Need help with the deus: Andy S program vs No disc deep

[Gannon]

Hey everybody! I hope everyone is well.
Little background: I’ve been running the Deus since June. I live in Tennessee and it’s my main detector.
I’ve read Andy S book twice, I’ve read the manual 4 times and took notes. The real learning is in the field I feel.

My Question/ problem statement: My main question is, when hunting in mixed iron and trash, does using discrimination decrease the saparation ability of the detector?
Using descrim I get a lot of “clipped” or “choppy” signals. Which makes me wonder if those are masked deep coins??

Now For some reason with the deus I never use descrimination but all my other detectors I do. I watched Gary’s Video on his sifter program and stuck with full tones.

My settings: carpet of nails old school site ( from 1910) Sense 90, Full tones, reactivity 2.5-3, tx power 2, nothing notched, silencer 0-1 audio resp 4, iron volume 3 Freq 11

I’ve done pretty well with this in nail sites to pick out goodies but it’s fatiguing on the mind.

My second issue: does using reactivity of zero or one lengthen toneal response of targets? The tones seem different and pronounced??

My deep program :
Disc zero-Freq 8-full tones- zero notch-reactivity 0-1-txpower 3 silencer -1 audio response 4

Now I’ve hit really deep coins in my test garden up to 10 inch quarter easily. But my issues is deep iron (use 4khz check/90 degree turn etc) and the response seems much different with a low reactivity vs 2.5 which is crisp.

Am I losing deep targets due to low reactivity and strange tone response? And in nails is Andy S 12 coin program more suitable or something like my carpet of nail program?

My apologies if I’m rambling and poor sentence structure I’m typing this on my phone lol..


Thank you for your time!

 

[calabash digger]

I too started with full tones and zero disc and have done well with it BUT I have come up with a new way to hunt iron I will send you a link to my video about it. CT Todd uses a 5 tone program and you can find it on the web and he has a lot of success with it. I use a disc of 10 in my iron program now and also don't use full tones because you cant control the iron vol in full tones. I still hunt with full tones because I know it so well I just use it for a different purpose now. Its more of a general hunt locate program now. I NEVER hunt with a reactivity below 2 and use 3 in the machine gun iron. Depth in the iron not really something I worry about, UNMASKING is more important imo. Check the video link out I send you and let me know what you think... BTW looking for perfect signals in iron doesn't happen all the time sometimes their pops and pulled down by the iron but keep on with it and you will get used to it. Warning about changing settings all the time every time you change reactivity it changes the tonal response of the machine ,disc changes how it behaves, and of course different tones do. What I'm saying is if your hunting thick iron and say you have a reactivity on 3 leave it alone and don't be changing it up and down ..... WHY because it changes the little nuance of how the machine behaves and you will NEVER be able to figure them out if you always changing them .Same thing goes for tones too learn how you have it setup very well then you change later if you NEED to for a reason.. I know your trying to figure the machine out and that's great your doing great but the nuances in the tones is where its at so be careful changing settings. Heres my rule of thumb reactivity of 2 for gen iron hunting and 3 for thick iron and I never change from that why because I learned how the machine behaves with those 2 settings. just my 2 cents. Of course with all that being said you have to have the machine setup to suit your needs and looks like your on the right path for figuring that out!

 

[Gannon]

I too started with full tones and zero disc and have done well with it BUT I have come up with a new way to hunt iron I will send you a link to my video about it. CT Todd uses a 5 tone program and you can find it on the web and he has a lot of success with it. I use a disc of 10 in my iron program now and also don't use full tones because you cant control the iron vol in full tones. I still hunt with full tones because I know it so well I just use it for a different purpose now. Its more of a general hunt locate program now. I NEVER hunt with a reactivity below 2 and use 3 in the machine gun iron. Depth in the iron not really something I worry about, UNMASKING is more important imo. Check the video link out I send you and let me know what you think... BTW looking for perfect signals in iron doesn't happen all the time sometimes their pops and pulled down by the iron but keep on with it and you will get used to it. Warning about changing settings all the time every time you change reactivity it changes the tonal response of the machine ,disc changes how it behaves, and of course different tones do. What I'm saying is if your hunting thick iron and say you have a reactivity on 3 leave it alone and don't be changing it up and down ..... WHY because it changes the little nuance of how the machine behaves and you will NEVER be able to figure them out if you always changing them .Same thing goes for tones too learn how you have it setup very well then you change later if you NEED to for a reason.. I know your trying to figure the machine out and that's great your doing great but the nuances in the tones is where its at so be careful changing settings. Heres my rule of thumb reactivity of 2 for gen iron hunting and 3 for thick iron and I never change from that why because I learned how the machine behaves with those 2 settings. just my 2 cents. Of course with all that being said you have to have the machine setup to suit your needs and looks like your on the right path for figuring that out!

Great tips man! I’ll try your program and CT TODD as well. Hopefully I can pick some coins up with it.

 

[txop]

I am new also and just wondering about different hunt styles. Gannon it looks like you may be a coin hunter from reading your post as where I know Calabash is mainly a relic hunter. I have been watching a ton of videos and read the same book as you.


My question is really to Calabash. If you were primarily a coin hunter would you use different settings than you use for relic hunting? I am a coin hunter and just want to make sure your advice pertains to coin hunters as well. I hunt mostly in trashy parks. Probably not as much iron as you hunt in.

 

[Lodge Scent]

You ask a lot of good questions there Gannon. One question that I will address is the low reactivity. Low Reactivity will definitely elongate the signal tone as compared to using high Reactivity. I often hunt with Reactivity of 1. You definitely get more depth and hit deeper targets with lower R settings EXCEPT when you are in heavy trash or iron. For those badly masked targets you do need a bit more Reactivity. But if you want max depth, hunting with R=0 in clean, lightly mineralized ground is fine.

Like Calabash, I also got away from Full Tones/0 Disc a couple of years ago. I usually run a Multi Tones program with Disc around 8-10 and Iron Volume at 2-3. Your Deep Program looks fine to me, except I prefer the Multi Tones.

 

[Andy Sabisch]

Calabash uses settings geared for relic hunting and not so much geared for differentiating various types of non-ferrous targets. Todd Yerk's (CT Todd) does the same - he is not a coin hunter and the only coins he looks for are those from the early 1800's or earlier.

I have had Todd co-instruct at some of the XP Deus Bootcamps and his input is spot one . . . for relic hunters. Attendees have done very well when hunting the type of sites his settings are geared for. The same with CD . . . . his soil is far different than many areas of the country - I am familiar with the area he hunts in and my daughter lives in Charleston which has similar ground conditions.

Be careful about copying someone's settings without understanding the type of targets they are looking for, the ground conditions they have and what each setting is really doing. You might find yourself finding less than had you left the machine in preset. In certain sites, raw depth is the secret to success while at others, separation wins out and targets are really not that deep. Ground conditions (both the upper number AND the bar on the right will dictate settings just as much as the target concentration you come across . . . all too often I have people complain about performance and find that the settings they used at one site will not work at another site due to ground or target differences.

If you have specific questions on settings and your area, feel free to PM me and we can connect.

Andy Sabisch

 

[Architex]

That explains something I have wondered about.......why CT does not normalize.

 

[txop]

That explains something I have wondered about.......why CT does not normalize.

Just remember that if you leave ID Norm "off" the tone breaks will only work for the frequency you set them up on. This is because tone breaks have TID's defined in them. The TID's change based on frequency.

I guess Relic hunters don't care about this but a coin hunter would care..

 

[Architex]

And I'm a coin hunter, which is why I wondered.

 

[Andy Sabisch]

ID Norm - which is ON by default in V4.X and OFF in V3.2 - allows one to remember one set of numbers in the field but you loose information that shifting frequencies can give a coin hunter where non-ferrous trash is what you do not want to dig.

Also, it normalizes TID values to 18 kHz which for US coin hunters is exactly what you do not want since it compresses all the TID values to the high end of the scale and you loose even more differentiation between good and bad non-ferrous targets

Andy Sabisch

 

[txop]

The main thing that needs to be remembered is that ID NORM IS SET TO WHERE YOU LEFT IT LAST. ITS ACTING AS A GLOBAL setting. It is not saved as part of a custom. You have to remember to manually set it like you want for a given program. I think this is a bug. It should be saved or you’ll just have to have a good memory if you need it set differently for a custom program.

 

[calabash digger]

Andy is dead on in what he said about my settings they are geared for the relic hunter a ferrous non ferrous deal. Yes I can tell a good signal but don't have to be as picky as coins shooters. My programs are geared for depth and separation....

Calabash uses settings geared for relic hunting and not so much geared for differentiating various types of non-ferrous targets. Todd Yerk's (CT Todd) does the same - he is not a coin hunter and the only coins he looks for are those from the early 1800's or earlier.

I have had Todd co-instruct at some of the XP Deus Bootcamps and his input is spot one . . . for relic hunters. Attendees have done very well when hunting the type of sites his settings are geared for. The same with CD . . . . his soil is far different than many areas of the country - I am familiar with the area he hunts in and my daughter lives in Charleston which has similar ground conditions.

Be careful about copying someone's settings without understanding the type of targets they are looking for, the ground conditions they have and what each setting is really doing. You might find yourself finding less than had you left the machine in preset. In certain sites, raw depth is the secret to success while at others, separation wins out and targets are really not that deep. Ground conditions (both the upper number AND the bar on the right will dictate settings just as much as the target concentration you come across . . . all too often I have people complain about performance and find that the settings they used at one site will not work at another site due to ground or target differences.

If you have specific questions on settings and your area, feel free to PM me and we can connect.

Andy Sabisch

 

[Architex]

But it DOES allow, for example in my "Aluminum Sifter" program, to shift frequencies and notch out the same numbers.

 

[LTimedigger]

True, but you can say the same thing about the HF coils which don't normalize but still bunch the tones together which is the only thing Im not crazy about on them. I reluctantly use the 18fx on the LF and 28fx on the HF cuz coin shooting trashy sites is tough enough w/o switching fz's plus the deus just doesn't lock nickels as tightly on the lower fzs. I enjoy the challenge of coin hunting but sometimes getting to go relic hunting is like a vacation(smile)

 

[Gannon]

Calabash uses settings geared for relic hunting and not so much geared for differentiating various types of non-ferrous targets. Todd Yerk's (CT Todd) does the same - he is not a coin hunter and the only coins he looks for are those from the early 1800's or earlier.

I have had Todd co-instruct at some of the XP Deus Bootcamps and his input is spot one . . . for relic hunters. Attendees have done very well when hunting the type of sites his settings are geared for. The same with CD . . . . his soil is far different than many areas of the country - I am familiar with the area he hunts in and my daughter lives in Charleston which has similar ground conditions.

Be careful about copying someone's settings without understanding the type of targets they are looking for, the ground conditions they have and what each setting is really doing. You might find yourself finding less than had you left the machine in preset. In certain sites, raw depth is the secret to success while at others, separation wins out and targets are really not that deep. Ground conditions (both the upper number AND the bar on the right will dictate settings just as much as the target concentration you come across . . . all too often I have people complain about performance and find that the settings they used at one site will not work at another site due to ground or target differences.

If you have specific questions on settings and your area, feel free to PM me and we can connect.

Andy Sabisch

Thank you for all the responses! Andy I tried to PM you an additional question but your mail box was full.

 

[CT Todd]

My program is 5 tones but you are only hearing 3 tones. You have an Iron tone a Middle tone and a High tone. As someone mentioned this is set up with IDnorm OFF. With a Deus your tone of targets is set by the TID number assigned to that target by the machine. So it is key to have separation of TIDs so that your targets don't all hit from 80-95. And I know I'll catch some flak here but I don't feel Full Tones is any advantage at all to the Detectorist. I'll explain. Lets agree that the Deus is going to start by seeing a target under the coil. Now once this target been seen by the unit it will assign a TID to the target. Now depending on how you have your tone breaks set or if you are in full tones you will then get a sound to your ears that is based on the TID that was set for that target. By giving a very positive sound for any target over a TID number point that you decide (Say 33 in the USA) you then know for sure that something is there That You Care About for Sure. The Deus is going to make a sound for the detected target Right? so why not make it one that you will hear every time for sure. Detecting along listening for a lifted tone is no help for you. You simply can't hear the difference between all the tones from 0-99 and know for sure what your digging. So why try. Quiet your machine down and deal with what you can hear and learn those tones. If you walk around for the most part in one Frequency then you learn the TIDS anyway for common targets. I really only leave 8 khz for an occasional iron check and the iron check doesn't work with ID norm "ON". I do change things for the UK when I go there but that's about it. Give yourselves a break guys settle into one program and learn it a-z. Stop with the constant moves from program to program. You will be happier and more successful Detectorists.

 

[Andy Sabisch]

Todd,

We have discussed the repeated questions on FULL TONES and 0 DISC many times . . . . and discussed it with the group when we have done the Bootcamps . . . . yet the question keeps coming up.

Use what works for the type of hunting you do - copying someone else's settings without understanding why they were set they way they were is a recipe for frustration. YouTube videos are great to see finds but often the settings are not what will work in another part of the country or for another type of hunting. Todd's settings are killer for relics but in a high-trash, urban park, not the choice that will produce the best results. That is why we spend as much time as we do in the Bootcamps stressing what each function does so that people know what to change when conditions change.

Get your machine dialed in and stick with the settings . . make a few tweaks if needed based on the site but trying new settings every week ensures you stay at the bottom of the learning curve since each change is like a new detector.

Andy

 

[calabash digger]

I started with full tones and zero disc and learned it inside and out and have killed it with it BUT....I have talked to CT TODD on the phone and forums about how to run the deus for relics.. I disagreed with him about full tones but then I started experimenting with some disc and cutting iron vol down (quieting the machine down in iron) and started seeing the benefits he speaks of.. I still use full tones to locate sites but when it comes to hunting thick iron I have changed my style. I am now using the pitch tone setup and will show a video of how I'm hunting it soon.. Full tones has a weakness and Todd is correct imo about what he says about the tones and not being able to them apart when they are so close together tonal wise.. The full tones will be pulled way down by iron on some non ferrous targets to where they almost sound like iron and that's the weakness of full tones. I can call targets with full tones because I know it so well and still use it with no disc to locate sites and general hunting but my thick iron programs have changed. I love full tones but wish it had a iron vol!

My program is 5 tones but you are only hearing 3 tones. You have an Iron tone a Middle tone and a High tone. As someone mentioned this is set up with IDnorm OFF. With a Deus your tone of targets is set by the TID number assigned to that target by the machine. So it is key to have separation of TIDs so that your targets don't all hit from 80-95. And I know I'll catch some flak here but I don't feel Full Tones is any advantage at all to the Detectorist. I'll explain. Lets agree that the Deus is going to start by seeing a target under the coil. Now once this target been seen by the unit it will assign a TID to the target. Now depending on how you have your tone breaks set or if you are in full tones you will then get a sound to your ears that is based on the TID that was set for that target. By giving a very positive sound for any target over a TID number point that you decide (Say 33 in the USA) you then know for sure that something is there That You Care About for Sure. The Deus is going to make a sound for the detected target Right? so why not make it one that you will hear every time for sure. Detecting along listening for a lifted tone is no help for you. You simply can't hear the difference between all the tones from 0-99 and know for sure what your digging. So why try. Quiet your machine down and deal with what you can hear and learn those tones. If you walk around for the most part in one Frequency then you learn the TIDS anyway for common targets. I really only leave 8 khz for an occasional iron check and the iron check doesn't work with ID norm "ON". I do change things for the UK when I go there but that's about it. Give yourselves a break guys settle into one program and learn it a-z. Stop with the constant moves from program to program. You will be happier and more successful Detectorists.

 

[CT Todd]

Your right about my program in urban settings. I'm sure you can do better when there's lots of trash around. Other than Iron trash I don't have to deal with normal trash for the most part. I've never hunted a park. My program is killer in the woods and fields of the North East. I only have one trip to VA ever and my program did very well there too but it wasn't a red dirt area of course. My last thought on this is that if a new detectorist would read Andy's book and then make the adjustments that will be needed in HIS AREA they will do fine. If your not a guy that wants to know the machine inside and out (and that's OK)
Then I suggest Andy's book anyway and grab a program or two from sites like this put them in and see what works in your AREA. Lastly if a Bootcamp gets anywhere near you that's money well spent. HH Guys

 

[smkunder]

Calabash , which video are you linking too that describes your new relic settings?