Pin Pointing 705

[GTzer]

Analog caveman with a computer.

OK-used a Whites 6000 Di Series 3 for 29 yrs. Just started learning my 705. It will take some doing -but I am determined.

Pin pointing- Whites= (for coin targets) signal-pull trigger-it gives accurate depth- if you have trouble you can narrow the depth signal. Surface coins-easy! Coins to 7"- If its not at the indicated depth-it's not a coin!. Questionable (junk-can etc) trace it with the narrowed signal.
Finding tiny-non-coin targets- pretty easy.

I was wondering when I started researching a new detector why all the feedback (must have etc) regarding a separate pin pointer. I get it now. I did get one with the 705 BUT it's an enormous Auto Max. Not the kind of thing I would-usually-even consider carrying.

XTerra 705- pin pointing (and depth)-very disappointing! Tried both modes. yeah -new machine BUT I hope I can refine this. Dug maybe 50 targets today. Studied the pin point and depth on every one. Depth- didn't really tell me anything. Pin point- very general- even with the narrowed signal- Target was always off from the indicated center (loudest-circle indicator-several directions).

In the past- I rarely ever dug a surface coin- (not on top-1/4-1.5") just a little pry under center. When I made a plug for coins over 2 " it was usually a 3/4 3" still attached flip and done. (4-5" on quarters, half's & $1's).

705 in my yard and today- I'd pin point longer than usual and still miss. And I'm talking coins- not the other stuff. Some one please tell me that the trade off from analog to this amazing machine didn't eliminate simple pin pointing and depth.

WHAT DEPTH ARE THE ARROWS SUPPOSED TO INDICATE FOR COIN TARGETS?
I'm not new to MD. I'm new to this 705. I get it- if you don't dig it.........etc. But at times (time constraints etc.) I like to find a pattern and dig selectively. Spoiled-old-yeah I guess--sometimes I just don't want to dig every zinc-memorial cent. I'll just roll the dice.....
Example- if I dig IH's that read 14 at 5" I'll skip a lot of 1-2" cent readings. If I have time I'll go back )or come another time) and dig them. To me that's a pattern for that one area. MDing that way has got me plenty of: silver,IHs Wheats,Large Cents, Colonials, jewelry etc.

I really need to be able to do this with the 705. I have plenty of learning to do- BUT I'm basically looking for feedback on how to assess what are surface coins & how to quickly pin point so I can make my choices.

Any input would be appreciated. I have Randys book and the manual. Just re read again. And I'm missing something OR it's not there.

The main frustration - I could have done what took me 3 hrs with my 705 in 20 minutes with my analog Whites. (and I would have eliminated the 3 buried soda cans)

Thank you

 

[GTzer]

"WHAT DEPTH ARE THE ARROWS SUPPOSED TO INDICATE FOR COIN TARGETS?"

* I meant-what depth do you think the arrows indicate. Book has them at 2" (each arrow)- no way. Coins barely in the roots of the grass had 2 arrows, Pennies at that depth are the kind I want to be able to skip-as opposed to coin targets at 4"-which I would normally dig.

@#$%&- from above- I did not write that. (really)

 

[BH_Landstar_]

The depth indicator on the 705 is not spot on with shallow targets, it is an estimate.

What coil you using ? Depends on the coil your using on how the pinpoint works.

 

[GTzer]

Yesterday -9" 7.5 concentric. The 5x10 DD HF wasn't spot on either.
This is not good news. Most places I go have shallow targets over the good, old stuff. There has got to be a way.

 

[BADBAJA]

Dig everything until your used to it. I use a 3inch Homemade hole plugger and can pinpoint good enough that I can center the coin in it so I don't scratch them. Just found a sac dollar (bigger than quater) and it was dead center of plug. I have the hf dd elliptical and I use the front sticker on the coil as the dead center. I usually pinpoint on way then move 90 degrees over and swipe again. Sometimes 2-3 times if I have to. Also start using a golf tee. It will hone in your pinpointing the best. Put the tee where you think center is, dig, see how far off you are and make changes accourdingly. This is the fastest way to perfect pinpointing.

Those arrows are a rough idea and just a aid in recovery. I pay no attention to them unless in heavy trash areas. Example; say shotty shells keep showing up around the 2 arrow range on the screen. Well suddenly you get a high tone thats at 4 arrows down. Time to dig.

 

[GTzer]

I appreciate the replies. I'll try the golf tee bit.
BUT- I REALLY hope I get some feed back that eases my feeling that I have a super MD with all kinds of bells & whistles-that somehow lacks the real essentials of coinshooting---pinpointing & depth for quick or accurate retrival.

I had to stop using my Whites due to the weight of the MD. That was analog. I don't want to go-backward or more primitive with a a machine like this. This piece should save time-not waste it.

The 705 has everything the Whites lacked- but SEEMS to lack the basic features that the analog had.

Dig everything?- I want that to be a choice-not a necessity. I did take time -way too much time-on each of 50-100 targets the past few days. Criss cross, narrow, lift coil, mark spot, 2 modes, over & over. Spent 3-5 minutes on many targets before I even tried to extract. Off by 3"- 2 arrow coins being 1/2" down etc.

Past 29 yrs- If it took more than 15 seconds to pop up modern coins 1" or < down- I didn't care to do it. OK with pinpointing & depth- 30 seconds.
Now I have my mercedes rocket computer and I have to: plug and search or carry a pin pointer for the same.

C'mon-somebody tell me I'm absolutely wrong (PLEASE) and give some feedback on depth and pinpointing.

Thanks

 

[MADCLADDER]

I am kind of in the same boat as you. Pinpointing yeah I need pratice, each machine is different. Depth on mine has been spot on. I decided today to use this 705 this season and if I cant learn to like it as much as my whites MXT, I'll sell it and buy a different machine that resembles the MXT but lighter. If nothing fits that, I'll just go back to the MXT. I dont want to do that because I love how light this 705 is. Bottom line is I need to be patient and give this machine a fair shot. Morelic finds killer relics, Digger finds AWESOME coins. So it must be one fine machine. Hang in there as I am and I am sure us 705 rookies will be getting the hang of it

 

[GTzer]

Thanks for the reply. What worries me is that I mastered the Whites---pinpoint,depth and location/extraction in 1/2 an hour. 30 years ago I was a newbie. I stress- this was for COINS. Non coins took some work.
I hope that there is some method to get quick and accurate w the 705-----in pin pointing, location & extraction of COINs that are shallow. Otherwise it will be really hard to embrace this -otherwise amazing MD.

I won't mention all of the great features it has. I am absolutely certain that it would put the Whites to shame: on the beach (5% of what I do)- farm fields 10% woods-10% and highly mineralized ground. For those places I might even carry my giant Auto max.

Clad & modern coinage are just: a pleasant by product to me. Most times-a nuisance that I try to see past for older coins. Yes it adds up- glad to take it if I can get it done w/o spending time. And w the Whites- if it's (coin target) not where the MD directed me (depth & pinpoint) it will be- conductive trash OR jewelry-buttons-tokens etc. SO you can-eliminate say-a can-bolt-toy -trash a foot down in less than a minute, pop a 2" clad .25 w/o plugging in seconds- know you have a better % shot at jewelry etc in moments.

Most places I go have surface-coins,trash jewelry masking deeper older coins. The surface keeps getting replenished. I really don't want to spend-MINUTES-trying to get a 2" clad .25 out of the way in my quest for the IH's, V & Shield 5c, silver that start around 5". It would be ineffective to have to use two MD's- the Whites to clean up so I could utilize the finer qualities of the 705 to find: targets I and others have missed, offset the low GB soil etc.

This 705 is too great- I have to know- if there is a way to perfect the pin point & depth or know I got the wrong MD for MDing coins in my area.

Hell- the Whites coil was solid- I can pop a .10 or.25 clad in seconds OR know that it's not a coin. I used the 9" concentric last time out- it has a HOLE in the center. read what I said above- spent 3-5 minutes trying to PP according to the 705 w a coil that I could see the alleged centerand still the coin would be up to 3" away from that point.
Now if it's like a badly sighted gun (you know- bullet always pulls right and down 30 degrees) I need to know. 705 has a very distinct sound AND a visual to pin point- 50-100 targets and I can't center 1-how hard could it be?

Any additional input would be appreciated. I anticipated a long learning process--- for all of the great features. BUT not for pin pointing shallow coins.

I am old school- I don't ever expect instant gratification. In regards to my topic- I'm either missing some obvious refinement OR it is the weak spot of this marvel.

 

[BarnacleBill]

Lay targets on surface of ground, practice pinpointing. Once you are confident throw a blanket over them and approach from a different direction, practice some more. In areas with few targets use Automatic Pinpoint, in areas with lots of targets use Sizing Pinpoint, but learn how to de-tune it and you can quickly get down to the size of a pinhead. In either Pinpoint mode the the coil must be in motion for ID. An old technique, and you say you've detected before, is to not use Pinpoint and simply shorten your left to right coil swing while raising the coil. There's also the option of going into Prospect mode but you lose ID.

BB

 

[Digger]

I still have an XLPro, so I know what you mean about the accuracy of the analog meter for TID. That 6000 series is the only detectors I've ever owned that would hit on two quarters stacked together and call it a 50 cent piece! But as far as depth estimates, I never put much stock into them on any detector. However, they were designed to represent an approximate depth of an average sized target. So what is approximate and what is average? I figure, since there are 5 of them, each one must represent about 20% of the depth capability of that coil on that specific target. If I am using a 9-inch concentric over damp soil, and the X-705 indicates a TID of 42 with three marks showing on depth, I plan on digging a quarter at 6 inches. The reasoning behind that a TID of 42 is usually a quarter. And my 9-inch coil will hit a quarter at 10 inches in damp soil. Three marks out of five = 60% of the depth capability. 60% of ten inches is 6 inches. If the TID had been a 38, I would expect to dig a dime. And since I can detect a dime at 7 inches with that coil, I would expect a dime with three marks to be located at 60% of 7-inches, or a bit over 4 inches deep. Although the math is fairly simple, there isn't any magic or guarantees. But one thing for certain is that, once you learn where the exact center of each coil is located (the sweet spot), the target will always be straight down from that spot. You can find the sweet spot by placing a coin on ground, and while sweeping back and forth over it, continue raising the concentric coil until the audio response is just a bleep in your ears. Take note of the location of the target in regard to the coil and you have found the "sweet spot" for that particular concentric coil. And that sweet spot will be the same whether in detect mode, Pinpoint mode or Prospecting mode. While we're talking about raising the coil while sweeping over the target, that is a great way to identify those aluminum cans you mentioned. If you are still getting a target response with the coil a foot in the air, it isn't likely going to be a coin, In addtion to raising the coil above what coins can be located and listenting for a response, if the audio response indicates the target is longer than it is wide, you can bet the farm it isn't going to be a coin. Personally, when I use Pinpoint, I use Sizing Pinpoint to determine the approximate size and shape of the target. With practice, you can usually tell a coin by the width and audio clarity of the target response.

I was going to go into detail about the differences between Auto Pinpoint and Sizing Pinpoint. But based on your post, you've tried them both, with limited success. My first questions would be did you noise cancel, properly ground balance and set your sensitivity to a level that doesn't create false signals. Was your Threshold set to a barely audible level? If the answer to those questions is yes, then as with your White's, you need to make sure you are not holding the coil over anything metal when you activate the Pinpoint mode. If you are using Auto Pinpoint, the audio response will get narrower with each pass of the coil. If you learn where the "sweet spot" is on your coil, you should now be finding the target directly under that spot, when the target response is loudest. I have found, however, that if you raise your coil after having made a pass or two in Auto Pinpoint, the target will not respond at the greater distance. You can either lower the coil to rescan, wait a few seconds and it will reset, or you can flip out of Pinpoint, and back to Pinpoint, to resume the operation. If you are using Sizing Pinpoint (which is what I prefer when I use the Pinpoint mode), the audio response will not automatically get more narrow as you pass over the target. This allows you to "trace" the target to make an educated guess as to its size and shape. As a side note, you can manually make a more narrow response by turning the Pinpoint on while the coil is near the target. This is thoroughly explained on page 28 of the user's manual.

Personally, I seldom use Pinpoint mode. I prefer to simply X over the target from various directions ,listen to the responses and dig where the tones meet up. On 'DD coils I drag it toward my feet and when the signal falls off, I dig at the front tip of the coil. If I am having trouble isolating targets by sweeping back and forth over them, I usually switch to Prospecting mode and slow down my sweeps. I don't get the depth indication in Prospecting mode. But I already knew the TID and depth before I got this far.

As to the clad coins close to the surface...... they can be tough to sort out. Those very near the surface will usually create a double beep from the sides of the concentric coil. Not a single beep in what we identified as the sweet spot. Especially if you vary the speed of your sweep on repeated passes. Clad that is a couple inches deep is one of those unknowns, as far as I am concerned. But then again, I don't base my desicion of "dig or not" on the targets depth. I can't even guess the number of old coins I've dug that were less than 2 or 3 inches deep. In a modern park I may snipe out high tones for dimes and quarters. But I don't pass up a target based on depth. Like I said, I don't put much stock into functionality that is based on averages and approximates.

In closing.....in your post you mentioned IH cents at TID of 14.... I've dug hundreds of them with my X-TERRA and I've never found one that had a TID less than 24 or greater than 32. Flying Eagles are 20 - 22. DISCLAIMER,,,,TID may vary with settings, soil conditions, target placement and adjacent targets.

Hope this helps!

JMHO HH Randy

 

[GTzer]

BarnacleBill & Digger,
Thanks for the responses.
BB-coins on the surface are reading different than coins IN the ground. Way too different for me.-I'll get it.

Digger- Sorry-my mistake- first the IH's were actually 36-38 and that was on the Whites VDI. A lock just above (most) pull tabs.

Thanks for the info- OK I'll work on fine tuning the sensitivity-Threshold-noise cancel---Although I can GB the 705 manually I had it on Auto w tracking. Hopefully it will work out for me.
Disappointing to read you thoughts on surface clads. I was hoping this MD had the Whites effeminacy on that part along with the all of the amazing qualities it possesses. Seems like an oversight on an otherwise great MD to me.

And I have MDed many places with good old coins on the surface. The Whites would pick that up also. I extracted those coins more carefully than clads.
The majority of the sites I intend to utilize the super MD on are the places that had a lot of older coins 5-?" down-lots of trash and some highly mineralized. Some of these places have had clads 2-3" & oxidized since my last visit. They just keep getting replenished with modern stuff. I know that the 705 can find the coins that the Whites missed.

I write again after I do some more learning and perfecting.

Thanks

 

[bob.oz]

Never had a problem pinpointing a target with either my( X30/X705) detectors...The X30 with the 9"concentric coil was spot on 95% of the time/the 705 with the elliptical 5x10 or the 9" is just as accurate in pinpoint or just Xing it out..I can probe my target in 1 to 5 trys at most times/or dig it out in the spot pinpointed....dimes and things with holes can be tuff to probe,but are there when dug...

 

[GTzer]

Bob.oz,
Thanks for the reply. Obviously not the same for me-but looks like I have to refine some of the other features to pin point more effectively.

In light of all the aforementioned info. How long does it take you to locate-pp then extract a shallow surface coin? I found all of my targets- it just took way longer than I'm used to AS WELL as the majority being OFF from the obvious PP according to the MD.

Thanks

 

[MT_VertCaver]

GTzer,

I made a video last fall of several different targets and how I identify/pinpoint them.

I'm using the 10" MF DD coil. I locate the target and then drag the coil back until the signal disappears. The target will be right in front of the coil. REALLY shallow targets have a double or triple tone.

In the video, I'm going a slower than I normally do. I wanted to clearly show what I'm doing...and running a camera at the same time.

Park hunt with the X-terra

Hope it helps!!

 

[bob.oz]

GTzer...
i never took notice of time spent recovering a target,(except for those dam dimes),because of the different landscape conditions,time on a target can vary as you know...But shallow coins at 3" or less,once narrowed down by pinpointer or xing it out ,which with headphones really gives a good location of the target doesn't take me much time. When in pinpoint mode ill move the coil around above the target to the highest tone while putting the coil on the ground over the target note the location move the coil and ...probe it, and if a quarter or nickle, pop it out/maybe....time spent 15 /20 sec..as long as i don't go down on my knees, takes that long just to get back up...deeper targets,not wearing my glasses, and those dam dimes put me on the ground with time spent digging and locating the target,filling the hole,and getting back up... the X30 made getting used to the 705 easy to me/.extra this and that ,but same in ways..never had any other detector to compare to.
good luck to you

 

[Jellyfish]

Hey MT_VertCaver,

That's a really great video showing your pinpointing technique. I planted a clad dime at 3" and a clad quarter at 5" (marked with golf tee tops) and tried your method with a 9" MF CC and it worked like a charm. When I backed the coil off in pinpoint mode, the target was directly under the front of the inner circle when I had the sensitivity a little over mid-scale. Then I upped the sensitivity a bit and the target was just ahead of the inner circle and I guess that makes sense.

Like others have said and what I saw today was that the depth arrows are just a guide, but that's not something that bothers me in the least. The quarter at 5" showed four arrows and the dime at 3" read at three arrows. On the positive side, the TIDs agreed 100% with Digger's chart.

Looks like I need to play around some more in the test garden, but that in itself is fun.

Thanks!

 

[GTzer]

Thank you very much for all of that INFO. Can't wait to try it out. Had to step back for a few days. Didn't want you to think that it went unnoticed.