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New CZ 21...No threshhold...any suggestions

F

Furious T

Active member
I dont live near a saltwater beach, so last week I made a trek to one of the closer ones...took (amongst others) my recently acquired new CZ 21, which I hadn't used before....I had done a perfunctory test and it registered on coins ok, so I presumed all was well. Studied the manual on ground balancing, and when I got to the beach, I put it in Auto, but no sound....I put it in pinpoint to try to balance it in that mode, but no sound. The detector sounded off on targets ok, but because I could not get a threshhold hum, I could not balance the machine. I did find a few coins (10), but was not confident that I was getting the depth I should have been getting. I re-tried ground balancing several times, but no joy.
I was hoping I would not have any problems with the machine, as I live in Australia, so any suggestions/comments would be appreciated. Pete.
 
The true experts can correct me, if needed, I thought when there was no audio in the ground balance check it meant there was no need to adjust it was not needing to be corrected. In some ground conditions the quiet band is wider than the range of settings. Normally it is narrow with a plus report on one side and a negative report on the other and you wanted to find the center where you heard no report.
I am sure that could be explained better. And as I recall the manual says to use 10 in silent Salt.
 
Not having a CZ21 puts me at a little bit of a disadvantage ... but all the CZ's I've had have behaved the same. So lets try a couple settings. Turn the discrimination control to autotune. Turn the sensitivity setting up. On the CZ20 and both CZ6As that I have (and the CZ5 that I had) the threshold isn't heard until the sensitivity gets up to the 8 or 9 setting. Go all the way up if you need to. If you aren't hearing it, turn up the volume. Now if you still aren't hearing it, there is something not right with it and it should be fixed. If you are hearing the threshold; ground balance it, then set the discrimination, sensitivity and volume levels to your liking and go hunt.

Hope that helps.
tvr
 
Furious...make sure the sensitivity is to the max to generate a threshold that you can hear.
I'm loving my CZ21...wish I'd bought a second unit when they were cheap !!!

I also find that for my beaches, the GB is always slightly negative no matter the setting. I leave it at "1" as it most sensitive at that setting.

PM me if you need further help.

Tony.
 
Thanks for the replies fellas: I tried to get a hum whilst adjusting alll the different knobs to just about every different setting (this was at the beach). Am back home now, and will try all your suggestions. I really appreciate your help, and hope that I can get this thing going. I'll let you know with a new post if I have any joy (or not). Thanks again all, Pete.
 
I've gone over targets and messed with my settings to see how the machine changes to the target. As I mentioned, I leave my GB in 10, and when I hit a target I have tried putting the GB at 1 and then I scan the target and more often than not I lose the target. Thats why I leave it in 10.
 
Strollmasta, I hear what you're saying...I thought of burying identical targets at different depths and playing with the GB to see what differences, if any, but that would only give me an indication for that particular ground, not all ground or sandy beaches. If its working for you, you wont get any argument from me about leaving it at 10.
 
Having it ground balanced correctly is important because if it's not right you will get falsing and usually the first thing people do is lower the sensitivity to quite the chatter. When it could just need to be re ground balanced. Another thing that can help when you are messing with the settings over a target is to take the volume off boost, and back to where you get a faint noise from deep targets and louder from shallow ones. This way as your settings become better (or worse) you will be able to tell from how loud the signal is, and not just from whether or not you get a signal.
 
When all else fails go back to the manual. I don't think I answered you question and you seem to still be concerned that you are not getting a threshold tone.
The only thing I didn't hear was the first part od 2 Tap (and release) the Pinpoint etc. You may have done it this way and not had success, but if not it may be the key.

1. With GROUND control at “10” hold your searchcoil
6 to 12-inches off the ground. Make sure you’re at
least 3-feet away from any metal objects.
2. Tap the PINPOINT button and lower the searchcoil to
the ground. Rotate the GROUND control clockwise
until you hear an audio tone. Then back off to the
exact point where the tone disappears.
3. Always ground balance your CZ-21 in the areas
you intend to search, whether it’s on land or
underwater.

Good luck, Pete
 
pasttom, thanks again.....I started another thread with my update after testing....still no threshold sound, but...in pinpoint was able to ground balance....when I tried to gb at beach in pinpoint, there seemed to be no change in "noise" when I lifted and lowered the coil....after trying some of the settings in all the suggestions I got, I was able to gb in pinpoint at my home...your reference to a "band" fitted in with what was happening, not totally, but in some way. I have given up on the threshold, and if I can balance in pinpoint, then that'll do me. Beleive me, I have read and re-read the manual, and with what it says, and trying all the suggestions from forum members, I have at least achieved something (gb in pinpoint). However, nothing that I've tried has brought any sound of a threshold. Thank you again, I'm now hopeful that I'll be able to use it through this summer (Australia)...the alternative is to have it travelling back and forth across the Pacific Ocean for the next (however many) months, and miss yet another summer. The reason for that last comment is that I ordered (and paid for) the machine back last December (2014) and did not receive it until May (2015), so that was a summer lost.

Thanks again, Pete.
 
There is a U tube video on ground balancing a CZ21. I had similar problems, I know I don't seem to find as much with my CZ21 as I do with my Excalibur.
Not trying to start a debate just my opinion
 
Hdnsouth said:
I own three Fisher CZ's, 21, 3D, & 70 Pro. CZ models are silent search no threshold tone.
Click to expand...

Well mine has a threshold in AUTOTUNE.....usually kicks in at around the 8 setting.
Silent search in DISC then yes.
 
Hmm,
seems there are a number of CZ 21s out there with no audible threshold.....maybe there is a quality control problem at the factory.
 
Furious T,
By design it is silent search with discrimination set to any of the 0 through 6 settings.

In pin-point or autotune (both are all metal modes) you should be able to get a sound or noise (threshold), even if faint, and use that to ground balance.

I see where there is a mention of getting no change in noise when raising and lowering the coil in pinpoint at the beach. Over non-mineralized sand (the stuff some of us dream of finding), you probably won't get a change in the noise (threshold signal) as the ground balance knob is turned and you lift and lower the coil. But you were able to ground balance in the yard; probably some mineralization in the dirt that you are balancing to. Without getting my hands on the detector to check it out, I can't be sure what is going on; but the more I re-read the posts, I suspect there may not be an issue. I wish there was a dealer or someone with some CZ time under the belt who lived near you and could try your detector.
tvr
 
Thanks tvr, I appreciate your input and concern. I've tried to get a threshold signal (hum) in Autotune, using different settings re volume, sensitivity and ground, but still no hum. The succes I have had is in pinpoint mode, where I can get a noise to appear at certain settings on the ground balance scale, but in Autotune, no sound. It may be that there is threshold hum "in action" but just not set loud enough for me to hear it.

Again, I thank you, and I will keep trying...it may just "kick in" at some stage.
 
Think perhaps you are right Furious.

I have just pulled my CZ21 out of "moth balls" to see if the ground balance/threshold was a problem with me and not the machine. I put it away when I first purchased it when I found my other machines out performed it. Thought I would give it another go recently. My CZ21 just wont ground balance in auto, it just howls and chatters when put to the ground/sand/water no matter what is done. Unbearable to run it in auto mode. Have just emailed the Australian Distributor in Victoria to see just what can be done with it ???????
 
Thanks for your post Gundy, a bit more feedback is helpful (just to confirm I'm not going nuts)....Let me know how you get on with the Distributor....I'd be interested to know if it might be worthwhile to return it for adjustment, but then I dont want to be throwing money away either (on postage etc).
 
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