OK, I Have To Ask...

[Smudge]

One of the reasons people say they love the Sovereign GT is that its a tone only machine with knobs and switches for settings. No screen to lie to you or to have to interface with.

However, I'm noticing more and more people here are using after-market TID screens on their Sovs.

So I have to ask, are the tones on the Sov unreliable enough that you feel the need for the additional TID screen?

I'm about to pull the trigger on another detector, so this is a serious consideration.

 

[Critterhunter]

Some are die hard sound only hunters, and of course the rest of us use the sound first and as the only real final answer on whether to dig or not, but the VDI can split hairs on say zinc pennies, indian heads, or other stuff versus say a copper penny, clad dime, or on up from there. All coins above copper penny are 180 on the meter, but it's the stuff below that the very high (highest VDI I know of on any machine) stuff that you can really split hairs on with a meter. Deadly for say ring hunting by avoiding specific tab numbers in an area and digging all nearby and other numbers. Also great for nickles, as they read a certain number below pull tabs and such. Yes, most of us love a meter, but for the purist who only hunts by sound there is NO better machine than the Sovereign. Other machines have as many different tones as the Sovereign for the conductivity range to judge by, but none of them that I'm aware of have the long drawn out rich "music" of this machine that can tell you a lot about a target. Warm, round sounding, soft, or just a "quality" smooth sound to it? Chances are it's a round object like a ring, coin, or old button. Harshy, scratchy, hollow, bangy, warbly, tinny, or so on? Then it's probably trash, and especially oddly shaped trash will have some funky/iffy sounds to it. This is a digital machine, thus the many tone alerts, but it has a long drawn out analog like quality to it that so many hunt-by-sound hunters of yesterday loved on analog machines. The best of both worlds. All the other digital machines I've ever owned or used, including the more expensive ones from our favorite company, have more short, processed, and sanitized audio than the Sovereign. It's one of it's biggest strengths.

 

[Rick(ND)]

The Tones are very good and some will only the tones too. The reason many of us like the meter is some of these tones are so close together it is hard to hear the difference, but with the meter we can see the difference. I also find with the meter we can see what we are hearing instantly to tell if the tones are trying to climb indicating a deep target. With the Digital 180 meter we can ID tones so must faster and adding the S-1 probe recover a target faster too, so you can cover a good 50% more area than without the meter and probe.

 

[Smudge]

I see. Thank you for the thoughtful responses.

I noticed at one time someone made a meter that replaced the speaker on the GT.

Is that one still available? Do you remember who made it?

I can't seem to find anyone who still makes an after-market TID for the GT.

Maybe I'm not Googling right.

 

[xwyokid]

I see. Thank you for the thoughtful responses.

I noticed at one time someone made a meter that replaced the speaker on the GT.

Is that one still available? Do you remember who made it?

I can't seem to find anyone who still makes an after-market TID for the GT.

Maybe I'm not Googling right.

I think that's ,"Ron from Michigan". Check some different posts you'll find him.

 

[deepdiger60]

Lets say your after just pacific targets on a beach the meter really helps at least to me it does because i can not tell the difference between different signals that are really close in sound well not yet anyway , the charts are easy to remember if not mine are laminated water proof i can just keep it in the hip mount bag if i need to look at a number to determine if i dig or not iam not completly sure but i think there is somewhere between 10 and 14 differant signal sounds the Sov gives out not including iron NULL ! HH. Jim

 

[Rick(ND)]

The meter that was built in to the control box is made by Joe Patrick called the In-Site Digital meter and you have to send in the control box to have it done by him.

 

[Smudge]

Found it. Thanks!

 

[Critterhunter]

Actually, I remember reading in this forum that some guy used a hi-tech audio frequency analyzer and found that the Sovereign generated more tones that the human ear is even capable of distinguishing the differences on. Of course our hearing varies from one person to the other, so even if the machine is capable of that the meter is really needed to split hairs on very close targets. I'll try to dig up that thread as I remember if from a couple of years ago. I remember whoever testing it saying that the audio of the Sovereign was far more diverse then what Minelab advertised, with more of an "analog" spectrum of tones then even other machines who claim to have more conductivity tones...Which is rare to say anyway, because there are only a handful of machines on the market (wish I was free to name names but I'll defer to discretion here) that even claim to have as high or higher tone variability than the Sovereign, but in reality this machine, due to it's analog qualities (but on a digital machine), actually is more diverse by what this guy said (from memory I'm going on here) than any machine more than likely. At the very least, even if that isn't true, the Sovereign still has more long drawn out detailed audio data to target traits than I can probably safely say than any other machine on the market. I've only experienced this much audio detail on a few machines, and those were without tone alerts, and those were analog or very primitive digital machines with analog-like qualities when they were making that transition from analog to digital in the late 80's/early 90's, and thus though parts of those machines might have been digital, they probably still had analog audio circuits...At least to some extent. As said, the Sovereign is the best of both worlds. A digital machine, thus numerous tone alerts, but with analog-like audio qualities, thus more target detail than the highly processed and sanitized and usually shortened audio of just about all other digital machines

But don't be fooled, it IS a digital machine. For a small example, there is no ground balance in discrimination mode. Don't confuse this with a pre-set ground balance on other machines that can't be changed, or auto tracking on other machines. NOPE! BBS uses a very different and deadly form of way to compensate for the ground signal that involves digital processing. End result is deeper, especially in mineralized grounds, and more true target ID at depth than pretty much any other VLF detector on the market if not all.

Bottom line...You are going to LOVE this machine! But ONLY if you give it enough time to learn it, and to like it. Only then will you see what this machine can do that all others I've ever owned, even machines more expensive, have not been able to do for me *in my soil*.

 

[Critterhunter]

Forgot another thing...The VDI on the Sovereign is much more "instant" than on some other machines that highly process and display the target ID in various computerized ways. For that reasons some machines have a lag in ID behind the actual audio of the target, and so some guys don't trust the ID and go by the audio when deciding to dig targets. But not on the Sovereign. It's the most accurate and "instant" VDI I've ever seen on a detector I've owned. It's so quick in that it's only putting out a voltage level of the target from the control box back down to the meter (some think the meter is reading the coil, but it's not...it gets it's VDI voltage level from the control box) that what you hear you instantly see. And because it isn't put through layers of complex processing software it's a more true ID of the target in some situations, where as just like audio on some machines when it's run through too many levels of software or electronics something can be lost about the "true nature" of the target in both VDI and audio. For that reason I trust the VDI on this machine more than any other I've owned. Also, all Sovereign meters have a calibration adjustment on them to set to 180 on a dime or quarter, so that if you change coils the ID will be right on, where as when using other coils on other machines certain IDs can be a tad off than they are used to. Even two exact same machines with exact same coils can be a hair off from each other in target ID due to variances in machines and coils, so by featuring the tuning POT on all Sovereign meters you've got an ID you can bank a lot of trust on.

Yes, all coins above a copper penny are 180 on the meter but when old coin hunting I just want to know it's a coin if it's super deep or in trash, as I've dug plenty of silvers on other machines that they thought were something else due to all these things including mineralization. You can still ID zincs, some indians, and other coins that are below 180 just fine. The only coin I really care about IDing is zinc pennies when I'm say clad hunting and only want to dig dimes and quarters and not the hundreds of zincs laying around. The Sovereign will ID those just fine for you. And as far as nickles go it will ID them well below pulltabs on the scale because it has such high resolution. Never owned a machine where it was almost a sure bet to know when I'm digging a nickle, and for that reason I'm digging a bunch of old ones, even buffalos and Vs, at spots that have been pounded to death by other machines. I'm not aware of any machine (?) on the market that will ID nickles in VDI so distinctly away from tabs myself.

 

[Critterhunter]

OK, been trying various creative search words but can't seem to find that thread from I think about two years ago where the guy was using some kind of audio spectrum or frequency analyzer and found (from memory here) that the Sovereign had more tone variances than what Minelab even claims, well beyond the ability of most if not all humans to hear the differences in. If anybody can dig up that thread please post a link to it. I remember I think when I first got my GT reading a thread like that which I don't think I dug up so it's probably 2 to 3 years old or so. Anybody? I'd like to read that thing again myself to refresh my memory on it and see if I'm remembering it right.

 

[Tin Fin]

I do use a meter from Ron, and I like it, but I don't use it all the time. Sometimes I end up relying on the meter too much, and just turn it off to see what I can do without it. In some areas, I do better without the meter, in others, I do better with the meter.

My hearing is all messed up, but by not using it all the time, I think I'm actually learning the sounds of the metals a bit faster. If it's a close call in my mind as to whether it is copper penny or silver dime, the meter reads the same. But the tones are different between them I think. Silver screams at me, and copper - not the zinc penny - has a different sound usually, like it has more tones in it where as silver is just as loud but cleaner in that it has a narrower range of frequencies I think.

There is still a lot for me to learn - but I do use a meter, I just don't want to 'have to' use one in order to be confident in my hunting skills. The meter really shines for me when it's a close call on something though, and for that, I'm grateful that I have and use one.

 

[Critterhunter]

If I'm water hunting (of course) or some times when beach hunting I don't use a meter. My water rig (original shaft) doesn't have a meter on it, so I just quickly the the box in my chest mount bag and hit the beach. Yes, it does teach you more about the tones without looking at a meter. I too sometimes can tell a certain "sweeter"/softer sound to a silver dime versus a copper penny. It takes practice though.