carbon fiber to try to get the total weight closer to 5 pounds, instead of closer to 8 pounds. Even if they had to charge a few hundred more. People will pay for quality along with design.

 

[SoCalBeachScanner]

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An Afterthought on the ATX Weight

Working for a fishing tackle manufacture for part of my career, I know about the production of carbon fiber (graphite) rod blanks. Carbon fiber rod blanks are made on a tapered mandrill and made to precise specifications to conform to the proper rod action. Making carbon fiber detector shafts is a lot less complicated.

So I took the coil off my ATX to get a better look at the four telescopic shafts (photo below). The wall thickness of these shafts really amazed me. I realize the diameter of the shafts need to be larger to accommodate the black coiled coil wire, but the wall thickness of the shafts is way overkill with such a large diameter tube. If these four tubes were made from carbon fiber, they most likely could be 1/3 the thickness, would be twice as strong, and weigh at AT LEAST one pound less. The coil and shaft on the ATX is all one unit and weighs 3.5 pounds, which is the total weight of my AT Pro.

The weight problem with the ATX is not with the control unit, it is with the four shafts. When I try to swing the ATX with short bursts over a target with a repeatable signal, changing directions is like your swinging in slow motion compared to the AT Pro. The inertia of the swing is hard to stop to change directions which is all due to the weight of the shafts.

Hopefully an aftermarket carbon fiber shaft manufacture will read this and get on it. I will be the first in line to purchase carbon fiber shafts for the ATX.

 

[Robert2300]

I don't have the ATX but if I did and it brought home the gold..I'd learn
to live with it.

 

[ivanll]

If it doesn't fit, it gets modified......then practice, practice and more practice......success depends on the driver!

Gravity do play a role in attracting dense object, perhaps that's why everybody place their gold nuggets on scales so they can whinge about the weight.

ivanll

 

[Dancer]

I can understand the military requirements. But, probably over 95% of us don't want something less comfortable than what we already have. We're paying for results but dragging along a heavy ,arkward clunker just doesn't sound like fun.

 

[Robert2300]

The ATX IS HEAVY? The White's MXT is almost 5lbs.

I wonder what Garrett could have done different with the ATX and
not sacrifice the convenience of folding the detector up into such a nice travel
package?

Robt2300

 

[Night Crawler]

Personally speaking here Robert2300, I think the fold up and go concept is one of ATXs best selling points.

As for paying a few hundred dollars more for a lighter ATX, not a chance (for me anyways). I think Garrett hit the MAX price point with this metal detector.

Rant Off (again).

 

[SoCalBeachScanner]

The ATX IS HEAVY? The White's MXT is almost 5lbs.

I wonder what Garrett could have done different with the ATX and
not sacrifice the convenience of folding the detector up into such a nice travel
package?

Robt2300

Hi Robert,

The telescopic shaft is fine if you plan on backpacking or jet setting around the world. Personally, I have no need to collapse the shaft. My ATX shaft is always adjusted in the position that works for me. It is either laying in the back seat of my vehicle, or standing against a wall in my home. I purchased the ATX for the power it has to find small gold chains and gold bands, not because it has a telescopic shaft to add weight to the machine.

In my opinion, Garrett could have made the coil removable from the shaft and offered two types of shafts. One shaft could have been a two piece light weight adjustable shaft like most detectors have. That would take a least 1.5 pounds off the part that you have to swing. Swinging the weight of the control head of the machine is not a problem because it is up against your arm. It's the weight of the coil and shaft that takes it's toll on you, with or without a harness. The harness doesn't help much when your doing short bursts back and forth over a repeatable target. Those short fast jerks back and forth to center the target under your coil takes it's toll on you trying to stop the inertia of the weight of the coil and shaft.

By having two types of shafts would also keep the coils from costing $500+ dollars each because you would not need to purchase a telescopic shaft with each coil.

Anyway, those are my thoughts

 

[joemac]

Hi All
Some really good ideas on some mods for the ATX.
I got mine on Christmas eve and have had about 20 hours swing time on it. Hopefully get to the first swing on the surf tomorrow.

I don't think all the comments in other parts of this forum have been candy coated. Anyway I will add my 2 cents worth here.

Firstly the ATX is a heavy machine and my arm was in a bit of pain after the first day. To be honest I have got used to the weight now and I do use the sling with it. Saying that I did give the 20" a go for about 15 minutes and even with the sling I found it extremely heavy and uncomfortable even with the sling. Maybe I just have to practice.

The 20" still has no cover so I am very reluctant to use it till I get one or make one. Any ideas on what to make this from would be welcome.

The pivot point at the back of the detector coil I hated when I first started to use it but I have got used to it and don't mind it now.

The 12" coil cover that came with the package I really like. I know it is totally useless for the beach but in the bush I like it. It glides over the twigs and rocks without getting caught up. I hope Garrett make a cut-out cover for beach work.

The headphone connector. This has got to be the most stupid part of the design. To say the machine is built like a tank and then put the connector at the back with not protection must have been a moment of shear stupidity. Have look at this post Broken headphone connector Ok it was self inflicted but it does show how vulnerable this part of the design is. I am using Gray Ghost earphones too and a 90 degree and adaptor would help but I still think it would be vulnerable.

I used the alkaline batteries that came with the detector. I got about 10 hours from them. I went to change them and realised just how much $ and land fill I would be adding to. I quickly bought more rechargeables. There is a really good post here Rechargeables so I won't go on about them in this post.

I think we can all find faults with any machine. I must admit I did and still do with the ATX but at the end of the day I love the ATX and really glad I have purchase it. I am still practising and getting to know the machine. The faults seem to fade and the positives on the ATX take over. The big pluses are the ease of use and the quietness when in use. I had to check a few times to make sure the thing hadn't died on me. I love the fact that it folds up so small. I travel a lot with work and this is the biggest plus for me.
HH everyone
Joe

 

[SoCalBeachScanner]

Great comments joemac,

I like my ATX also and the way it runs very stable & quiet, even in the nastiest of mineralized wet sand, such as in Long Beach, CA. The inside upgraded components and DD Coil are ATX, the exterior design remained a Recon unfortunately. I can't complain, I got it just over 40% off the retail price. I will use it hard for six months, see how it performs, then see if I can live with it.

As of now, that coil hinge design really drives me nuts. I go from the surf zone up 90% to the side of the deep cuts in the beach, and when I come back down, the coil is slanted up at a 45% angle, and I have to knock it back down flat. What a pain, and it didn't have to be that way because they made the DD Coil for the ATX.

We can always use the ATX like this guy and sneak up on the gold and relics

 

[joemac]

Hi SoCalBeachScanner
I am off to the beach for the first time with it tomorrow. I am sure I will have a few more complaints, sorry observations to add to the forum.
I don't fancy the laying down technique in the photo, especially in the surf Wondering if you could use a strap from the front of the coil and maybe secure it to the bottom knuckle on the shaft. Just thinking out loud.
All the best
Joe

 

[Robert2300]

The ATX only 3.5lbs? Thats light compared to the MXT.

"As for paying a few hundred dollars more for a lighter ATX, not a chance (for me anyways)"
I wasn't implying they should do that.

"I wonder what Garrett could have done different with the ATX and
NOT sacrifice the convenience of folding the detector up into such a nice travel
package?

I like the idea of folding it up when on the goe, especially traveling by air.
To bad they could not have done that with the AT GOLD.

 

[Old California]

Hello SoCal,

Was curious on the weight if I was to compare a metal shaft with same size coil as the ATX stock coil with shaft, As I had expected the bulk of weight comes from the ATX Stock DD coil not so much the shaft itself.

Put together another metal shaft assembly in about an hour actually came from a junker metal detector, Added the 10"X14" Infinium DD to the modified metal shaft and between the two the ATX stock setup appears to be about the same weight. This week, Will take them down town and get a weight on both then get back with the comparisons.

The two modified metal shaft assemblies in the pic below with the smaller 3'X7" DD and the 10"X14" DD are about the same in weight without the coils, The smaller coil swings like a feather but with the larger 10"X14"DD sure can feel the difference it is so much heavier.

Maybe Garrett will come out with a lighter DD heck even a thin 10" or 11" beach coil will be great, Give Garrett time they will make it right with a bunch of cool stuff for the ATX.

Paul (Ca)

 

[D-Tex]

After reading these posts about the design of the ATX I feel compelled to voice my take on the subject even though I do not own an ATX.

The board was all a buzz when Garrett announced that they was going to come out with new detector, people was chomping at the bit

to get there orders in for it, even before it was on the production line let alone in a store. Everyone wanted to be the first kid on the block

to own one, even though they had no idea of any design flaws it may or may not have built into it. When videos were posted of it they

picked over them like a chicken over a worm they was fixing to eat. With looking at a video that many times one would think one would

have spotted the design flaws just as fast as they did features that they liked about it. In spite of what some people think about it, Garrett

spent a huge amount of money bringing this machine on the market and keeping the cost down ( with in reason might be a better term )

and at the same time be competitive against other detectors in this category that cost twice as much. No one forced you to try and be the

first kid on your block to but it, you did this on your own so man up and work around its design flaws and enjoy it for what it is, a state of the art

detector that can and will do more than what you was using before you got that case of " I WANT ONE OF THOSE ".

You may ask what machine I use, well I use six different one's; why, because no one machine can do what the others can, I use a MineLab

SD2200d that the battery weights five pounds and cost $128.00 and if you do not take very good care of it you will be buying a new one before

your next hunt. Do I like carrying that monster around hanging on my belt or in a back pack ? NO I do not but I was aware of what was involved

and its " design flaw " before I wrote out that $3600.00 check for it and have never regretted doing it. I wanted its ability to find gold in the worst

ground and its ability to do that deeper than any other detector that was on the market at the time, and that's what I got, along with its battery,

its lack of a internal speaker, the need of an after market amp so you could hear the faintest target at 24", not to leave out the cost of the coils

that were the dream of a gold prospector, that cost more than most detectors that were on the market at that time. To sum it up; I went to them

of my own free will and checkbook and walked away with the best detector money could buy, that was around 16 years ago and I still own it and

I still lug that over size battery along with it but don't whine about it. MAN UP and quite whining , use it or sell it, better yet just learn how to use

it and enjoy what it can do for you that your past detectors could not.