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Pinpointer Compatibility

Last week I got the new Minelab Pro-Find pinpointer. At first I was not impressed; it did not seem as solidly built as the Garrett ProPointer and the vibrate did not seem as strong. It does have a few nice features, such as Auto Off with an alert beep to help you find it if you leave it behind, adjustable sensitivity and vibrate only mode.

The best feature is DIF technology which keeps the pinpointer from interfering with your detector. I finally had a chance to try it out today and there was no interference between the V3i and the Pro-Find. Certainly a big plus over the Garrett!
 
Could you do a test for me on that pinpointer? Could you tell me if taking the pinpointer with both hands one on the tip and one on the base, and trying to twist it (bend), applying a small pressure will it start beeping? I ask because this happend to the garrett pro pointer. I have a DX1 on the V3i and I like it but I have other pinpointers as backup and I would like to know if minelabs is the one I need.

Thanks
 
norbyx said:
Could you do a test for me on that pinpointer? Could you tell me if taking the pinpointer with both hands one on the tip and one on the base, and trying to twist it (bend), applying a small pressure will it start beeping? I ask because this happend to the garrett pro pointer. I have a DX1 on the V3i and I like it but I have other pinpointers as backup and I would like to know if minelabs is the one I need.

Thanks

Did you remove your wedding ring first? :detecting:

What does this test determine?
 
Yes I did remove the wedding ring I will post a video so you can understand. This test determines that if you are searching in the dirt the pp won't go off just because you apply some pressure to the tip (like to stick the pp in the back of the plug). Will upload the video and maybe all will clear out.
 
Here is the video... see how just applying pressure to the tip it starts beeping??? Aparently it's a common thing in GPP... just wondering if the Minelabs is the same... you don't need to apply a lot of pressure, just a bit... [video]http://youtu.be/_Qsa0y_ZLPU[/video]
 
when you spend that kind of money on a pinpointer,I dont blame you for wanting to know the answer to the pressure making it sound off,that would drive me nuts.intersting topic I am sure you will get your answer. I use the bullseye 2 it may not go as deep but at least it doesnt go off when applying pressure or pushing down on it.
 
I just tried pushing down and side pressure to mine and it did not beep, so there must be something wrong with yours. I hope yours is still under warranty
 
I have two GPP and they both do it. But it is not a problem because as the name (pin pointer) implies it is a pin pointer and not a digger. I have no problem plugs of dirt. My second one is a used unit. I can see how some people wear ends off of pin pointers.
 
I was on the phone with garrett asking why this happend, and the told me it's a normal thing, so for garrett this is normal, I wonder if for minelabs it's the same. I am not using the pp as a digger, but if you have a plug and stick you pinpointer on the back of the plug, just pushing it in it will make it go off making you think that the coin is in the plug when maybe it's not. Anyhow If I intend to use it I will just have to deal with it. No real solution.
 
There is a big difference in the technology. The Garrett Propointer is a PI (Pulse Induction) detector, while the Minelab Pro-Find is VLF (Very Low Frequency). For this reason the Garrett will detect mineralization and will sound off when a bit of pressure is applied.

I did not notice any falsing with the Minelab at all.
 
Neil in West Jersey said:
There is a big difference in the technology. The Garrett Propointer is a PI (Pulse Induction) detector, while the Minelab Pro-Find is VLF (Very Low Frequency). For this reason the Garrett will detect mineralization and will sound off when a bit of pressure is applied.

I did not notice any falsing with the Minelab at all.
I don't know who told you that the garrett was a PI machine. The manual of the ProPointer says it has a operating frequency of 12 Khz... wouldn't that be a VLF as well.... ???
 
norbyx said:
Neil in West Jersey said:
There is a big difference in the technology. The Garrett Propointer is a PI (Pulse Induction) detector, while the Minelab Pro-Find is VLF (Very Low Frequency). For this reason the Garrett will detect mineralization and will sound off when a bit of pressure is applied.

I did not notice any falsing with the Minelab at all.
I don't know who told you that the garrett was a PI machine. The manual of the ProPointer says it has a operating frequency of 12 Khz... wouldn't that be a VLF as well.... ???

I stand corrected! Maybe it was the variable Pulse Rate for target proximity that I read which had me confused.
 
My vibra pointer interferes with the v3i but I can dig with it and it does not make a peep unless there is a target.
 
The problem with a pin pointer sounding off when pressure is applied to the shaft, is that shaft is a coil, and unless it's filled with epoxy then the windings will distort and even a little distorting due to pressure/flexing will cause falsing. That's why most coils are filled with epoxy, because coil winding alignment is critical to stability and performance. If you ever use a coil that isn't rated waterproof there is a good chance to instability due to temperature changes, bumps, or rough swinging, all of which can distort the windings for moments in time. Is that Minelab filled with epoxy in the shaft? It if is then it should be stable even with stress on the shaft for the most part, but I bet it would then weigh a good bit more than the Garrett, even if the Minelab is using micro ballon technology (something they mix with epoxy to make it lighter) that is the reason why epoxy filled coils these days are so much lighter than they used to be years ago.

A lot of solid (pancake) coils of yesterday were not filled with epoxy in order to save weight, while spiderweb coils almost always were even back then, but they were heavy compared to modern spiderweb coils due to the micro balloon thing. That's one reason why the old BBS 8 and 10" coils on the Sovereign/Excal were boat anchors, while the modern versions (Tornados) of these coils are so much lighter. A non-epoxy filled coil can not be rated waterproof, and while some use them in water they have a tendency to float, and if it gets one pin hole in the coil case it's probably lights out for the coil. Surprisingly, I'm told the new 13" Ultimate coils are only rated water resistant. These are super light coils for their size, so I suspect they aren't epoxy filled. Filling a coil with epoxy is the only way to lesson the risk of water finding it's way into the coil's windings and any electronic components it may have (some do).

An easy way to tell if a solid coil is epoxy filled is not only by weight, but try pinching the coil with your thumb on top. Does the plastic dent in? Then chances are it's not epoxy filled. I owned a certain white coil (solid with a hole in the middle, but no names) for a certain line of machines made by an aftermarket company. It was the only 12" coil I could get for these machines and so I wanted one to push my depths deeper. While I had heard some others say the coil worked great and got them more depth, on my particular model (same frequency/same coil compatibility) would go bonkers after about ten minutes of use. No amount of lowering sensitivity, turning the machine on or off, removing the battery, or anything would fix it.

Hmmmm...Must be EMI? So I move to a remote site down the road. Same deal. 10 minutes in and it goes bonkers again. This happened for about 3 days and drove me nuts trying to figure out. I even sent the coil back and got another new one thinking it was a bad coil. Ten minutes with this one and I pop one or two pretty deep mercs, deeper than I ever dug with this machine before! Success! Nope...A few minutes later and this coil went bonkers too! Drove down the road. Worked fine for 10 minutes, then same deal all over again.

So I sent that coil back and got a refund. Up until about 2 years ago when I started researching making my own coils, I never could figure out the mystery of what that coil was doing. Then it dawned on me after researching how to build my own coils. That stupid coil was white for a very good reason. It wasn't filled with epoxy to keep it's weight down, and so the coil would warm up in the sun after about 10 minutes and the windings would move ever so slightly out of alignment and the thing would go nuts! AHA! Coil winding alignment is even more critical on concentric coils than DD coils. For that reason, to this day, I am always suspicious of white coils. Why make a coil white? It seems kind of illogical when it's being moved around in the dirt. That coil was white for a very good reason...to try to keep it from heating up in the sun.

Now, I'm not knocking all white coils as being as delicate as that coil was. I've seen a few modern white coils (such as the Ultimate, although I hear they make it in black now too) that are white, and yet it seems to be getting some very good reviews. Even if a coil's windings are secured well without using epoxy and shouldn't move due to temperature changes, being white should help keep the coil in super tight alignment so it performs perhaps a hair better and thus allows slightly higher sensitivity settings perhaps, so by all means don't avoid a white modern coil even if it's not filled with epoxy, as technology has come a long way since I first bought that white coil years ago. I'm going to be the first in line for an Ultimate when I have the spare money to see how it compares to my 12x10 (which I love), but I hear they make the Ultimate in black now, and just for cosmetic reasons alone I would rather get my hands on a black one, if not for any superstitions I've developed over the years.
 
Neil in West Jersey said:
There is a big difference in the technology. The Garrett Propointer is a PI (Pulse Induction) detector, while the Minelab Pro-Find is VLF (Very Low Frequency). For this reason the Garrett will detect mineralization and will sound off when a bit of pressure is applied.

I did not notice any falsing with the Minelab at all.

I just read somewhere where the Minelab is falsing on red dirt with any kind of pressure. Not sure if that's just a red dirt thing or if it's a pressure thing, but I suspect unless that wand on it is filled with epoxy it's going to false with pressure just like the Garrett. I don't see what the big deal is anyway about that, because nobody should be jamming the tip of a pinpointer into the ground with enough kind of force to make it false. Applying hard pressure to the soil isn't going to make it get any deeper. It's not a knife. :biggrin:

There was just a video posted of an actual field hunt in the main forum where the two pinpointers went head to head on actual hunts. Some real interesting results there so I won't spoil the ending for you guys. Let's just say I was shocked myself to see that video.
 
Neil, maybe I goofed but my post reply, as I usually try to do, had a subject heading directed toward Critterhunter's comments about coil colors. I miss now and then, but do try to direct my post response based on the subject heading. Oh, and I do still prefer a white colored coil. :bouncy:

Now, as to Pin-pointers, I found your post to not ask a question but just give your opinions on what you have experienced so far. So, let me add my opinions. I haven't had the Pro-Find in hand yet to evaluate, but I have heard from a couple of people who said they DID get EMI problems with their detectors. Naturally, a lot can be based upon what detector it is, the sensitivity levels, coils used, and how close the pin-pointer and detector or coil actually are.

One person said ti was a little more responsive than his Garrett Pro-Pointer, but the other fellow said it had a little edge on the Pro-Pointer. I think the Pro-Find's suggested retail price might have something to do with how popular it might or might not be, and for now I am going to stick with my Garrett Pro-Pointer because I have it and it works. I'll upgrade soon when something comes along I like better.

Give us an update in a month or so after you have used the Pro-Find and Pro-Pointer more in some side-by-side in the field comparisons. That ought to be interesting.

Monte
 
I just think this forum is a great resource for newbies and more experienced users alike, and staying on topic helps keep it organized!

I don't get out much this time of year, but did for a bit last weekend, using mainly the ML. Honestly, the performance is on par with the Garrett. I found the On-Off button to be less accessable for some reason, but maybe I am just used to the Garrett. Other than that, and the other features, it is hard to tell the two apart.
 
There is a 2 page thread or so on the first or second page of the main forum where some videos were posted comparing the Pro Pointer and the new Minelab. Check out I think the second to last video as they went head to head in an actual hunt and the results were interesting to say the least.

As to the whole coil/epoxy thing...Modern coils filled with epoxy are much lighter because I believe they might be using advancements in technology called micro balloons that they mix with the epoxy to trap air in it and thus drop a good bit of weight. That kind of technology is used a lot in RC electric plane construction when using epoxy to glass large wings for rigidity. It cuts the weight down a ton while still providing the same structural integrity to the wing.

Oh, and Monte...I know what you mean about dogs. She was my best friend in so many ways. Never going to forget that soul and the way she loved to tell stories.
 
Neil,

I really don't know if my Garrett Pro pointer interferes with my V3i or not. Generally, the first thing I do when I bend down to dig is push the Menu button to silence the detector.
The Minelab pointer looks to be well made, but right now I will stick with my Pistol Probe(pulse unit) and my Pro pointer. I carry and use both. I spot probe with the Pistol Probe to help determine the object location, then switch to the Pro pointer.
As mentioned in some of the other posts, guys are sticking the Pro pointer into the dirt and in some cases applying enough pressure to produce falsing. I know Garrett advertised being able to scrape the dirt, using the molded in ridge line, not sure they would expect force full probing if that's what really is happening? I barely poke my Pro pointer or Pistol probe into the dirt. Course with the extreme drought we have had this year and the hardened, dry soil, that may be causing some of the current observations?

Anyway, Neil I hope you like the Minelab unit, keep us posted on how it works out.
 
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