Picked up an O8 and love this machine!! I am following the directions for GBing the machine and am having a problem getting it done (still works great)!! I'm NOT getting the bars to appear when I have the Ground Grab button pushed. The numbers seem to go down but no lines UNTIL after I release the the GB button. I am putting it in AT and turning up the sensitivity until I just hear the audio. Is mine defective or am I doing something wrong. Anyone experiencing this with the 8000??
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OMEGA GROUND BALANCE PROBLEM
- Thread starter doberman
- Start date
Your profile says you've been away from the hobby for a number of years and just got back into it in August of '09. What I don't know is what makes and models you're most familiar with that have been in use the past 10-12 years? What make/model you last had the most experience with, or how familiar you are with manual or automated Ground Balance? Really, how well do you understand Ground Balance? You would be surprised how many people I work with every month who just don't understand it. they never learned it or had it explained, and many used model that had a factory preset GB and just thought it was supposed to work right. 
The Omega 8000 features a factory "preset" Ground Phase setting of '82' when it is first turned on with the coil away from any metal or ground. This is a rather high setting, to be sure, but it ensures that should someone forget to set a 'proper' GB for a site, the Omega 8000 will usually work OK, and not have the falsing problems associated with many brands of turn-on-and-go models with a too-negative factory-preset GB. I'm glad they made that design decision. Thus, when you turn the Omega 8000 'On' and start to 'Grab' a decent Ground Balance at any particular site, the Omega will almost always be reading and balancing downward from the preset '82' setting.
Realize that the O8K will read and analyze the ground phase rather quickly and, depending upon how briskly or how slowly you bob the coil, you might or might not see any 'lines'. As a matter of fact, if you follow the directions on Page 15 of your Owner's manual, it says to [1..] Turn the detector 'On' in AT (All Metal Auto-Tune) then [2..] Sweep the coil across the ground to find a clean, metal-free area to adjust the GB. The [#4..] step says to Press-and-hold the 'Ground Grab" touch-pad and pump the search coil from 1"-6". As I stated, the Omega utilizes a very fast auto-tracking circuitry so when you are sweeping the search coil to locate a "clean," metal-free spot, the detector was "reading" and analyzing the ground minerals with the sweep of the coil. Then, as fast as you can imagine, the Ground Balance setting is updated to the Ground Phase the Omega has determined to be the present average.
So, you might not see any bars (lines) because of the quick-acting circuitry. If you have rather consistent ground mineralization, you'll most likely not see many after you've achieved a balance.
As for seeing lines above and below the '0' reference line, you're going to see them if you sweep over ground that is radically different from the GB setting. You can then make a simple GB tweak to bring it in line. Additionally, if you sweep over a metal target you can/will get lines due to the change in the phase angle caused by the metal object. The Ground Phase is used in concert with the Ground Grab and + and - touch-pads to achieve a desired Ground Balance.
Make sure you use the best and 'proper' sweep speed for the conditions you're hunting in, as well as the search coil in use. A radical sweep speed can also cause some performance loss just as using a too slow sweep can. A friend of mine has/has had 4 detectors since he got started metal detecting about '03. He's presently counting 3 models in his arsenal and all four of these have employed either a factory preset GB or some form of full-time auto-tracking. he never learned or had a need/desire to understand Ground balance except once a few years ago when he had nothing but falsing at a couple of very mineralized ghost towns due to a too-negative GB setting.
Well, in about 12-15 minutes he had mastered using my Omega 8000 and adjusting the ground balance properly as he learned what it was and how to do it. Only once or twice did I notice any lines (bars) and those were quickly taken care of. It's easy-to-learn and easy-to-master GB with the Omega 8000 K. I believe the manual says to bob the coil and balance until you don't see any lines. It never said (at least I don't recall) that you would have lines, it just implied that you might.
I'm a bit tired this evening so if this wasn't clear, shoot me an e-mail.
Monte
You didn't specify what it is about the Omega 8000 that appeals to you? I always wonder about specifics when a very generalized comment is made. Care to share what you like about the Omega 8000? The mode you generally hunt in and the type(s) of sites you prefer to frequent? How about search coils? Do you only have the stock elliptical 10", or do you have one or two accessory coils?doberman said:
When you have finished the GB procedure, what is the Ground Phase read-out for your area? An "average" of a half-dozen locations, if you don't mind.doberman said:
The Omega 8000 features a factory "preset" Ground Phase setting of '82' when it is first turned on with the coil away from any metal or ground. This is a rather high setting, to be sure, but it ensures that should someone forget to set a 'proper' GB for a site, the Omega 8000 will usually work OK, and not have the falsing problems associated with many brands of turn-on-and-go models with a too-negative factory-preset GB. I'm glad they made that design decision. Thus, when you turn the Omega 8000 'On' and start to 'Grab' a decent Ground Balance at any particular site, the Omega will almost always be reading and balancing downward from the preset '82' setting.
Realize that the O8K will read and analyze the ground phase rather quickly and, depending upon how briskly or how slowly you bob the coil, you might or might not see any 'lines'. As a matter of fact, if you follow the directions on Page 15 of your Owner's manual, it says to [1..] Turn the detector 'On' in AT (All Metal Auto-Tune) then [2..] Sweep the coil across the ground to find a clean, metal-free area to adjust the GB. The [#4..] step says to Press-and-hold the 'Ground Grab" touch-pad and pump the search coil from 1"-6". As I stated, the Omega utilizes a very fast auto-tracking circuitry so when you are sweeping the search coil to locate a "clean," metal-free spot, the detector was "reading" and analyzing the ground minerals with the sweep of the coil. Then, as fast as you can imagine, the Ground Balance setting is updated to the Ground Phase the Omega has determined to be the present average.
So, you might not see any bars (lines) because of the quick-acting circuitry. If you have rather consistent ground mineralization, you'll most likely not see many after you've achieved a balance.
As for seeing lines above and below the '0' reference line, you're going to see them if you sweep over ground that is radically different from the GB setting. You can then make a simple GB tweak to bring it in line. Additionally, if you sweep over a metal target you can/will get lines due to the change in the phase angle caused by the metal object. The Ground Phase is used in concert with the Ground Grab and + and - touch-pads to achieve a desired Ground Balance.
Make sure you use the best and 'proper' sweep speed for the conditions you're hunting in, as well as the search coil in use. A radical sweep speed can also cause some performance loss just as using a too slow sweep can. A friend of mine has/has had 4 detectors since he got started metal detecting about '03. He's presently counting 3 models in his arsenal and all four of these have employed either a factory preset GB or some form of full-time auto-tracking. he never learned or had a need/desire to understand Ground balance except once a few years ago when he had nothing but falsing at a couple of very mineralized ghost towns due to a too-negative GB setting.
Well, in about 12-15 minutes he had mastered using my Omega 8000 and adjusting the ground balance properly as he learned what it was and how to do it. Only once or twice did I notice any lines (bars) and those were quickly taken care of. It's easy-to-learn and easy-to-master GB with the Omega 8000 K. I believe the manual says to bob the coil and balance until you don't see any lines. It never said (at least I don't recall) that you would have lines, it just implied that you might.
I'm a bit tired this evening so if this wasn't clear, shoot me an e-mail.
Monte
Monte said:Your profile says you've been away from the hobby for a number of years and just got back into it in August of '09. What I don't know is what makes and models you're most familiar with that have been in use the past 10-12 years? What make/model you last had the most experience with, or how familiar you are with manual or automated Ground Balance? Really, how well do you understand Ground Balance? You would be surprised how many people I work with every month who just don't understand it. they never learned it or had it explained, and many used model that had a factory preset GB and just thought it was supposed to work right.
Since last August (before the purchase of the Omega 8000) I have learned how to use an E-Trac (decently) - I am very familiar with ground balance - I have used many whites models of detectors since the mid 60's, including many manual GB machines.
You didn't specify what it is about the Omega 8000 that appeals to you? I always wonder about specifics when a very generalized comment is made. Care to share what you like about the Omega 8000? The mode you generally hunt in and the type(s) of sites you prefer to frequent? How about search coils? Do you only have the stock elliptical 10", or do you have one or two accessory coils?doberman said:
I like the Omega 8000 as it reminds me of some of the older analog machines and is very easy to set up - not lots of variables to have to wade through menus to set up - LIGHT - 4 separate tone modes - NOTCH filtering that's easy to select and use - ease of switching from discriminate to non discriminate modes - auto Ground Balancing with manual override and fine tuning - LIGHT - DEEP - easy to use - did I say LIGHT - have I mentioned easy to use and set-up - ease of changing settings.
When you have finished the GB procedure, what is the Ground Phase read-out for your area? An "average" of a half-dozen locations, if you don't mind.doberman said:
I'm in the Georgia north metro Atlanta area - will start logging my Ground Phase readings
The Omega 8000 features a factory "preset" Ground Phase setting of '82' when it is first turned on with the coil away from any metal or ground. This is a rather high setting, to be sure, but it ensures that should someone forget to set a 'proper' GB for a site, the Omega 8000 will usually work OK, and not have the falsing problems associated with many brands of turn-on-and-go models with a too-negative factory-preset GB. I'm glad they made that design decision. Thus, when you turn the Omega 8000 'On' and start to 'Grab' a decent Ground Balance at any particular site, the Omega will almost always be reading and balancing downward from the preset '82' setting.
Realize that the O8K will read and analyze the ground phase rather quickly and, depending upon how briskly or how slowly you bob the coil, you might or might not see any 'lines'. As a matter of fact, if you follow the directions on Page 15 of your Owner's manual, it says to [1..] Turn the detector 'On' in AT (All Metal Auto-Tune) then [2..] Sweep the coil across the ground to find a clean, metal-free area to adjust the GB. The [#4..] step says to Press-and-hold the 'Ground Grab" touch-pad and pump the search coil from 1"-6". As I stated, the Omega utilizes a very fast auto-tracking circuitry so when you are sweeping the search coil to locate a "clean," metal-free spot, the detector was "reading" and analyzing the ground minerals with the sweep of the coil. Then, as fast as you can imagine, the Ground Balance setting is updated to the Ground Phase the Omega has determined to be the present average.
I HAVE NOT BEEN TURNING the machine ON with the discriminator switch TURNED to the AT mode (will now be doing that - this is obviously one of my problems)
So, you might not see any bars (lines) because of the quick-acting circuitry. If you have rather consistent ground mineralization, you'll most likely not see many after you've achieved a balance.
As for seeing lines above and below the '0' reference line, you're going to see them if you sweep over ground that is radically different from the GB setting. You can then make a simple GB tweak to bring it in line. Additionally, if you sweep over a metal target you can/will get lines due to the change in the phase angle caused by the metal object. The Ground Phase is used in concert with the Ground Grab and + and - touch-pads to achieve a desired Ground Balance.
Make sure you use the best and 'proper' sweep speed for the conditions you're hunting in, as well as the search coil in use. A radical sweep speed can also cause some performance loss just as using a too slow sweep can. A friend of mine has/has had 4 detectors since he got started metal detecting about '03. He's presently counting 3 models in his arsenal and all four of these have employed either a factory preset GB or some form of full-time auto-tracking. he never learned or had a need/desire to understand Ground balance except once a few years ago when he had nothing but falsing at a couple of very mineralized ghost towns due to a too-negative GB setting.
Well, in about 12-15 minutes he had mastered using my Omega 8000 and adjusting the ground balance properly as he learned what it was and how to do it. Only once or twice did I notice any lines (bars) and those were quickly taken care of. It's easy-to-learn and easy-to-master GB with the Omega 8000 K. I believe the manual says to bob the coil and balance until you don't see any lines. It never said (at least I don't recall) that you would have lines, it just implied that you might.
I'm a bit tired this evening so if this wasn't clear, shoot me an e-mail.
VERY CLEAR - thank you
Monte
EXCELLENT and very detailed answer - I THANK YOU VERY MUCH as this will be very helpful for me as well as others - I will use the Omega 8000 over the next few days and jump back onto this thread and report my findings!!!
Okay, that's good to know. Due to the digital nature of how so many models work today, and the very fast-acting auto-balance the Omega is capable of, it is just so simple compared with models from (what seems like) light-years ago!doberman said:
Just remember to tap or make a quick press to the + and - touch-pads if you want to tweak it up or down a little because if you hold the touch-pad for more than a brief moment it will rapidly scroll the GB setting quite positive or negative. I love this detector!
Yep, it has ample adjustments that are quite functional, very decent depth of detection, and in case you didn't notice it yet, it is extremely LIGHT-WEIGHT and comfortable to hunt with for hours!doberman said:
Thanks. It's interesting, to me and I'm sure some others, to have an idea of what type of ground and site challenges others get to deal with. For example, even most of the wood-chip filled playgrounds I was hitting yesterday at parks and schools (and am heading out to hunt today as well) produced a Ground Phase read-out of 66 to 72. Some aren't all that deep and solid ground might only be 2"-3" deep to some of the better ones that had spots were it was maybedoberman said:
So your hitting newer older playgrounds?? You hitting the sand playgrounds with the 8000 as well??
OFF this 8000 topic - are you the MONTE that has an XLT program that I have read people are using?? Where can I get a copy - I just picked up a used XLT and really like the machine but NO WHERE near as deep a machine as the 8000 - but a REAL CHERRY PICKER!!
Thanks again for the GREAT ANSWERS!!
Dan
OFF this 8000 topic - are you the MONTE that has an XLT program that I have read people are using?? Where can I get a copy - I just picked up a used XLT and really like the machine but NO WHERE near as deep a machine as the 8000 - but a REAL CHERRY PICKER!!
Thanks again for the GREAT ANSWERS!!
Dan
Thanks. It's interesting, to me and I'm sure some others, to have an idea of what type of ground and site challenges others get to deal with. For example, even most of the wood-chip filled playgrounds I was hitting yesterday at parks and schools (and am heading out to hunt today as well) produced a Ground Phase read-out of 66 to 72. Some aren't all that deep and solid ground might only be 2"-3" deep to some of the better ones that had spots were it was maybedoberman said:
are around '70'-'72' and often up to '83'.
Such variables also suggest the importance of having Ground Balance capability rather than relying on a factory preset model. I've hit a few dirt sites the past couple of days that are some of the lowest-reading around here and they have been from '61' to '64'. Not a lot of places I hunt around here are that low a Ground Phase, and yet they still showed 2 Fe[sub]3[/sub]O[sub]4[/sub] bars and three occasionally.
I trust your spring detecting will be rewarding.
Monte
doberman said:
Such variables also suggest the importance of having Ground Balance capability rather than relying on a factory preset model. I've hit a few dirt sites the past couple of days that are some of the lowest-reading around here and they have been from '61' to '64'. Not a lot of places I hunt around here are that low a Ground Phase, and yet they still showed 2 Fe[sub]3[/sub]O[sub]4[/sub] bars and three occasionally.
I trust your spring detecting will be rewarding.
Monte
I thought the higher the phase number the better the ground. The lower the number the worst the dirt. My numbers around here run mid 60's to low 70's. When I went to Florida on land it was in the 80's on land and in the lows 20's at the wet salt beach. Oh, I live in S.E. Georgia about 60 miles west of Savannah.
Am I backwards?
Am I backwards?
Jackpine Savage
Active member
There is no such thing as backwards when it comes to the phase numbers. Good ground can run from mid 50's to low 80's from what I have seen locally here in Michigan. Coil type has an efffect on the readings as well with the stock concentric generally running 10 numbers higher in the same ground compared to the 11" DD for me. Since some of the posts fail to mention the coil type and quite a few fail to state the Fe reading it makes it hard to get a general concensus on what areas have 'bad' ground.
No Fe bars ever in my ground with the ground phase running in the 70's to low 80's with the stock coil, and rarely mid 50's to mostly mid 60's on up to the mid 70's with the 11 DD coil for me.
The ground phase numbers seem to indicate the type of ground but you have to use the Fe reading to get the amount of iron mineralization. In other words a high phase number can mean there is iron mineralization present but combined with a low or no Fe reading it means the amount of iron mineralization is not a problem.
HH Tom
No Fe bars ever in my ground with the ground phase running in the 70's to low 80's with the stock coil, and rarely mid 50's to mostly mid 60's on up to the mid 70's with the 11 DD coil for me.
The ground phase numbers seem to indicate the type of ground but you have to use the Fe reading to get the amount of iron mineralization. In other words a high phase number can mean there is iron mineralization present but combined with a low or no Fe reading it means the amount of iron mineralization is not a problem.
HH Tom