hihosilver said:
So, after three years of using the Golden micromax, and after trying the Outlaw (not overly impressed, but probably should have given it more time), I am now looking at getting the Tejon. Then again, as I didn't have too many hours on the Outlaw, maybe I should just buy another one and give it another chance.
Questions for you:
Q 1.. What things did you NOT Like about the Golden [size=small]micro[/size]MAX to cause you to get an Outlaw?
Q 2.. What do you think the Outlaw offered to get you to try it?
Q-3.. Which search coils did you use on the Golden [size=small]micro[/size]MAX and Outlaw?
Q 4.. What types of sites do you prefer to search? Are you only an 'typical' Coin Hunter? Do you do any Relic Hunting at very trashy sites? Do you hunt in more open areas that are void of any metal targets, or are more of your chosen sites trashier? Do you deal with very much ferrous-based junk like iron nails, washers, bolts, crimp-on bottle caps, etc.?
Q 5.. What detectors have you used other than Tesoro models that lack a visual TID display?
Q 6.. Have you considered any other makes or models, and if so, why are they not on the list you are asking about?
hihosilver said:
I like the depth that I hear about, ...
CAUTION! We often "hear about depth" but must remember than 'depth' to someone in some ground mineral area and target amount area and with a certain coil might differ from the results you might get where you are and the conditions you might face and coil you use. You often have to consider the source of some comments you hear, and when the Tejón was introduced in 2003, if I recall, it was especially 'hyped' by one or two people involved with its design. 'Depth' seemed to be one of the claims, and for some targets in some conditions, maybe it did ... but not for me.
I was a Tesoro Dealer. I acquired three [size=small](3)[/size] Tejón's and hit the road to travel to a Club Competition Hunt & Potluck, then to another location for a 2-Day metal detecting seminar, and on the loop back toward home [size=small]
(all of this travelling through Oregon, Idaho, Utah and Nevada)[/size] I visited a couple of groups of adventurists searching three 1860's era ghost towns.
I had detectors out for display and demonstration, especially with my friends at the Club Hunt and others I knew along the route. I put one of the Tejón's back in the box pretty quick when I noted it was very wimpy, with poor depth and kind of lack-luster performance in a dense iron demonstration. I continued my evaluation of the two other Tejón units, but when using comparable-sized search coils I could get an assortment of coins or small artifacts [size=small](keepers for most people)[/size] better with my Compadre, Bandido II µMAX, and especially 1½"-2½" deeper with my Eldorado. On a wide range of conductive targets, they were not 'deeper' by any means, although they did show a bit of an advantage on the US 5¢ and other lower-conductive targets.
Now, I am not a fan of the Outlaw, having used them and owning one, but maybe you could have given it a little more time afield to learn it better?
hihosilver said:
... but also think that duel disc feature would really come in handy,
How? Why? The Tejón had that feature because one of the involved people had been a Fisher fan of models like the 1260 X and the following units that featured Dual Discrimination, but for the life of me I can not think of a really valid reason why it would be of any significant benefit. The more Discrimination we use, the fewer targets we are going to recover or investigate so the more savvy and more Avid Detectorist would want to search with a minimum Disc. setting to just barely reject a problem target, such as Iron nails. That's what the
'Beep - DIG!' principle is all about.
hihosilver said:
... especially when looking for the deeper coins.
How could extra Disc, adjustment help you find 'deeper coins?' Not logical to me as you would keep the Discrimination low to better process the ground mineral signal and some iron in order to eliminate some masking, process more mineralized soil and, if lucky, gain a slight amount of depth. But I am not so over-eager to harp on detection depth because while some desired finds might be a little deeper in some locations, most just aren't. More are masked than deeper and we have to handle that condition before trying to increase depth.
hihosilver said:
Pinenut, and anyone else who would care to offer insight, with the Tejon being very sensitive to small iron as you say, will these things not disc out?
The Tejón, due to the operating frequency, might be more sensitive to lower-conductive non-ferrous targets. As for dealing with iron, I found the Tejón to be a little noisier when trying to reject some common iron, such as nails, and I haven't done as well with a Tejón when it comes to unmasking in a nail test scenario.
I've used, and looked on as a friend used his Tejón, to check out my
Nail Board Performance Test on very uniform ground with no metal targets nearby. That was confirmed by using the Threshold-based All Metal mode. Using the 6X10 DD coil from a Tesoro Lobo SuperTRAQ, a NEL Sharpshooter DD coil, and Tesoro's new 8X11 RSD DD coil, the
best the Tejón could do once the Disc. was adjusted to
just barely reject the four iron nails, was get 1 or 2 digable Beeps out of a possible 8. That's terrible!
The only Concentric coil tested those few times was the stock 8X9, and it produced 7 or 8-out-of-8 hits. I did test a Tejón several years ago with a Vaquero using the 6" Concentric coil, and the Tejón also produced a solid 8-out-of-8 hits. Oh, I'll add this extra observation, and that is I found the Vaquero to get just about equal depth, but handle the iron nails a bit better or cleaner, and it required a little higher Discriminate setting on the Tejón to reject the four iron nails.
hihosilver said:
While the Tejon looks very attractive, I am also still considering the Vaq.
A good model to consider, depending upon what you are looking for.
hihosilver said:
I am hoping to join a nearby club (they meet at a place about 45 minutes away), and I am thinking that frequency shift will come in handy if I am out with a bunch of club members. With the Vaq, I can also pick up the 6inch concentric for the same cost as just the Tejon.
The Vaquero, with the three position Frequency Shift toggle might be an advantage in a Competition Hunt. I can't move like I used to, but I still like to enjoy a hunt and that was one of the main reasons I added a Vaquero to my own detector battery.
hihosilver said:
Yes, I have a few. One is to make sure you put in enough time with a detector to learn it's strengths and weaknesses and what you like or don't like about it. The Outlaw is generally an OK detector, but it has a couple of issues for me compared with some of my all-time favorite Tesoro models, so I let mine go as it couldn't replace the ones I had. I do know one fellow who likes his. We're all a bit different.
Two, give some consideration to building a working detector arsenal to provide little advantages as you might need. No, not everyone can afford to, but my income was meager back when I decided I wanted to have at least two and possibly three detectors in my arsenal to complement each other, and that was in '71/'72. Just had to get out and find more $$$ to help acquire another detector. Today I have a baker's dozen detectors [size=small]
(13)[/size] in my personal arsenal, and that includes some duplicates. I enjoyed my Nokta FORS Relic and mainly hunted with the smaller 5" DD coil in very dense iron trash.
But I like the features and performance I got from this 19 kHz model so much that I watched for any deals and bought two more, keeping a 5½X10 Concentric on one of them, and a standard 7X11 DD on the other for more open areas. Now, the Relic could easily bump my 15 kHz FORS CoRe, but I know that detector well and the strong points it provides, so it's a keeper as well. I mainly Relic Hunt older and very iron littered sites, but I also try not to miss too many opportunities to put in some Coin Hunting time in average urban environments, as well. I have favorite detector models, and favorite search coils for different applications, so I have a battery that provides me the grab-and-go opportunities I need with different models and different coils.
Even if an active hobbyist has 2 or maybe 3 detectors, they might complement each other well, and that would be better than trying to make one detector do-it-all.
Three, this is the former Tesoro Forum and Gary renamed it Beep-and-Dig which is rather fitting. The good old Tesoro stand-by approach to success has always been to use the most Sensitivity possible, the lowest Discrimination you can tolerate, then get out hunting. You hear a 'Beep' from a target that wasn't rejected, and you
'DIG!' to recover the target, then take a look at it and decide if it is a keeper or junk. Tesoro does make two models with visual TID, but I have never found them to fit the higher price tag they have, and they are more or less crude in the segments and display information provided as compared with what has been around and especially what is offered today my most manufacturers.
The
'Beep-DIG!' philosophy was more or less assigned to the Tesoro line because most models don't offer visual Target ID or audible Tone ID like the majority of detectors, and prior to the Cortés release in September of '01 and the two earlier Toltec 100 and Toltec II, they didn't offer any TID models. But having the audio and visual information does not mean you have to rely on it or demand a perfect TID response. Instead, you can have those modern features, but use them at your discretion or just as a glance for a bit of info, but still hunt the way I do, and that is use the
'Beep-DIG!' method.
Most of my detectors, as noted in my Signature, are more modern/current models and feature TID, but I don't rely on it. I keep my Discrimination low, to just barely accept iron nails or at times to just barely reject iron nails, then I hunt-and-dig. Pretty simple and quite successful. So my suggestion here is consider the Tesoro Vaquero as well, I have one now and even though it is not one of my favorite Tesoro's, it can serve a purpose. Also, I would encourage you to consider other models from competitive brands.
And whatever you do, put in enough time to know the goods and bads before you let one go, or keep it and just add to your arsenal.
Monte
