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New 11X8 coil
- Thread starter KyJoe
- Start date
clarify WHY you want an optional 8" Concentric or 8X11 DD over the stock 8X9 Concentric or a smaller-size Concentric coil, or WHAT types of sites you will hunt and the type and density of the TRASH targets you might encounter, I'll share my own opinions of many Tesoro models I currently, recently, or in the past have owned and my experiences afield with a broad assortment of search coils I have evaluated.
I have owned two Vaqueros, and three Tejóns, and a Lobo SuperTRAQ from their H.O.T. [size=small](higher-frequency)[/size] series, and have owned or used all of the Concentric and DD coils from Tesoro, except the 10X12 DD. I have also used the NEL Sharpshooter DD coil.
I have also owned or used almost every one of the 'standard' models they have offered since the 1983 summer release of the Inca. Many of these models I have owned numerous times, and I have used every Tesoro-made search coil on most of the models that I have preferred for the types of sites I hunt. I have also used some aftermarket coils from Detech and NEL, all DD design.
I most often search sites that abound in closely-spaced trash. Most of the dense junk is iron-based, with the biggest offender being the iron nail. Unless a detector doesn't adjust low enough to fine-tune it, I always hunt at a Discrimination setting to just barely reject iron nails, no higher. These sites are usually urban renovation projects or building tear-downs or vacant lots where structures stood long ago. Most of the time I try to get out-of-town and head to stage stops and railroads depots & sidings; pioneer and military encampments; homesteads; logging or mining camps/towns; and my favorites of all, old abandoned ghost towns sites, especially the very iron-challenging railroad towns.
From decades of my own personal experiences with many makes and models of detectors and both coil types, and also from experiences in training or demonstrating detector/coil performance in tough case locations or using proven, in-the-field test scenarios [size=small](mainly my Nail Board Performance Test)[/size] to include working three old RR ghost towns in May and September of this year on our 'Welcome-to-Hunt Outings', a few things have continued to be true. Using my NBPT with the Discrimination set to just barely reject the four iron nails,:
• The White's MXT Pro and M6 worked the best with the round 6½" Concentric coil even compared with White's 4X6 DD or the aftermarket Detech 5", 6" and 6X8 DD coils.
• The Teknetics T2 and Omega 8000 and Fisher F19 and F5 models using the round 5" DD coils worked the best of all their available search coils.
• The Garrett AT Pro and AT Gold worked partially with the smaller DD and Concentric coils.
• The Makro Racer and Nokta FORS CoRe using the small 'OOR' coil [size=small](about 4.7X5.2)[/size] out-performed all of the above makes and models and coils, with my new 'Classic' T2 w/5" DD being very close to the Racer performance.
• The Racer & T2 using their smaller-size coils out-performed ALL of the Tesoro models using a Tesoro 5X10 DD, and new 8X11 DD as well as the NEL Sharpshooter DD coils.
• The Tesoro Vaquero and Tejón, and my personal Bandido, Bandido II, Bandido II µMAX [size=small](pronounced microMAX)[/size], Silver Sabre II, Silver Sabre µMAX and more recent Eldorado --- ALL --- out-performed all of the above and other competition [size=small](such as the Deus and CTX-3030)[/size] using the Tesoro 6" Concentric [size=small](their 5.75-labeled coil)[/size] and 7" Concentric, 8" Concentric and 8X9 'OOR' Concentric search coils.
There is a very good reason why the six models listed below in my signature are all aligned on my back seat and ready to be quickly grabbed and put-to-work because they are all very good performers in any trashy site. Of them all, I am still very confident to just grab and use my trusty Bandido II first-off most of the time at any site [size=small](unless I feel I would like to have visual Target ID)[/size].
So, to conclude, my suggestion would be to get a Vaquero, or another very popular and great-performing Tesoro model, and use a smaller-size 6" Concentric for most sites with a lot of litter, metal fences or structures or confined areas to move about, then maybe just rely on the Tesoro 'OOR' coil for more open areas or to gain a little better depth in more open, sparse-target sites.
Monte
The stock coil on the Vaquero since it's introduction many years ago has been the 8X9 'Out-Of-Round' [size=small]('OOR')[/size] Concentric search coil. Recently, with the introduction of their new 8X11 Double-D coil, most models are offered with your choice of one or the other. The round 8" Concentric coil is an accessory coil you can purchase, not standard on a Vaquero.KyJoe said:
I have owned two Vaqueros, and three Tejóns, and a Lobo SuperTRAQ from their H.O.T. [size=small](higher-frequency)[/size] series, and have owned or used all of the Concentric and DD coils from Tesoro, except the 10X12 DD. I have also used the NEL Sharpshooter DD coil.
I have also owned or used almost every one of the 'standard' models they have offered since the 1983 summer release of the Inca. Many of these models I have owned numerous times, and I have used every Tesoro-made search coil on most of the models that I have preferred for the types of sites I hunt. I have also used some aftermarket coils from Detech and NEL, all DD design.
I most often search sites that abound in closely-spaced trash. Most of the dense junk is iron-based, with the biggest offender being the iron nail. Unless a detector doesn't adjust low enough to fine-tune it, I always hunt at a Discrimination setting to just barely reject iron nails, no higher. These sites are usually urban renovation projects or building tear-downs or vacant lots where structures stood long ago. Most of the time I try to get out-of-town and head to stage stops and railroads depots & sidings; pioneer and military encampments; homesteads; logging or mining camps/towns; and my favorites of all, old abandoned ghost towns sites, especially the very iron-challenging railroad towns.
From decades of my own personal experiences with many makes and models of detectors and both coil types, and also from experiences in training or demonstrating detector/coil performance in tough case locations or using proven, in-the-field test scenarios [size=small](mainly my Nail Board Performance Test)[/size] to include working three old RR ghost towns in May and September of this year on our 'Welcome-to-Hunt Outings', a few things have continued to be true. Using my NBPT with the Discrimination set to just barely reject the four iron nails,:
• The White's MXT Pro and M6 worked the best with the round 6½" Concentric coil even compared with White's 4X6 DD or the aftermarket Detech 5", 6" and 6X8 DD coils.
• The Teknetics T2 and Omega 8000 and Fisher F19 and F5 models using the round 5" DD coils worked the best of all their available search coils.
• The Garrett AT Pro and AT Gold worked partially with the smaller DD and Concentric coils.
• The Makro Racer and Nokta FORS CoRe using the small 'OOR' coil [size=small](about 4.7X5.2)[/size] out-performed all of the above makes and models and coils, with my new 'Classic' T2 w/5" DD being very close to the Racer performance.
• The Racer & T2 using their smaller-size coils out-performed ALL of the Tesoro models using a Tesoro 5X10 DD, and new 8X11 DD as well as the NEL Sharpshooter DD coils.
• The Tesoro Vaquero and Tejón, and my personal Bandido, Bandido II, Bandido II µMAX [size=small](pronounced microMAX)[/size], Silver Sabre II, Silver Sabre µMAX and more recent Eldorado --- ALL --- out-performed all of the above and other competition [size=small](such as the Deus and CTX-3030)[/size] using the Tesoro 6" Concentric [size=small](their 5.75-labeled coil)[/size] and 7" Concentric, 8" Concentric and 8X9 'OOR' Concentric search coils.
There is a very good reason why the six models listed below in my signature are all aligned on my back seat and ready to be quickly grabbed and put-to-work because they are all very good performers in any trashy site. Of them all, I am still very confident to just grab and use my trusty Bandido II first-off most of the time at any site [size=small](unless I feel I would like to have visual Target ID)[/size].
So, to conclude, my suggestion would be to get a Vaquero, or another very popular and great-performing Tesoro model, and use a smaller-size 6" Concentric for most sites with a lot of litter, metal fences or structures or confined areas to move about, then maybe just rely on the Tesoro 'OOR' coil for more open areas or to gain a little better depth in more open, sparse-target sites.
Monte
Monte said:
The Tesoro Vaquero is being offered with a choice of coils, the NEW 11X8.....or....and yes..... the 9X8 coil that has been standard for many years.
And yes "I did" ask if " anyone had much time with the new coil yet?". I haven't seen many posts about it. Including yours,LOL
Monte said:
You're preachin' to the choir on small coils. It's my favorite on the Racer
infested sites, and using every search coil they offered when I was a Tesoro Dealer ('83 thru '04) and since then to include just a month ago on a "Welcome-to-Hunt Outing" to three iron littered ghost towns in Nevada, the answer is YES.
Not just in a NBPT evaluation, but when put to the ultimate test in actual in-the-field hunting conditions in homesteads, ghost towns, encampment sites, old recreation sites, etc., etc. Side-by-side, all four of my all-time favorite Tesoro's work their 6" Concentric search coils against all the detectors I own or those I test, and against those in use by others I am hunting with. Simply put, they are impressive. Period.
Monte
My Nail Board Performance Test is an exact duplication of how an Indian Head cent was spotted in a southern Utah ghost town, Frisco, back on Memorial Day Weekend in '94. For over twenty-one years I have relied on this actual in-the-field encounter to evaluate all makes and models of detectors and search coils possible. I put both Double-D and Concentric search coils of all sizes and shapes to the test on a variety of models and, impressively, the Tesoro models with a Concentric search coil have proven superior to almost all challengers.liaso said:
Not just in a NBPT evaluation, but when put to the ultimate test in actual in-the-field hunting conditions in homesteads, ghost towns, encampment sites, old recreation sites, etc., etc. Side-by-side, all four of my all-time favorite Tesoro's work their 6" Concentric search coils against all the detectors I own or those I test, and against those in use by others I am hunting with. Simply put, they are impressive. Period.
Monte
And yes, I might be "preaching to the choir" but only to those who sing the praises of smaller search coils. With the Makro Racer, the 'OOR' is a must-have coil, in my opinion, and is the only coil I use on my Racer. I also keep the 5" DD on my 'Classic' T2 for full-time duty. Those two models, with Double-D coils, are a complement to my four Tesoro's which all sport Concentric coils .. three of them wearing their own 6" Concentric coil. All of these models are proven performers in dense trash, especially iron littered sites.
I have now worked with the new Tesoro 8X11 DD coil on a few occasions, on other's detectors, because it just doesn't work for me where I hunt. I used it on a Tejón and got the same performance as on a Vaquero ... ALWAYS outperformed by a 6", 7", 8" and 8X9 Concentric coil worked in very trashy conditions, and even in an open area with sparse targets and the 8X9 Concentric was as good or better on some of the deeper-target comparisons we made. But, most of my hunting is close to metal structures/fences and in very iron infested sites where the 8X11 DD just failed miserably for me and when compared with Concentrics we used.
I look forward to your comments and what coil comparisons you make. As for others, I know too many hobbyists tend to want "depth" and are succored into all sorts of factory and after-market DD coils, especially larger sizes, and they just don't understand or appreciate the value of smaller-size coils ... Concentric or Double-D. They need to hear the Small Coil Choir sing their praises.
Monte
I have now worked with the new Tesoro 8X11 DD coil on a few occasions, on other's detectors, because it just doesn't work for me where I hunt. I used it on a Tejón and got the same performance as on a Vaquero ... ALWAYS outperformed by a 6", 7", 8" and 8X9 Concentric coil worked in very trashy conditions, and even in an open area with sparse targets and the 8X9 Concentric was as good or better on some of the deeper-target comparisons we made. But, most of my hunting is close to metal structures/fences and in very iron infested sites where the 8X11 DD just failed miserably for me and when compared with Concentrics we used.
I look forward to your comments and what coil comparisons you make. As for others, I know too many hobbyists tend to want "depth" and are succored into all sorts of factory and after-market DD coils, especially larger sizes, and they just don't understand or appreciate the value of smaller-size coils ... Concentric or Double-D. They need to hear the Small Coil Choir sing their praises.
Monte
[video]https://youtu.be/k5rRGRSxHZ8[/video]
[video]https://youtu.be/myxUZ2NWGAI[/video]
Here's a couple of vids on Tesoro's site showing the new coil on a Silver Umax. There's several other videos under information, instructional. Also there's more on Youtube. The new coil has quicker recovery speed and a depth advantage over the 9x8. I use small coils mainly around my old homesites but when I get away from the footprint of the house the large coil goes back on. Looks very interesting. Amazing recovery speed.
[video]https://youtu.be/myxUZ2NWGAI[/video]
Here's a couple of vids on Tesoro's site showing the new coil on a Silver Umax. There's several other videos under information, instructional. Also there's more on Youtube. The new coil has quicker recovery speed and a depth advantage over the 9x8. I use small coils mainly around my old homesites but when I get away from the footprint of the house the large coil goes back on. Looks very interesting. Amazing recovery speed.
As long as you are happy using that coil that is basically all that you want,what works for one person may not work for another,me personally i do have 3 Tesoro unit with the smaller Concentric coils mainly for some very trashy roman/saxon sites that i detect on,one one site which was a military camp the whole site is littered with hob nails from hob nail boots and the only detector that i can use is a Tesoro with a very small Concentric coil on.I can use the 5'' T2 coil setup as well but i only tend to use big coils for specific sites and yes i do have some very big coils,but these are site specif use ones for when hoard hunting and locating the container which is usually pretty deep that a normal coil just would not pick up.
Coils are a personal choice of course,but also i think its down to the experience of the detectorist on when to use what coils for the site/s that they detect on,i certainly would not use a large coil on my roman nail site for sure,it would just be a total waste of time,then i would use a much smaller coil to get in between the nails to try and winkle out some decent targets.
The trouble is i feel that we are brain washed into thinking bigger is better and we must use the biggest coils going,i am afraid that is far from the trueth,what ever coil you choose good luck and happy hunting is what its all about.
Coils are a personal choice of course,but also i think its down to the experience of the detectorist on when to use what coils for the site/s that they detect on,i certainly would not use a large coil on my roman nail site for sure,it would just be a total waste of time,then i would use a much smaller coil to get in between the nails to try and winkle out some decent targets.
The trouble is i feel that we are brain washed into thinking bigger is better and we must use the biggest coils going,i am afraid that is far from the trueth,what ever coil you choose good luck and happy hunting is what its all about.
I agree the new 11x8 looks interesting to say the least! While I think the 5.75 coil is great for its purpose, in the wide open spaces such as sports field is where I would be interested in the 11 x 8. I use the Outlaw and am wondering if this big coil will be as sensitive to smaller jewelry as the white 8 inch cc.KyJoe said:
Not all coil shoppers because some folks have more experience under their belt and have worked with a variety of makes and models of detectors and both Concentric and Double-D coils in small, medium and larger sizes. They already have a fair idea of what to look for in their purchase decisions.
But way too many people lack real detecting experience and knowledge because they don't get out often enough, haven't tried to learn all the characteristics of their detectors and how both coil types can differ, and some don't know all the controls. Heck, quite a few have never read their detector Owner's Manual, or never referred back to it for better understanding of detector features and performance. All too often I see or read or hear about someone buying an accessory search coil simply because they THINK it might do something in their favor, or they HEARD it has some sort of magical powers or something, but they do not know how they work, the strengths and weaknesses of each coil type and size, and more-or-less buy because somebody else said so.
Have I seen this new coil and used it afield? Yes, I most certainly have.
Does it provide some decent performance? YES, it might, for the right person in the right type of hunting conditions, if it is used in a proper manner. And ... NO, it might not, if it is not the proper coil size for the site, or the proper coil type for a site, or if it is used in an improper manner. You should have read Mega's post, and now you can read it again with my added comments to his excellent reply which I just happen to agree with 100%.
✔ We don't have to use or like what others use. Just use what we feel most content with in performance.
✔ I have 4 Tesoro's and use the small 6" Concentric coils in the very iron littered ghost towns, stage and railroad stops and sidings, and other places I hunt that are plagued with a lot of closely-spaced nails and other small [size=small](to larger)[/size] ferrous junk.
✔ My Makro Racer w/small 'OOR' DD coil and my 'Classic' T2 w/5" DD coil can both work OK in these conditions, but they still don't work as well as my Tesoro's w/6" Concentric coils.
✔ I also have bigger coils, such as the stock 7X11 DD for the Racer, 11" BiAxial/DD for the T2 and 8X9 Concentric for the Tesoro's, but they only get mounted and used when I'm hunting sites that are more open with very little trash to contend with.
✔ Using the wrong coil for a site, or using any coil in an improper manner, is a total waste of time.
✔ Marketing and Sales seems to be what has lead so many manufacturers to start offering bigger standard coils, like 10" or 11" round DD's or 7X11 or 8X11 elliptical DD's. Even Tesoro's own move with their 'OOR' [size=small](Out-Of-Round)[/size] 8X9 Concentric as a new 'upgrade' to the standard round 8" was part of the same trend to try and entice consumers to buy their product.
✔ 99% or more of all the After-Market search coils offered have been/are Double-D types, not Concentric, simply due to the "trendy attitude" and it's worked well to push them out the door to detector owners .... even if they are not really needed or lack the performance people think they are going to get.
So, I am with Mega on this one. I wish everyone the best of success afield with whatever detector and/or search coil they select, and acknowledge that we all have different likes and dislikes, hunt different types of sites and deal with a wide range of challenges from bad ground to a lot of trash, and often iron junk that makes the challenge even tougher to deal with. We will all comment of what we use and what we like and prefer, but in the end it's all a personal choice matter.
Spot-On, Mega! I used the new 8X11 DD from Tesoro and it's not a bad coil for the right sites that are more open so as not to encounter nearby metal targets [size=small](good or bad)[/size] to a desired find that can mask a keeper, but for me and the majority of the sites I hunt, it is not a needed coil, or wanted to be honest. I'm glad they make it for some people, and more pleased they also make the excellent smaller Concentric coils for folks like you and me.
Monte
But way too many people lack real detecting experience and knowledge because they don't get out often enough, haven't tried to learn all the characteristics of their detectors and how both coil types can differ, and some don't know all the controls. Heck, quite a few have never read their detector Owner's Manual, or never referred back to it for better understanding of detector features and performance. All too often I see or read or hear about someone buying an accessory search coil simply because they THINK it might do something in their favor, or they HEARD it has some sort of magical powers or something, but they do not know how they work, the strengths and weaknesses of each coil type and size, and more-or-less buy because somebody else said so.
Have I seen this new coil and used it afield? Yes, I most certainly have.
Does it provide some decent performance? YES, it might, for the right person in the right type of hunting conditions, if it is used in a proper manner. And ... NO, it might not, if it is not the proper coil size for the site, or the proper coil type for a site, or if it is used in an improper manner. You should have read Mega's post, and now you can read it again with my added comments to his excellent reply which I just happen to agree with 100%.
✔ Be happy with what we use and the performance it provides us.Mega said:
✔ We don't have to use or like what others use. Just use what we feel most content with in performance.
✔ I have 4 Tesoro's and use the small 6" Concentric coils in the very iron littered ghost towns, stage and railroad stops and sidings, and other places I hunt that are plagued with a lot of closely-spaced nails and other small [size=small](to larger)[/size] ferrous junk.
✔ My Makro Racer w/small 'OOR' DD coil and my 'Classic' T2 w/5" DD coil can both work OK in these conditions, but they still don't work as well as my Tesoro's w/6" Concentric coils.
✔ I also have bigger coils, such as the stock 7X11 DD for the Racer, 11" BiAxial/DD for the T2 and 8X9 Concentric for the Tesoro's, but they only get mounted and used when I'm hunting sites that are more open with very little trash to contend with.
✔ Personal choice based upon a detectorist's experience is a key ingredient.Mega said:
✔ Using the wrong coil for a site, or using any coil in an improper manner, is a total waste of time.
✔ White's lead man at the time commented that he felt they made a mistake going to the 950 from the 8", and it was done mainly because of the cry for "more depth" and "bigger coil," and that was back in '88.Mega said:
✔ Marketing and Sales seems to be what has lead so many manufacturers to start offering bigger standard coils, like 10" or 11" round DD's or 7X11 or 8X11 elliptical DD's. Even Tesoro's own move with their 'OOR' [size=small](Out-Of-Round)[/size] 8X9 Concentric as a new 'upgrade' to the standard round 8" was part of the same trend to try and entice consumers to buy their product.
✔ 99% or more of all the After-Market search coils offered have been/are Double-D types, not Concentric, simply due to the "trendy attitude" and it's worked well to push them out the door to detector owners .... even if they are not really needed or lack the performance people think they are going to get.
So, I am with Mega on this one. I wish everyone the best of success afield with whatever detector and/or search coil they select, and acknowledge that we all have different likes and dislikes, hunt different types of sites and deal with a wide range of challenges from bad ground to a lot of trash, and often iron junk that makes the challenge even tougher to deal with. We will all comment of what we use and what we like and prefer, but in the end it's all a personal choice matter.
Spot-On, Mega! I used the new 8X11 DD from Tesoro and it's not a bad coil for the right sites that are more open so as not to encounter nearby metal targets [size=small](good or bad)[/size] to a desired find that can mask a keeper, but for me and the majority of the sites I hunt, it is not a needed coil, or wanted to be honest. I'm glad they make it for some people, and more pleased they also make the excellent smaller Concentric coils for folks like you and me.
Monte
Monte said:and more pleased they also make the excellent smaller Concentric coils for folks like you and me.
And me too! 80% of my detecting is done with small coils.
Sometimes you just have some real estate to cover in a target poor environment. The 11X8 and other larger coils has it's place. It's not an uneducated or inexperienced decision to use one in the right circumstances.
Yes, there are several reasons. Let me first clarify that I think the Outlaw is an 'OK' detector and ill, serve many hobbyists just fine, but there are, and have been, some very good to excellent models that also shouldn't be ignored.Kapok said:
My current working battery [size=small](regularly carried in my vehicles until it gets too cold and I get snowed out of good site access)[/size] includes my favorite four Tesoro models. They are the Bandido II, Bandido II µMAX and the turn-on-and-go Silver sabre µMAX released at the same time, and the newer [size=small]micro[/size]-housed Eldorado. Here are the reasons.:
Bandido II: Durable, still light weight enough and comfortable with the 6" Concentric coil, and there are times I prefer the 10-turn GB control to the newer 3¾-turn GB controls they use.
Bandido II [size=small]mico[/size]MAX: Lighter and handier than the Bandido II, especially for times when I might be working side-hills/slopes, such as sweeping over dirt piles or plowed snow piles in parking lots, etc. I prefer the mode-change toggle combined with the selectable Manual Retune [size=small](Norm)[/size] or Auto-tune toggle selection. Better yet, I prefer the higher-pitch audio tone for my very impaired hearing over the weaker/lower tone of the Outlaw. Additionally, I don't care for the pushbutton function of the Outlaw. That's a personal thing. On the bright side, I have to acknowledge the Outlaw is an 'OK' detector because it was based on/derived from the Bandido II [size=small]micro[/size]MAX.
Silver Sabre [size=small]micro[/size]MAX because it provides me with the same basic in-the-field performance of the Bandido II µMAX but with turn-on-and-go simplicity. That makes it handy for me to use or lets it serve as a "loaner unit" for me at times when someone doesn't want to learn how to manually GB the detector. Also, it has the more comfortable and easier for me to hear higher audio tone pitch.
Eldorado: Simple here, because it provides the lighter weight for me, the higher audio tone for me, and it also offers the full ED-180 Discriminate range for Zero Disc. hunting, and that's something the Outlaw doesn't offer.
Other than that, there's nothing wrong with the Outlaw, I just prefer the others for described reasons.
Monte