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OK Guys.....So what exactly is V Flex technology ?

MattR

New member
I was reading through the various reports on the new Minelab X-Terra's, and wondered if anyone has any real idea of what the principal V-Flex functional process is all about?

Who said single frequency methods were inferior to the multi-harmonic?

Maybe some thoughts on the matter will keep the 'cabin fever' at bay during the coming cold winter nights....MattR
 
MattR, good to see your post. I am somewhat curious about what data the chip in the coil communicates to the control box. It seems like they could do more than just say send me one of two frequencies. About the only thing that really interest me is can they do much about the changing Q of the coil from soil mineral changes that cannot be done in the control box.

Just between the two of us it looks like multiple frequency is wearing thin so time to start the round all over again. I think on my watch there has been single frequency, discrimination, VLF then VLF with discrimination, multiple frequency and now back to single frequency.

So, what do we have? An easy to use nice machine at a decent price that slips nicely in with the other Minelabs. Not much smoke and mirrors, no magic, just a good SF detector.

It is fun to see the repackaged units that are getting incredible depths on a coin. Haha I think we are up to 16 or so inches on a nickle and add a few super coils and we are now in the 2 foot range. Something to pass these cold days and plan for how we are going to go back over those worked out sites with our new super detector.

Any of this sound vaguely familiar?
 
Cody!..."Hello" at this late hour over here in the UK.

Outside, through my rain spattered window, I can see the Christmas lights are twinkling in the mellow darkness. My grandchildren should be asleep by now, and Father Xmas must be readying his reign-deers for the big push....Don't you wish you were a child again?

Alas, we adults can only try to recall the thrill of it all, and recollect the few presents we received.........I remember getting a 'cowboy' cap-gun ! A six shooter with three packets of caps.
After only a few hours out playing and popping-off every thing and body that walked past our gate, I dropped it and broke the 'hammer' off....Tragedy. Shouting "BANG-BANG" just doesn't have the same calibre......

Talking about Xmas presents...are you going to get a new 'Terra in your stocking? I must admit, Minelab are turning out new models at an impressive rate. Lightweight, viewable, attractive. All that a good detector should be, BUT.....What is 'under-the-bonnet'?

The majority of punter don't know and don't care, as long as it performs better than the one they have. Or, it fills a niche that the other wonder machines are too heavy for.

Minelab engineers are progressive in applying established electronics techniques to the hobby, but they are overshadowed by the hyper active imagination of their advertising sales team. It must be all the sunshine, and four XXXX's they drink in Australia!!!!

Whatever.."Good on ye, digger".

So Cody, what is this V-Flex stuff? I don't know specifically, and nobody is inquisitive enough so far to enquire. So let's get the ball rolling.

Minelab advertisers love pictorial propaganda. Words are reasonably specific, whilst 'pictures' are open to interpretation. So what is the 'picture' telling us this time?

We have a 'crinkly' sine wave symbolising ALL the other single frequency detectors, making them inferior to their 'smooth' V-Flex technology.

OK. Time to cut the 'Bullshit'.

REDUCED NOISE:- I respectfully suggest that is the thrust of this technological claim.

There are several ways of achieving this. Filters are one the most advertised solutions. i.e. Three, four, etc filter detectors.
There is a limit to the degree you can filter your basic composite signal, without incurring degradation to the actual data you are trying to extract.

One of the oldest methods is achieved right there in the search-head by 'tuning' the receiving coil to a single specific frequency.
This way you achieve a 'High Q' coil which reduces extraneous frequencies (noise, and out-of-band signals). Hence, fit your detector with a 'tuned' head.
So for any change of frequency of operation, you must plug in an appropriately tuned coil.
That simplistic analysis is sufficient so far to explain the need for a different head for a different frequency, but there is a more subtle factor involved. But I won't volunteer that now, otherwise there will be little left for others to contribute.

Once you have an initially 'cleaner' signal of sufficient amplitude, then the sooner you digitise it, the better.

So this brief offering is just a skeletal view of the Minelab V-Flex process.

Well..how successful a method it proves to be, will require honest, subjective reporting, by experienced detectorists.

The implied lightness, functionality and view-ability of display, augers well for its place in the plethora of excellent single frequency detectors available today. Minelab have a established a reputation for many good reasons...Bull' is NOT one of them, so keep your reporting balanced and objective, then we can only benefit..MattR
 
I think I have posted that my thinking is in the "cleaner" drive to the coil and matching the coil(search head) to the control box. I had not considered the advantages of getting the composite in digital form as quickly as we can then send it up the wire. I always learn much from your posts.

MattR, we got to shake the present and try to guess what is inside before we open the box, Haha The guys in the field will slowly do that. I am very tempted to give one a try for poking around in heavy trash. It will be hard to shake me off of a DFX and Explorer but it may be time to add the X-T50.

Have a Great Christmas
 
Even if we knew...throw in different mineralizations, weather, humidity, fast swingers, slow swingers, big coils, small coils and the like and we are back to square one..Personally don't have a prayer how my car works, but it gets me out hunting same goes for detectors old or new as many still excell with oldies but goodies. Heck actually think this one stumped some of our more technical people...so I won't even voice a opinion...Couples more months of cabin fever to figure it out....good run of posts...guys....
 
I am not an Electronic Engineer. Just a guy who enjoys the hobby and takes an interest in how stuff works. There might be some who will pooh-pooh this post for its elementary approach to understanding the X-Terra. But, that is OK. This is simply my thoughts on what VFLEX means to me.

I believe that single frequency detectors do have a place in the field. And, I believe that part of the reason that so many hobbyists have "jumped ship" to the multi-freq detectors is not necessarily because of the various frequencies provided by the detector as it is the inherit benefits that go along with the digital processing. Due to analog single frequency detectors not utilizing the same precise electronic components as digital multi-frequency detectors, there has typically been a noticeable difference in stability and sensitivity. An example of how electronic components can vary is demonstrated by those who rescaled their Sovereign Elite meters from the stock 550 to Ken's 180 modifications. By simply replacing a couple stock resistors with resistors of less tolerance levels, (and a new pot) you could not only change the numerical scale. You would also improve the accuracy of the meter.

I know how deep the single frequency Advantage will hunt. I've often thought that if the signal processing components of the (analog) Advantage were as "refined" as the (digital) Sovereign or Explorer, it would probably be more electronically "precise" and get more respect from those who question its integrity. Simply stated, digital signaling and processing capabilities (as used in FBS and BBS technology) allows for more exact electronic specifications.

Enter VFLEX. I like to think of it as a flexible-frequency VLF detector. Minelab apparently recognized that there are those who prefer to use a single frequency detector. I believe that they also recognized an opportunity to accomplish several objectives with the X-Terra series. By replacing most of the analog circuitry of the single frequency detector with "state of the art" digital and mixed-signal components, they could provide more exact electrical characteristics, minimize the size required for the control box, reduce power consumption and improve stability. By minimizing the use of analog components, they also minimized tolerance levels of the operating network. The small amount of analog components were redesigned and calibrated to achieve maximum sensitivity and stability. By incorporating a micro-controller in both the control box and the coil, you are able to make the single frequency coil communicate with the control box via a data link. The information passing between the coil and the control box allows the detector to recognize the characteristics of that specific coil and establish exact operating parameters.
So, if the control box is now able to communicate with the single frequency coil via a data link, and establish the operating parameters, why not allow the control box the ability to operate on more than one frequency? Simply a matter of providing hardware that can accommodate more than one frequency and drive it with software that allows the detector and coil to establish the designed parameters for that specific frequency.

So, to me, VFLEX has allowed Minelab to produce a smart single frequency detector that allows the user to change the operating frequency of their detector by simply changing the coil. The X-Terra is smaller in size than previous single frequency Minelab detectors, more stable and electronically more "precise" due to the introduction of digital technology and the minimal use of "specially calibrated" analog components. Being smart, we now have both visual and audio target ID on a single frequency Minelab. Something many "Musky-Hunters" have wanted for a long time! Since the coil and control box both have micro-controllers, the digital data link between them allows us to use coils of different frequencies on the same control box. One at a time, of course. Each specific coil and control box are matched up (over the data link) when you startup the detector. This digital process optimizes your X-Terra 50's performance for that specific coil, each time you turn the detector on.

Like I said, I am not an Electronics Engineer. I have probably misstated-stated something technical and I am sure I over-simplified most of it. But having a frequency-flexible VLF single frequency detector makes sense to me. I like mine and I'm glad Minelab developed it. HH Randy
 
Good post Randy ! Sitting here thinking about what you said brings up some more questions along the lines of what Matt posted earlier.

Since there is supposedly a micro-processor (or micro-controller) in the actual coils, how many different reasonings can we come up with for doing things this way ? These come to mind:

1. Are they changing something in the transmitted signal at the coil, and if so, why at the coil and not at the control circuits ?

2. Are they changing something at the coil in the received signal before it is sent back to the control circuits, and again if so, why at the coil ? (this seems to be the point Matt brought up, perhaps digitizing the RX signal as soon as possible rather than waiting for it to get back to the control circuitry ?)

3. Is this processor/controller at the coil actually reading variations in the coil itself and adjusting accordingly, something beyond just a switching of the detector parameters from one frequency to another ?

4. Why the use of separate coils for different frequencies instead of just making the full machine system "switchable" between frequencies using the same coils. Minelab surely has the experience of multi-frequency coils capable of such.

I think we are still in the early stages of seeing digital technology being used to advantage as you have pointed out, but also in reducing production and development costs and thereby bringing lower priced detectors to market, the Xterras, latest Garrett 150 and 250 Ace models, as well as White's Prizm line being just a few examples. I can only imagine what any of those particular machines might have been priced at just 10 years ago. We even have what most now consider as "cheap" or "toy" detectors, BH Wal Mart specials these days that would put to shame anything we had available in the 60s or early 70s.

Where will we be in another 10 or 20 years ?

Ralph
 
Good questions Ralph. As I said, I don't have an in-depth knowlege of the electronic characteristics. But, as you all should know by now, I do have opinions! My responses to your questions would be:

1. Are they changing something in the transmitted signal at the coil, and if so, why at the coil and not at the control circuits ?

Prior single frequency Minelab detectors (Musky series) did not have micro-controllers in the coils. By incorporating micro-processors in both the coil and the control box, a data link can be established that allows the control circuitry to identify the "requirements" of a specific coil and establish the operating parameters that maximizes the potential.

2. Are they changing something at the coil in the received signal before it is sent back to the control circuits, and again if so, why at the coil ? (this seems to be the point Matt brought up, perhaps digitizing the RX signal as soon as possible rather than waiting for it to get back to the control circuitry ?)

The received signal at the coil is totally different than previous Minelab single frequency detectors in that it is digitized! Digitizing the signal at the earliest possibility (coil) eliminates much of the RFI, ground interference and signal loss previously encountered by analog signals traveling along the loop cable.

3. Is this processor/controller at the coil actually reading variations in the coil itself and adjusting accordingly, something beyond just a switching of the detector parameters from one frequency to another ?
Maybe, but I could only guess that the controller in the coil is "preprogrammed" with the parameters required for that specific coil. (Hz, Z, I, R, E)

4. Why the use of separate coils for different frequencies instead of just making the full machine system "switchable" between frequencies using the same coils. Minelab surely has the experience of multi-frequency coils capable of such.

Well, the sceptics and flamers will say it is so Minelab can sell more coils. LOL And, you are correct in Minelab's experience with multi-freq coils. But remember. This is not a multi-freq detector. It is a single frequency detector that has the capability of operating at different frequencies, depending on the information received from the coil. In my opinion, if they made the same coil switchable between frequencies, it would not be considered a true single frequency detector. More like a hybrid of BBS, FBS and SF. With that scenerio, the control box would have to be switched, causing it to become the "master" and the coil would then become the "slave". Not to say that this may be their future intentions. But, for the current product line, it appears to me that digital electronics are incorporated to eliminate problems inherit with analog circuitry. Being able to change the frequency with a coil may just be a great "side benefit". Only Minelab knows for sure. But, having a totally programmable single frequency detector (such as the current X-50 with programmable notches, tones, VID info, etc.) is something that I hope evolves from this initial step.

I agree with your comments about today's technology. If someone had told me 35 years ago that I would be using a detector that does all that they do today; copy old plat maps to my computer and overlay a current aerial view; mark some of the better finds at my favorite spots using GPS coordinates, take pics of those finds with a digital camera, and then save them to a CD; call my brother on our cell phones to coordinate our upcoming hunt.... unbelievable.

And as to your last question.... Where will we be in another 10 or 20 years?
Hopefully out detecting. I just have to find that cache of old gold coins before I give it up! HH Randy
 
....the VLF/LF gold machines produced by Minelab, including the 18000, Golden Hawk, and current Eureka Gold that all had "switchable" operating frequencies of 6.4 - 20 - or 60 kHz using the same coil and which are/were technically "single frequency" induction balance units. The basis of the concept at least has been around for many years. But I think that fact goes to show there is more going on with the coil mystery than just changing the frequency. There are much simpler ways of accomplishing that, as Minelab itself has demonstrated in their own machines. It might be interesting to disect one of these coils..... :)

Ralph
 
Correct me if I am mistaken, but I didn't think the previous Minelab single frequency coils had a micro-controller in them. I was under the impression that they were analog coils and simply responded to the signals sent from the control box. If I am correct, then this data link between the coil and the control box is, indeed, a breakthrough in Minelab's single frequency technology!
I will leave the coil disection to those of you who know what you are doing. I can't afford to perform an autopsy on my coil and would be better served to simply enjoy what they offer. Being a person who believes that some of life's mysteries are better left for others to explore, I must go now. I need to go see what Santa left me! Merry Christmas. HH Randy
 
Digger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Correct me if I am mistaken, but I didn't think
> the previous Minelab single frequency coils had a
> micro-controller in them. I was under the
> impression that they were analog coils and simply
> responded to the signals sent from the control
> box.

That's correct, and was what I was trying to point out about previous machines that offered different frequencies....i.e. no need to use separate coils to accomplish such.

Have a great Christmas !

Ralph
 
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