Noise Cancel Question

[TomH]

Folks,

I am a bit confused about the Noise Cancel process. In the Safari owners' manual in the drawing on page 27 it seems to indicate that you hold the coil parallel to the ground and about 12 inches above the surface when performing the Noise Cancel sequence. In Andy's oustanding book it says to place the coil on the ground when performing the sequence (page 39).

Which method (on ground/12 inches above gorund) do you folks use?

Is there a benefit/detriment to either?

Thanks in advance,
TomH

 

[ngrelic]

I set the coil on the ground, just because Andy, and others, said that's how it is done. Supposed to get better ground balance, I think. Sure does seem to work well.

 

[zeekeys]

Hi TomH
I have used both ways. Andy's book is for the Quattro. I have no idea how different the Quattro is from the Safari, but maybe when the quattro came out, noise cancel was done on the ground? Only guessing??? I have ended up using the 12" above the ground. Not for any real reason but because of the manual. I think that if you are going to have any EMI to cancel out your coil probably should be up in the air???? Only guessing??? I know this doesn't help but if you try both ways and have a noisy detector from one method try the other..... Z

 

[Tinfoil]

n/t

 

[ronaldj2]

n/t

 

[dan h]

The Safari manual states the coil should not be near metal before pressing Noise Cancel. The only way to be sure of no nearby metal is to raise the coil out of detection range of any metal that might be under the surface. (Sabisch's Quattro book differs on this point.) You don't want an automatic ground balancing system to track on metal as it self-adjusts the circuit and maybe there is an analogous concern here, not to have Noise Cancel track on any metal items as it adjusts for EMF and other spurious signals.

 

[Ray in WA]

I don't really know if either way is wrong. When I first got my Safari, I did what Andy suggested in his book and put the coil to the ground to noise cancel. I just found a patch of clean ground so as not to worry about any metal. But then I saw in the Safari manual that the coil looks to be about a foot above the ground when noise cancelling. So I've been doing it that way either since. But either way I've found coins and other stuff. So, perhaps it really doesn't make a difference so long as one doesn't noise cancel over or near any metal items.

Ray

 

[zeekeys]

Hi All
Enjoy reading your posts Tinfoil, Ron, Ray, Dan and ngrelic now I am sure we have really confused TomH. I kind of agree with Ray but if the Safari really gets noisy and can't do anything with it I will side with Tinfoil and try his method. As you can see it is a versatile detector........Z

 

[TomH]

... now I am sure we have really confused TomH.

Yes you have, but I don't mind, I'm frequently confused Thanks for all the input folks.

I asked because I was out in a field west of Gettysburg on Sunday with a buddy that uses a Fisher F75 and finds some amazingly deep targets. We were listening to each other's targets to help me learn the sounds made by my Safari. The soil was a bit mineralized and it was extremely confusing, especially since my friend found several revolver bullets that sounded on his machine just like deep iron signals. One of his targets that I checked was a shot Colt Pocket Revolver bullet (.31 cal) and on the first couple of sweeps I could hear nothing! I noise cancelled with the coil in the air and started to get a real iffy signal. Having recently gotten a copy of Andy's book, I remembered that he stated that the sequence is performed with the coil on the ground so I tried it that way. Lo and behold, all the sounds seemed to get much sharper and better defined, and in the middle of the noise was a clear lead signal and a nice 33 reading! We dug the hole and there was the revolver bullet at about 8 inches.

Prior to that I had found a contemporary 1/4 inch shotgun pellet that appears to be made of a tungsten alloy (environmentally safe bird shot used here in PA) at more than 6 inches after doing an in-the-air noise cancel.

BTW: I am a novice detectorist and have always used Minelab detectors, starting with a Musketeer Advantage, then an X-Terra-50 and now the Safari. I collect Bullets, Cartridges and Firearms of the American Civil War and have done so for some time but did not get into detecting until I moved to G'Burg about 6 years ago. Most of my bullet/cartridge collection can be viewed at www.baymediapro.com/collection and I am the co-owner of the website www.civilwarprojectiles.com, an online community of small arms and artillery collectors with an interactive forum and some of the nicest and most knowledgeable people in the ACW relic collecting community onboard. Come visit us.

Thanks again,
Tom Henrique

 

[Elton]

Partial Quote I asked because I was out in a field west of Gettysburg on Sunday with a buddy that uses a Fisher F75 and finds some amazingly deep targets. We were listening to each other's targets to help me learn the sounds made by my Safari. The soil was a bit mineralized and it was extremely confusing, especially since my friend found several revolver bullets that sounded on his machine just like deep iron signals. One of his targets that I checked was a shot Colt Pocket Revolver bullet (.31 cal) and on the first couple of sweeps I could hear nothing!

[size=large]Clarify please.Your saying his F75 hit targets you could not.. Or your saying his F75 hit iron sounding targets..that should have read as better targets ???

If he hadn't dug iron targets they would have been missed, and Safari would have given good signal..or Safari would have missed them ?????[/size]??

 

[TomH]

Elton,

The F75 showed the target as an iron signal but the tone broke up and, from experience, my buddy knew that indicated a deeper or smaller bullet. On the Safari it blanked out while using Relic Mode and gave me a small iron signal (deep tone/-10) on all metal. Once I did the noise cancel with the coil on the ground the signal changed to higher tone/33, which for me is generally a minie ball. It was still an iffy signal but definitely one that I would dig.

Hope this clarifies...

Tom Henrique

 

[Elton]

n/t

 

[zeekeys]

Hi all,
Again thanks El for the question. TomH thanks for the fine answer and backing Tinfoil. I guess I will be noise cancelling on the ground. Tinfoil don't give up on me. I don't mean to be disrespectful. It is sometimes hard to get through to me. I have been told many times I live in my own little world and I usually don't listen to anyone younger than me.
Thanks for some information I can actually use in the field.....Z

 

[ngrelic]

That's why I chose the Safari over the F75. Better discrimination in bad ground. Depth seems to be about the same.

 

[Richard@BackwoodsDetectors]

I haven't used the Safari yet on the beach but I have the Quattro. I put the coil on the wet sand and hit noise cancel and it worked super... Detector ran smooth and targets were extremely deep... I may be wrong but I think that ML encourages which ever way gets the best results... I prefer Noise Cancelling on the ground...seems to work for me the best... Best to all, Richard

 

[diggetdawg]

i really believe that if it were not for beaches, the quattro is really inferior machine for the $ spent. it sucks in trash areas where you just know there is a lot of goodies like in the grass area of the long beach grand prix after they dismantle the bleachers etc. might as well have the headphones off and the volume on 0 , about the same results unless u want to spend 45 min. on a 10x10 area better off with $ 99.00 bounty hunter. I have 2 minelab machines the other is a eureka gold..... ignores hot rocks my a...... i have fallen for all the bs hype for the last time. my info will come from users from now on. no more mags. no more books, no more full page ads. no offence to andy for if it were not for his book ...... put it this way not impressed with minelab so far. if their machines were as good as their hype i would be buying a 4500 like now. ignores hot rocks..... what a joke. &when i bought the quattro they didnt say it used the proccesor from a pong video game. what the hell it's all good in love & sales. be carefull out there. spend your hard earned cash carefully, do as i say not as i do. good luck to u all

 

[ngrelic]

Can't comment on the Quattro, never used one, but my Safari has been very good to me so far. It's been said alot on this forum, "you have to learn the machine". When I was looking to upgrade from my xterra 50 I was told the the Quattro was slow on recovery and the new Safari adressed that problem, just like the Explorer SE adressed the same thing with previous models. The Safari is pretty quick to recover, I've owned faster machines and I've owned slower.

 

[Onus]

I put my coil on the ground to balance, but sometimes it is hard to find a spot with no metal. If I have the sensitivity set on auto, it will still pick up targets from 10 -11" in the air! So, that doesn't work in an area with a lot of trash. On my Safari the auto mode always shows max or 20 on the sensitivity scale. Is that normal in the auto mode? Always set on 20? Onus

 

[ronaldj2]

I thought auto mode changes with ground conditions automatically while you detect. Can someone shed a little light on this? Ron

 

[zeekeys]

The way I understand it is that the noise cancel will look for the least noisy frequency and pick that one. But if still noisy you go in and lower the sensitivity manually.
Please don't take that to the bank... What the heck do I know? I m not even from this world.......Z