I was reading some of the old posts and came across some comments about the PRG! I decided to post my comments here instead of in a past post! The PRG was way ahead of its time ! As far as I can tell it was the 1st TID machine! It came out in 1974 and although it only sold about 50 or so, I believe that it laid out the foundation for others to follow! It would take Whites and Teknetics another 6 years to come up with the next TID machine! The PRG was basicly a TR with a sensor in its searchcoil which along with a numeric meter read the targets conductive value from 0 to 100! Does that sound familiar! I believe its downfall was its price($850.00 in 1974 dollars) and weight(7 pounds). Many people could not afford it, so had to make due with more affordable models! I recently have seen the patent info on it, but haven't seen one since the late 1970's! Wonder what happened to the 50 or so that they did sell?! One may be in the Garrett Museum? Alot of these were purchased by elderly indiividuals so now I'm assuming that they have passed on and these detectors must be sitting in someones closet just gathering dust! Our descendents do not always cherish and love our detectors like we do! So some of these detectors wind up on ebay, in the trash or in someones garage sale! I'd like to see someone find one and at least post pictures of it! On the other hand, I do not think that it would be very competitive with todays modern TID machines! It was a TR so it had a lot of problems with mineralization! In neutral ground, it could not be beat! But it did have problems with IDing deep targets!(Sounds like some of our newer detectors) Any one seen one lately or seen one in the past...............................I would like to hear your stories...........................HH..........Joe
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PHASE READOUT GRADIOMETER (PRG)
- Thread starter John(H)
- Start date
The 2nd TID detector was actually the Roach/Metlsensor! It sold even less detectors than the PRG! Although its price was about half of the PRG, it was not very popular! It had a double square coil and it was to be used walking in a straight line, no sweeping was recommended! Even for today anything this unconventional would not be very popular. Also $400.00 in 1976 was still alot of money and most detectorists stuck to models that were more affordable again!.........................HH..............Joe
Steve, I did a search too but did it today! Seems like at least a few people are lookin for one but in working order! Even if one is found, I doubt it would be in working order! I heard in the late 1970's that its meter was malfunctioning and had to replaced! I believe that this meter replacement is what cause the PRG's downfall! Seems like with today's technology that a replacement meter could be found for one. Of course one has to find the actual detector 1st in any type of condition!.........................HH............Joe
This is a fascinating detector that no one has made many comments on how it well it works. Oh yeah, someone commented on one forum somewhere that is only did well on Florida beaches. Still, I don't think we have seen a best non-motion detector taken to its full potential. There is a lot of info in non-motion but the perfect detector should be able to also disc in non-motion, at least disc out small nails, most of the older detectors with non-motion that also has some form of disc end up limiting depth because they can't make them to do that and ground balance at the same time. At least the meter on this one would help ID iron if it works well. Wonder if anyone has a schematic so that one could be built?
TECHNOS. Weighed in at over seven pounds. Coil must have been about five inches thick.
Nice and sensitive with great iron rejection but could in no way cope with negative minerals, which was a real pity as salt water had no effect what so ever and twin and multifrequency were still a long way off.
Nice and sensitive with great iron rejection but could in no way cope with negative minerals, which was a real pity as salt water had no effect what so ever and twin and multifrequency were still a long way off.
Brian, I never said that the PRG WAS A GARRETT! I only mentioned that one may be in the
Garrett Museum since the PRG was featured in some of his early books! I WISH THAT IT WAS A GARRETT THEN MAYBE MORE INFO ON THE PRG WOULD BE AVAILABLE. From my knowledge not much exists today about this detector. All I could find was the Patent info, and old ads in long-defunct Treasure magazines! Technos still exists but they have lost all data concerning this detector. Besides working good at the beach it was very good in Neutral ground! I heard that at least one was taken to Great Britain during the mid-1970's and the detectorist came back to America with a pot full of coins found individually!........................Joe
Garrett Museum since the PRG was featured in some of his early books! I WISH THAT IT WAS A GARRETT THEN MAYBE MORE INFO ON THE PRG WOULD BE AVAILABLE. From my knowledge not much exists today about this detector. All I could find was the Patent info, and old ads in long-defunct Treasure magazines! Technos still exists but they have lost all data concerning this detector. Besides working good at the beach it was very good in Neutral ground! I heard that at least one was taken to Great Britain during the mid-1970's and the detectorist came back to America with a pot full of coins found individually!........................Joe
Sorry when you said one of the fifty made might be in the Garrett collection....can't ever see them keeping machines from other manufacturers.
I got in a few hours detecting with the machine in the mid 70's I think. Crippled me for weight. Also didn't find any ground neutral enough for it to excel over the other machines of the period.
Coming home with a pot full of coins is no guide to the machines performance as a hundred coins a day could be managed easily on many beaches the limit was as to how long your back lasted with digging the holes.
I got in a few hours detecting with the machine in the mid 70's I think. Crippled me for weight. Also didn't find any ground neutral enough for it to excel over the other machines of the period.
Coming home with a pot full of coins is no guide to the machines performance as a hundred coins a day could be managed easily on many beaches the limit was as to how long your back lasted with digging the holes.
My referral to a pot full of coins found individually wasn't a referrence to the machines performance but more or less a statement that the majority of sites back then was Virgin Territory and finding 100's of silver coins in a span of a few days was not uncommon for this machine! I also had useage of one of these mchines and I can testify that I found 100's if not 1000's of silver coins in very trashy parks and schoolyards!................HH.............Joe
Can't afford one at this time, the lowest price of one is around $1200. with the top of the line around $2400. This is really a Deepseeker and probably compares in depth with the Saxon-1. Not for use in areas of shallow targets and one needs to carry a shovel to retrieve targets with this detector! (A backhoe may be needed as a back-up!!!) I did see one on Ebay a while back so at least a few are in the USA!............The ebay seller mentioned that he dug a railroad iron rail at 10 feet deep-he said that the signal was similiar to iron cannon so he had to investigate!!!.......HH...................Joe
Nexus can be used as a coinshooter with the restricted depth of the small coil but if you want real depth on larger items then you have to buy the Ultima version (around $5000). For some reason Georgie won't sell you the large coil by itself. Could be the machine has to be specifically tuned to the large coil.
Much better discrimination at depth with the Nexus but they both share the problem of not being able to cope with wet sand or high mineralisation.
Nexus with small and mid coils is lighter in use than the Saxon. The Saxon, unless things have changed recently, is limited in that there's not a range of coil sizes.
Much better discrimination at depth with the Nexus but they both share the problem of not being able to cope with wet sand or high mineralisation.
Nexus with small and mid coils is lighter in use than the Saxon. The Saxon, unless things have changed recently, is limited in that there's not a range of coil sizes.
You refered to coins being brought back from the U.K. At that period there were other machines in use that could manage and beat the 12 inch depth of the Technos and operate on the sites that the P.R.G. didn't work on.
They didn't manage to get a U.K. distributor and even you finding 'hundreds, if not thousands' of silver coins didn't buy one !
Re the 70's being a golden age of detecting, modern type machines (non motion) were being produced by Fisher, Goldak, Rayscope, D Tex, Whites, Relco, Gardiner and many others ten years before that and the more primitive ones ten years earlier again.
They didn't manage to get a U.K. distributor and even you finding 'hundreds, if not thousands' of silver coins didn't buy one !
Re the 70's being a golden age of detecting, modern type machines (non motion) were being produced by Fisher, Goldak, Rayscope, D Tex, Whites, Relco, Gardiner and many others ten years before that and the more primitive ones ten years earlier again.
Although the 1970's was the GOLDEN AGE OF METAL DETECTING, the discriminator did not show up until 1973 or 1974, and most only had limited discrimination, that is they could only discriminate tin foil, bottle caps and small nails! Full discrimination was not available yet! So when the PRG came out in 1974, it was a major improvement over anything available at the time, since it featured a numeric TID meter! Yes it was too heavy and did not have ground balancing capabilities but still for its time it was a major improvement over any else available! Remember that at this time the VLF or GEB detector was still on the drawing board and would not appear till 1975 or 1976! The PRG's depth although not bad did not go as deep as the VLF's and deep targets would not register corectly!.................................... Also..............on the PRG............WHO SAID THAT I NEVER HAD ONE!..................HH..................Joe
This is a it like drawing teeth but if you re read your posts you talk of a PRG but don't name it. Suggest that one might be in the Garrett museum which would lead people to think the un-named machine is a Garrett. Say you had the 'use of one'. O.K. I've had the use of the Nexus, Saxon X-1 Ultradepth, Lorenz, OKI, Pulse Star and many similar but haven't bought them because of the limitations these non mainstream machines have.
You say only 50 of the PRG's were sold and wonder what happened to them. Well you should know what happened to the one you had and it would be more helpful if you gave the reasons why you parted with it.
The impression with many posts regarding older machines is that they had performance beyond that that they really had. If they did they would have been developed further. Many were unreliable, most were heavy, often had high battery consumption and limited performance.
This hasn't prevented me keeping many of them as they often also have better abilities in high rubbish areas, iron 'see through' etc.
You say only 50 of the PRG's were sold and wonder what happened to them. Well you should know what happened to the one you had and it would be more helpful if you gave the reasons why you parted with it.
The impression with many posts regarding older machines is that they had performance beyond that that they really had. If they did they would have been developed further. Many were unreliable, most were heavy, often had high battery consumption and limited performance.
This hasn't prevented me keeping many of them as they often also have better abilities in high rubbish areas, iron 'see through' etc.
Brian,(this is like pulling hen's teeth??) most of your posts have been negative! If you don't like me talking about the PRG or Garrett just say so! You need to re-read my posts! I mentioned NEGATIVE as well as POSTIVE ASPECTS of this machine! Although great for 1974 it would not or could not keep up with todays machines! BUT...............it is still a GREAT COLLECTOR's PIECE! I am a Vintage Detector Collector! Mine was GREAT........BUT it did not have the depth of the VLF's and not so sensitive to iron relics so when the VLF's appeared I traded my PRG off for one of the early model VLF Discriminators! I loved the new (for the time) VLF's but that doesn't mean that I don't have any REGRETS! AND FOR ME TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO MY PRG AFTER THE TRADE GIVE ME A BREAK AGAIN!!!Brian if you have been using and collecting detectors for over 36 years like me.............it is IMPOSSIBLE to keep track of every detector traded, sold, etc..............NOW..............I wish that I could field test machines like the Saxon-1, Arado 120B, Arado 130, Nexxus, etc. without having to buy one or paying rental fees! (Where do I sign up?).................HH...........Joe
I don't re buy detectors. I normally buy from a dealer who will let me try two or three of a model. I select the best for my needs (often the older machines had one mode that was hot, say all metal but discrim. would be weak or vis versa.
Then I would keep it until it was really proved obsolete.
I've never traded in a machine yet because so often the updated 'improved' version would not be, in use, in the field.
Then I would keep it until it was really proved obsolete.
I've never traded in a machine yet because so often the updated 'improved' version would not be, in use, in the field.
Sorry to hear that it is very hard to get vintage detectors repaired in Great Britain due to lack of parts or that the parts have become very rare and either impossible to get or almost impossible! I have a little difficulty getting parts but nothing compared to what is happening in Great Britain! Also one must read inbetween the lines of my posts although a vintage detector may do good here in my neutral soil, it may be a major disappointment like in Great Britain where the soil is mineralized or at least the soil acts like it is mineralized due to the eons of iron rubbish! I sure would like to detect over there with any of my VLF type machines (even a Garrett- whose parts should be easier to obtain than some of the other obsolete brands)................HH.............and pleast post some of those Ancient Coin finds!........................Joe
Before I start, I would like to make it clear that the Nexus machine I have does perform in exactly the way that George says it does. It is very deep and discriminates perfectly.
I bought the third one of the Nexus machines. George had the first obviously, GaryUK had the second and mine was next. When I bought it George explained that the machines were under constant development and as the machines got better and the models evolved he would keep my one up to date free of charge. This was to be his way of thanking me for showing some faith in his machine and parting with a large sum of money.
A couple of months ago I notice on the Nexus web-site that the machine had now changed cosmetically and according to George's web-site, also the performance had improved. I contacted George and asked him about the improvements and the promised upgrades.
According to him, the improvements mentioned on his web-site are not improvements. My machine is more powerful and more sensitive. Apparently the original stem (two bits of wood 32mmx32mm) are much better than the composite stems that he now offers and the coils he is now making are nowhere near as good as the one that is on mine.
In short, he doesn't consider that the Nexus machines have been upgraded so mine can stay as it is. I may take a picture in a bit and post it up along with a link to his website. You can decide what the better looking machine is.
I can't see why someone would advertise that his product has been improved and then tell an existing client that the current product is worse than the original. Why go backwards with performance? Either way, George has contradicted himself. Either the machines have been upgraded and he is renaging on his promise or his web-site is not telling things as-is and the new machines do not perform as well as the early ones.
One thing is certain. If the older machines are better than the new ones I certainly wouldn't buy a new one. The control box on mine fell apart within six months and since then has got gaffa tape holding it together and the wires within the battery box have all had to be either re-soldered or replaced because the connections kept breaking. Finally, none of the labelling on the control box was water-proof. The first time it got even slightly wet it all ran.
The overall build quality on machine No.3 was crap. George reckons the older ones are better? God know what the build quality on the new ones is like then!
I bought the third one of the Nexus machines. George had the first obviously, GaryUK had the second and mine was next. When I bought it George explained that the machines were under constant development and as the machines got better and the models evolved he would keep my one up to date free of charge. This was to be his way of thanking me for showing some faith in his machine and parting with a large sum of money.
A couple of months ago I notice on the Nexus web-site that the machine had now changed cosmetically and according to George's web-site, also the performance had improved. I contacted George and asked him about the improvements and the promised upgrades.
According to him, the improvements mentioned on his web-site are not improvements. My machine is more powerful and more sensitive. Apparently the original stem (two bits of wood 32mmx32mm) are much better than the composite stems that he now offers and the coils he is now making are nowhere near as good as the one that is on mine.
In short, he doesn't consider that the Nexus machines have been upgraded so mine can stay as it is. I may take a picture in a bit and post it up along with a link to his website. You can decide what the better looking machine is.
I can't see why someone would advertise that his product has been improved and then tell an existing client that the current product is worse than the original. Why go backwards with performance? Either way, George has contradicted himself. Either the machines have been upgraded and he is renaging on his promise or his web-site is not telling things as-is and the new machines do not perform as well as the early ones.
One thing is certain. If the older machines are better than the new ones I certainly wouldn't buy a new one. The control box on mine fell apart within six months and since then has got gaffa tape holding it together and the wires within the battery box have all had to be either re-soldered or replaced because the connections kept breaking. Finally, none of the labelling on the control box was water-proof. The first time it got even slightly wet it all ran.
The overall build quality on machine No.3 was crap. George reckons the older ones are better? God know what the build quality on the new ones is like then!