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Opinions Needed

TomH

New member
Folks,

I have been using a Minelab Safari for the last 5 months and am considering an upgrade to either the Explorer SE Pro or the E-Trac. I am a relic hunter, living adjacent to Gettysburg and hunting mostly in PA and MD, with occasional trips to VA. I run into just about every soil condition, from soft loamy brown gold to rust-red "powdered Iron" (Culpeper, VA, Emmitsburg, MD, parts of G'Burg, etc.). Most of the places that I get permission to hunt are considered "hunted out", with just about every machine imaginable having passed through since the advent of the Metrotech and the surplus WWII mine sweepers, so targets are generally more than 8 inches deep or deeper.

The Safari has been excellent at finding the deeper targets, especially bullets (my area of specialization, my collection can be viewed at http://www.baymediapro.com/collection). Do you folks feeel that the extra computing power in the Explorer and E-Trac would make them better machines for my type of hunting? I am getting familiar with the Safari's orchestra of tones and am really starting to like that machine a bunch, but I generally dig with people that use the latest and greatest developments from Whites and Fisher and am always looking for that slight advantage.

Any and all opinions are welcome and appreciated,
Tom Henrique
 
Tough question to answer. The Safari is no slouch, it even has the very good Pro coil. I'm not sure you will see much improvement over your finds with the Explorer or E-Trac if you are proficient with the Safari. The E-Trac has added capabilities for difficult ground and some other tweaks. If money is no object, by all means, get the E-Trac. But if you're on a budget and have to get something new, a used Explorer II or SE can be had pretty reasonably now and you can swap the Pro coil off the Safari on to the Explorer.

I think you answered your own question, "Safari has been excellent at finding the deeper targets, especially bullets... my area of specialization." If you are finding what you want and it is doing it well, why change? Will the Explorer or E-Trac get you more? Maybe not.
 
As Tom knows, I just traded my Safari for a used SE. I'm going to find out if there is any advantage, and I will be getting the pro coil for the SE before relic hunting season is in full swing this fall. I've been out with the SE about 5 hours total, just coin hunting a little, I think I will like it alot. When I learn to really use it that is.

Barry
 
Nick,

I have heard it said more than one time that the Safari is basically the E-Trac without the diagnostics. Is that an accurate assessment? I am a former musician with a decent, albeit older, ear and am really starting to like the ability to listen to the return signal and get a picture of what is under my coil. I also like the idea that the Safari makes me determine what the signal means, instead of depending on a program to determine what is a good or bad signal.

Also, bad ground is a major issue where I get to go digging. A couple of our favorite places are very mineralized, to the point of being described as powdered iron. One of my favorite digs is in the Culpeper, VA area and the dirt is horrendous. In some spots on the field nearly every trarget reads like small iron, including brass butttons or bullets.

Barry,

The more than two weeks of Biblical Proportion rain here in the Burg has shut us down completely. The wet clay sticks to your feet in seconds so you end up with "Bullwinkle" feet and your coil ends up weighing about 15 pounds. It finally stopped raining but now the field grass is waist deep and the ticks and snakes have come out in big numbers. Really might be time to take up Beach Hunting :smoke:

Thanks,
Tom Henrique
 
will hit every target the Explorer or Etrac will when relic hunting ... period !
It's just not quite as fast in reset speed as the Etrac but every bit as deep, I've used them all in that Culpeper dirt and there is no substitute for a PI machine for relics left behind because the VLF machines simply couldn't HEAR it.
Pulse Induction detectors are far superior at seeing through bad ground, but there is a catch 22, no real discrimination (compared to a VLF) other than iron verses everything else, in other words, a PI reports ferrous or non ferrous and depending on what PI you chose, some offer better timings and iron masking than others.

Don't get me wrong here, I've hunted these hot sites for years using a Nautilus, Explorer, Safari, Relic Hawk, Tejon, F75, 1266XS, CZ70, 1270, MXT, 6000 Pro, Blue & Gray, and you name it, and I found relics ... but nothing in comparison to when I started using a PI unit.

A real wake up call for me was on a trip to Virginia a few years ago and watching some buddies compare signals in fairly hot ground between Richmond and Culpeper. Detectors used were the Nautilus with a 15" coil, the Tejon with the 12", the Explorer II with a WOT and a MXT with the 8x14 deepscan coil.

Out of all detectors being tested, the EX II and the Nautilus gave the best results on small cuff size buttons and 3 ringer bullets, targets averaged 10" in depth in that MEDIUM hot dirt but ALL of them suffered badly when tested in a truly HOT area about 40 yards away. That's when just out of curiosity I went back to my truck and grabbed my MInelab 3500 PI gold machine and fired it up.

As expected, there was absolutely no contest whatsoever between the PI and the VLF detectors ... none !
I was hearing targets loud and clear ... what few VLF detectors that could eek out a sound at all gave tones that I guarantee you wouldn't normally stop to dig.

So now it's gotten down to the fact that these highly sought after Civil War relic sites don't replenish themselves and once they're found and dug, the chances are slim to find anything else there with a VLF detector unless the ground gets moved around. Every time I go back to a site I thought was cleaned out with my arsenal of VLF detectors and turn on my PI machine .. it's like hunting a new site.

Sure I dig a ton of trash using the PI detector compared to VLF but I also know that my chances are way better at finding relics the VLF missed ... so it's worth it to me.

At the last Diggin In Virginia hunt on day 3 ( the last day of the hunt when the targets had thinned way down) I literally detected behind VLF users that found what little they could hear and then I would clean up what they left behind, in some cases they had found a coat size button and they would leave behind deeper cuff size buttons, either they couldn't hear at all or it sounded so bad they decided to move on !!!

So if it's relics in bad ground you're after ..... I highly recommend a good PI machine and never doubt that you left it behind for somebody else to dig up and cherish. :biggrin:

Oh and by the way, I live in the iron ore belt of North Alabama and hunt some sites where the dirt is hotter than Barndy Rock in Culpeper. These finds were made with a Minelab PI and I promise you that there's not a VLF machine on the market that will even run at this site. When you turn on a VLF at this site, it just goes into overload.

Here's some goodies that came out of there, various lead, rivets, button backs, cannon ball fragments and misc. buckles.



Mike
 
Mike,

Ah... the dreaded PI machines!

I was at DIV XI and late on Sunday we were up on the hill opposite the tent and had given up for the day and were just taking in the scenery and watching the last few die-hards trying to find something in that red soil. Along came a guy swinging a Minelab 4500 and I watched him dig two targets right where I had just been!

The reason that I have stayed away from the PI machines is that I am really a casual digger and cannot justify having an arsenal of machines for different conditions. I chose the Safari because I really like Minelab and it looked like a real powerful machine without all the whistles and bells. A buddy of mine had bought a Whites TDI just for the DIV hunts and tried it here in the Burg and was very disappointed with the performance in decent ground. Is the Minelab similar? How does the Minelab PI technology work in good, non-mineralized soil? Do you only use your 3500 when your VLF machines fail to find stuff or would you consider using it as your all-around machine?

By the way, I will be at DIV XII and would like to meet you. I am part of the Gettysburg Gang and will be BBQing in the hotel parking lot again. Stop by the grill and say hi.

Tom Henrique
 
Well that's GOOD to know that you're a fellow DIVer :)
I don't usually hang around the Motel much because I always stay at Don Echols home in Orange and we drive straight to the hunt site from his place.
Will make a point in trying to find you though, maybe at the pre-hunt meeting or out in the field. The BBQ sounds like a winner, can never get enough of it.

Seeing a guy dig 2 targets right where you had just been kind of hurts a little bit ... been there, done that too :confused:

As for how the PI works in good ground, I'd have to say it wouldn't be my first choice unless I'm only after relics and not competing against others with a time restraint as with the DIV events.
A good VLF will pull more relics per trash ratio than any PI currently on the market ... in good ground I prefer the F75 for it's speed, separation and raw power, it's pretty good in the iron too but if I'm in heavy iron laden spots I'll reach for an Explorer every time. Both of them can be trusted to ID iron reasonably well in good dirt, one is just faster than the other.
Of course some iron will eek through and fool all of them, it's just a fact of life.

The trick for being successful with a good PI is like anything else, it's learning those subtle nuances of the tone that makes me stop in my tracks and DIG or walk away.

I guess my biggest point in the previous post was that in extremely hot ground ... nothing will punch through better or deeper than a PI and hit on relics the VLF can't hear.

I watched a guy dig a breast plate that sounded like crap at 7" with a VLF and he almost walked away from it, I was digging right beside him and he asked me to check the signal and I said that if he didn't dig it ... I would, .... probably should have kept my mouth shut.

I like the Minelab PI better than the Whites TDI because bullets sound like iron on the TDI and that was a real bummer for me. I'm sure that people who spend enough time with the TDI can tell the difference between bullets and iron but I never did with accuracy. The current TDI doesn't have tracking yet either, so that's another negative because my finds pouch was constantly hitting against and knocking the GB button on the TDI out of adjustment.
I do like the way Whites left it up to the user to manually adjust the timings where Minelab gives you a pre-set selection to chose from and nothing in between, so you have to play with it initially on a new site to find out what settings are best.... but once you get the Minelab dialed in ... it's a relic killer that no other can compare to in depth.

I simply use whatever it takes to get the relics out of the ground and site conditions are what dictates which type of detector I reach for.
If I lived where you do .. I'd surely be divorced because I'd never see my wife long enough between relic hunts to keep a smile on her face.

Hope to see you in the fall.
Good Hunting
Mike
 
Mike,

This will be my third DIV and I am hooked!!! Great prople, great food and four days of hanging with a bunch of other relic fanatics.

At DIV X I started with my Xterra 50 and ended up getting very frustrated. On Day 1 our crew found a CS Cav camp and I was unable to hear anything below about 4 inches. I dug one dropped and one flattened tie ring sharps while my buddies were getting 2 Script C buttons, a VMI button and the tongue from a CS two piece as well as more than 100 tie ring sharps and a handfull of Richmond Army and Navy revolver bullets. On Day 2 I switched to a buddy's F75 and ended up with a small handfull of dropped bullets and a complete epaulette. I later sold the Xterra.

At DIV XI my Safari was about three weeks old and I was just starting to learn the tones. I still managed to find four buttons, including a nice NY cuff, an enfield bullet puller and a handfull of dropped bullets. Not a huge haul, but nice for a brandy new machine. What really impressed me was that I started in all metal/auto sens and was digging nothing but iron, but as soon as I decided to trust the machine and switched to Relic mode I started finding keepers at an average depth of about 8 inches. Since then I have gotten quite a bit more time in with the Safari and really do like the machine. I generally dig with two guys that use an MXT with the big 12x15 SEF coil and a stock F75. The Safari definitely stays right up with those two machines and has in fact found some bullets that a Whites Vision/Spectra could not hear.

Again, thanks for the input and I look forward to meeting you at DIX XII.

Later,
Tom Henrique
 
Tom,

I just put the pro coil on the SE last night, can tell a significant difference from the slimline.

Mike,

I've hunted the cavalry camps near Stevenson, Ala. years ago with a Garret Deepseeker. That made me get rid of the Garrett. Could not tune it to the ground at all, but I also had problems with it at some spots around Dalton and Resaca.

Barry
 
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