Nukbers Sum

[dsurcy]

I guess my less than six months experience is hindering me...
and I know it.. I have learned to slow things down.. just can't
seem to "find" targets when I try increasing sens. past 20-21 manual.

When you say it takes a minute.. do you acutally mean that you
spend around a minute to pinpoint?! Can you explain your technique
of pinpointing without using the pinpoint mode?! I tried the waggle
while in detect mode while pulling the coil towards me.. and digging
at the top edge of the coil... but.. I was digging a lot of holes..
errr... empty holes that is.. I went to the pinpoint mode and Xing
and do close to 100% finds as long as I keep sens. at 20-21 or below.

I'm not planning on giving up... that's why I ask so many dumb questions.. having all of this experience here on the forums is
very nice indeed.. it has gotten me past many of my "newbie"
struggles..

I appreciate your response and information.. obviously.. I should
just keep the sens. around 20-21 or lower and keep on truckin'...
but.. I can't help.. "trying" things once in a while.. I just feel
it is important to get as much depth as possible.. for that silver.

Thanks again.. I will not give up.. I like the learning and
experimentation part of all of this anyway.. I may seem like I'm
complaining sometimes.. but, I'm not.. just trying to learn.

Dan

 

[dsurcy]

Do you find that the more sensitivity you give it.. the slower you have to sweep.. it is hard for us "newbies" to understand just how
SLOW you must go.. I keep slowing down to make sure I hear the threshold return.. and it is absolutely amazing just how SLOW you
go.. and you start hearing "targets" rather than a bunch of noise..
am I on track here.. or in left field again.. it seems like a golf
swing.. if you slow it down.. it works much better.. but it is such
a hard thing to remember and do..

 

[dsurcy]

Glenn,

Oh... if I understand this correctly then I was mistakenly thinking
that an increase in sensitivity was an increase in the detection pattern transmitted by the unit.. and therefore more and deeper targets would be in the range.. but this seems to indicate that the same detection pattern is always present.. it is just a matter of us telling the unit to allow more or less through to us.. by adjusting
sensitivity.. did I understand this correctly? I'm just trying to make sure I know what I'm doing when I make these adjustments.. it helps me "visualize" what is going on..

I'm willing to put up with undesirable responses.. if I can tell the difference somehow.. but.. I suppose that would be unreasonable to expect.. at this point... I'm not experienced enough to recognize when I have created an unstable condition.. or if I have created a
condition that is allowing me to hear/see more targets?!

Let see if I've got the relationship to gain and deep firmed up in my mind...
GAIN will increase (bump up) all responses to a degree.. from weaker to stronger..
DEEP will increase weaker signals (at some point/threshold)..to help us hear/see those deeper/fainter targets... correct?

I appreciate your response.. I'm getting there.. I believe.

Dan

 

[dsurcy]

I see.. the gain is a notched increase in volume.. so that deeper/fainter targets are louder, but, still not as loud as
the shallower/stronger signals.. so there IS still a variance
in faint to strong signals.. correct.. but the notched increase
is still there.. until the max volume is reached.. which makes
them equal?! correct?!

Where DEEP only increases/notches the volume on fainter/deeper
targets... at some predetermined level of "faintness".. then past
that predetermined level of "faintness".. all things become equal again?!

Whew!! I'm not quite sure I know what I just said... but.. I know
what I'm thinking...

Thanks,
Dan

 

[dsurcy]

Hmmm.. interesting.. and a good thing for me to try..
maybe this will help me make sure I'm on the target.. and
then.. if I understand correctly.. you are clearing the area
and rechecking.. to get rid of any interference from trash
targets.. I do check the targets from many directions... I'm
probably spending too much time doing this currently... but...
I'm still in the learning mode.. so.. I guess it is time well
spent.. as long as I can get back on track...

I've been turning on pinpoint close to the ground to the side
of the target... maybe that is causing me some problems.. I will
try this.. when you say "just to the edge of where the target
appears...".. do you mean to the edge of the mid bar or edge
of the coil?

Some good techniques to try.. thanks.. I will try them..

Thanks again,
Dan

 

[dsurcy]

Yep.. I can imagine you get "fidgety" during those down times..
good time for good local research aye?!

I will try to be more patient while examining targets..

I know, I know... manual sens. 20-21 should be plenty.. I just
can't help "pushing" it once in a while..

No.. I haven't tried beaches.. but.. I have gotten into boating
and fishing... and with retirement coming up.. I have been keeping
my eyes out for a good price on a good excalibur.. lots of good islands around here... and other beaches.. the combination of
an excalibur, boat, beaches and retirement.. kind of gets me going..

Thanks,
Dan

 

[Cody]

The only problem I see with deep is it also amplifies shallow and surface bits and pieces of conductive materials. With deep on there are pecking sounds in some soil and or sites.

 

[Captain Kirk]

Dan,

REGARDING SENSITIVITY

It is my understanding that the strength of the transmitted field from the detector is constant. Increasing the SENSITIVITY just allows the detector give responses from targets that you were previously not notified about because they were below the SENSITIVITY threshold.

A WORD ABOUT STABILITY

Often people confuse lots of "chatter" with instability. In my opinion lots of "chatter" COULD (but not necessarily) mean lots of weak targets and not that the detector is unstable. It is up to the user to determine how much he wants to know about deep targets.

THE DEEP SETTING

Your understanding as you stated it is correct. Look at Figure 5.17 on page 54 of the Explorer II manual. You will note that all signals are amplified by the same "Gain" (Gain is the slope of the line.) until the maximum limit is reached. What DEEP does is produce a somewhat greater gain for the weaker signals without altering the response for the stronger signals. This allow you to emphasize the weaker signals without altering the signals of targets that are closer to the surface. This then is a non-linear response as opposed to a constant gain for all signals.

HH,
Glenn

 

[Captain Kirk]

Cody,

I agree. As other have stated, if you suspect a smaller target close to the surface, then you can tell if that is the case by raising the coil slightly. If the signal falls off rapidly, then the target is small and close to the surface.

HH,
Glenn

 

[dsurcy]

ahh.. I see.. so small shallower targets are faint and are also thrown in the mix.. so DEEP should be FAINT?! Just kidding..

 

[dsurcy]

Glenn,

I do believe it is getting clearer to me..

REGARDING SENSITIVITY

That is interesting.. not the way I was looking at it at all.. I was imagining that the detection pattern was increasing.. not that it makes a differences I suppose.. just that it clarifies my "visualization" of things..

A WORD ABOUT STABILITY

That is interesting also.. actually.. that is where I am with trying
to push sens. up some.. it seems to be "unstable".. but... if I
REALLY slow things down.. I can hear separate targets with threshold
coming back in.. it is a quick change from target to threshold.. but..
my problem is.. I don't find the target.. so then I'm back to.. I have made the unit "unstable".. or.. I'm missing something in pinpointing with increased sens..I sure wish there was a routine to
"prove" instability...

THE DEEP SETTING

By Jove.. I do believe I may have it?!

I do enjoy and appreciate the posts and info...

Thanks,
Dan

 

[dsurcy]

Mike,
This sounds like you are talking about my situation.. if not.. I appreciate it anyway.

I realize I've been given some very good advice here.. by some very experienced people.. I am very thankful for it.. even though I am hardheaded.

Don't get me wrong.. I have practiced my pinpointing until I am
confident with it.. just not when I try to "push" the sens...
When you pinpoint in detect mode (I usually hunt in IM -16.. because
I can't stand nulls).. how exactly do you do it? I tried the waggle
pulling down and digging at the top edge of the coil.. but started having problems finding targets (I can't stand not finding a target).
Do you waggle an X in detect mode?!

When the target moves on me.. is that the target being detected on the outer edges of the coil as well as the mid bar area?

I realize that I should be happy getting use of a 20-21 manual sensitivity.. and you guys have just about softened up this ole hardhead.... just about!!

As far as noise cancel.. I've learned to use this.. Initially I had missed this procedure.. now I use it every time I power up the detector.. even if at the same location..I dunno.. I just feel better about it when I do.

I keep gain at 7.. that seems to fit the range.

I have tried cranking sens. up... and then down until it is "stable"... I'm just not sure what "stable" is?!

I plan on trying all that has been offered here.. but..
could you expound a little on the waggle pinpointing method
in detect mode.. I definitely want to try it.

Hopefully all my questions are taking away from how much I appreciate all those that have the experience to share here.. I really enjoy and appreciate it.. I'm also amazed most of the time that so many are willing to take the time to share so much information.

Thanks to all,
Dan

 

[Captain Kirk]

Dan,

I have been hunting with SENSITIVITY set to 27. I think that less than 5% of the holes that I dig are empty. With good pinpointing skills the empty holes just rarely happen.

HH,
Dan

 

[Captain Kirk]

Mike,

I really appreciate your comments. I happen to think that the PINPOINT mode is one of the best things since sliced bread. I realize that it is a personal thing that may not be for every one. I can stand still and do the "X" technique (by rotating my wrist) in less than 5 seconds and then return to the normal mode and recheck the target ID. I do dig a number of junk targets, but with this technique I am generally not surprized by the target I dig. Just my 2c worth.

HH,
Glenn

 

[Mike Bearden]

dsurcy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike,
> This sounds like you are talking about my
> situation.. if not.. I appreciate it anyway.
>
> I realize I've been given some very good advice
> here.. by some very experienced people.. I am very
> thankful for it.. even though I am hardheaded.

Answer
Yes I am and Hardheaded works for me

>
> Don't get me wrong.. I have practiced my
> pinpointing until I am
> confident with it.. just not when I try to "push"
> the sens...
> When you pinpoint in detect mode (I usually hunt
> in IM -16.. because
> I can't stand nulls).. how exactly do you do it? I
> tried the waggle
> pulling down and digging at the top edge of the
> coil.. but started having problems finding targets
> (I can't stand not finding a target).
> Do you waggle an X in detect mode?!

Answer
I hunt in -16 wide open screen about 99% of the time, I can't stand a constant null either.
Stabilty is very SIMPLE, after you fire up the Explorer, do your noise cancel, after it settles down max out your sensitity or until you see the X hair start bouncing all over the screen then back it down until it becomes stable and doesn't bounce. The sooner you learn to NOT worry about pushing the sens so high the faster you will learn the Explorers language because to high of a sens setting will throw the detector off completely ... unstable is just that !

>
> When the target moves on me.. is that the target
> being detected on the outer edges of the coil as
> well as the mid bar area?
>

Answer
When a target starts moving on me it's USUALLY a piece of iron or trash ( even while in -16 open screen mode) or it could be a small coin spill too but you won't run across that many of them often.


> I realize that I should be happy getting use of a
> 20-21 manual sensitivity.. and you guys have just
> about softened up this ole hardhead.... just
> about!!
>
> As far as noise cancel.. I've learned to use
> this.. Initially I had missed this procedure.. now
> I use it every time I power up the detector.. even
> if at the same location..I dunno.. I just feel
> better about it when I do.
>
I keep gain at 7.. that seems to fit the range.


Answer
7 is a good number, keep it there if you can because the more you tweak things on the Explorer (starting out) the harder it will be to get a grasp on it's language.


> I have tried cranking sens. up... and then down
> until it is "stable"... I'm just not sure what
> "stable" is?!

Answered this already above Stability is the MOST important thing while you are learning the Explorer.

>
> I plan on trying all that has been offered here..
> but..
> could you expound a little on the waggle
> pinpointing method
> in detect mode.. I definitely want to try it.

Answer
Well, it's really easy, especially with the 8" coil. When you get a target, walk around and hit it at several different angles to see where it hits and sounds best at. Now, FORGET that pinpoint button and start approaching the target from the angle it sounded best at with the center of the coil while wiggling the coil right on top of the target ... until the sound "tightens up" as much as it's going to (with shorter and shorter strokes) and the target should be directly under the center of the coils sticker ... or within an inch anyway. Once you've done this a time or two you will never forget how it sounds. The Explorer will detect deeper than it will pinpoint with the pinpoint button anyway.
The ONLY time I use the heel of the coil to locate a target is when I'm using a big coil like the WOT 15".
On another note, don't hesitate to ASK away. There surely is some talented people on this forum, just look at the finds people make with the Explorer ... it's ABSOLUTELY worth the time to learn it's language.
H.H.
Mke


> Hopefully all my questions are taking away from
> how much I appreciate all those that have the
> experience to share here.. I really enjoy and
> appreciate it.. I'm also amazed most of the time
> that so many are willing to take the time to share
> so much information.
>
> Thanks to all,
> Dan

 

[Mike Bearden]

I like a good pinpoint on any detector, it usually means you have a quality detector in your hands. And you're right, it's not for everybody but it is a good feature to have on a detector, especially when you want to size up a target.
Your point is well taken though, I can't even fathom the amount of junk targets I've dug over the years, especially with a new detector.
But just like iron, junk targets can be your friend because for every one dug is a lesson learned
H.H.
Mike

 

[Cody]

I always use the pinpoint mode and have the same experiences as CaptKirk. Measuring the size of the target and taking advantage of the auto shrink function keeps me from digging a lot of holes the size of a tub.

 

[dsurcy]

Dan,
Wow!! I would like to to that point.. what is it you do to get such
precise pinpointing with sens up that high?! Do you pinpoint in
detect or pinpoint mode?!

Dan

 

[dsurcy]

Mike,
Thank you, thank you, thank you...
Very glad to know how to determine an unstable setting...
Now I will know if not finding the targets is just a matter
of having unstable settings with high sens. rather than bad pinpointing..and.. I will definitely give the detect mode pinpointing
a try..

Thanks again,
Dan

 

[dsurcy]

Glenn,
Never mind.. I see your preference for pinpointing above.
Dan