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One for you Steve

A

Anonymous

Guest
I'd be real impressed if you could help me out with this one.I'd be happy if I knew what the center design element is called for sure.
It's from the vicinity of a documented French and Indian war's encampment but it could also date a bit later.Coins found in the vicinity dated from late 1690's to late 1770's.Not a heavily settled area now either.Found it more or less in the middle of a field with not much context.
 
Nice dig, CS... heres a start with the link below. That's a unique pattern with the three flowers (anemones?). Let's see if we can find a match....
 
Here's the back.One tab like attachement that looks like it could have pinched either material or even a thin surface on something.It still has it's original shape and the gap between the folded surfaces is about 1/16th of an inch and rather square around the fold.I also see one remaining small "hooklike" tab/barb on one of the three ends.They look like they would've grabbed well in material or pressed into wood.
Concerning the design elements I'm not buying the stylized Fleur-de-lys yet.What I think it might represent is three feathers with two sprigs.There was a post on the TDepot the other day with something like that.That one looks more like three feathers than a fleur-de-lys.I've included the link.Someone has replied that he has found a similar object in Louisiana to that one.
The other designs are more easily categorized the two bottom raised elements are pateras, the small one on top is a rosette.Aside from the fact they are classical design elements, I'm not sure of any meaning.If you look for periods of furniture making that embraced classical revival design you would of course have to consider the French Louis style periods but that's not exclusive either.You find pateras, rosettes,palmettes and such on George III furniture also.
Someone who knows alot more than me about relics has said that it might be a cartridge box plate but he did not say why.
 
...invert it and it is a classic fleur-de-lis design. The three feather motif that you are talking about is an emblem used by the Prince of Wales since.
Opposite the red dragon is Charles' badge as the heir-apparent to the British throne. It consists of three ostrich feathers surrounded by a crown with the motto Ich Dien. The motto and ostrich feathers are associated with "the Black Prince" (Edward III's son).
 
French Liard de France 1698,Spanish pillar 2 Reales 1751,Spanish pillar 1/2 reale 1771 and the more common assortment of about 20-25 GeorgeII/III coppers.Some gun brasses were also found along with many unmarked buttons.There were three French military buttons found also and about 1+1/2 cannon balls.Don't think that this site is very well defined.It's rather a large area of open fields and hills that's in the middle of what was an active military area at one time.Now it's empty farm land.I'd describe the area's military history as mostly French and Indian wars with a smidgen of Rev. war to make it interesting.There's not an enormous quantity of stuff to be found but patience will pay off.
 
I looked at that possibility when I saw your first post.Could very well be.The tab would then support in a more natural way, if hanging.Thank you for the Prince of Wales/ostrich feather connection.I knew It was a symbol one encounters once in awhile.I guess I have difficulty accepting the Fleur-de-Lys because the flowers are not fat and pointed.
 
It was under Louis VII, who reigned from 1137 to 1180, that the fleur-de-lis, which had been used for a long time on royal seals, decorated the azure banner. Carried by an equerry, the banner preceded the king everywhere. The king alone could display it.
In its oldest form, the royal ensign was twice as long as it was wide. Charles V, crowned in 1364, reduced to three the number of fleurs-de-lis on the banner that accompanied into battle all of the French kings up to Henri IV (1589-1610).
<img src="http://www.gouv.qc.ca/Images/Vision/Drapeau/banierea.jpg">
On July 24, 1534, Jacques Cartier planted a cross in Gasp
 
Yup, we find that on the French relics here.Here's a pic of a bale seal found in the same greater area.There is a vague similarity to the design on my relic but I'm keeping an open mind until I know for sure.
 
The fleur de lis has also been used by the British since 1340, when Edward III added the ancient arms of France, "Azure semy of fleurs-de-lis or," as part of his claim to the French throne through his mother. (His son, the Prince of Wales and the Ostrich feathers)
<img src="http://www.fleurdelis.com/graphics/edwardiii.gif">
The fleur de lis remained on the British Royal Coat of Arms until 1801, when George III renounced his title as King of France under the Treaty of Paris.
<img src="http://www.fleurdelis.com/graphics/georgeiii.gif">
Another interesting thing... The national flower of Britain is the rose, and this is a popular English motif, particularly the Tudor Rose which represents the union of the Lancaster (Red) and York (White) Houses after the War of Roses. It is not unlike the rosette on your find.
<img src="http://www.faires.com/rose.gif">
 
...feel welcome to post any of these extraordinary finds, CS!
 
After much thought, and looking at other similar items, I think this is half of a cloth belt, buckle. Both sides would have looked the same, and it is possible that it was from a womans belt. I have seen similar buckles pre 1812 to the late Vicky period.
Dean Owen
Whitby Ontario
 
That it might be civilian and decorative.It's all very possible.The toughest things to ID are the things that are simply lost and in no real context.Thanks for your feedback.
 
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