Please define your definition of an air test maximum distance

[Lipservice]

Assuming the detector... e.g. CZ-3D (new model) (GB 10/Vol max/Disc 0/Sens 4.5)... is set to it's optimum settings for air testing, in a place with no EMI interference, fresh batteries, headphones, etc. What would you call a maximum distance (clad dime) high tone 'hit' volume/signal integrity wise? Disregard the meter. I am talking about a 'real world' high tone hit you would dig in the field. Not a super silent indistinct, wide, whisper sound no one would ever hear in the field, you only would even notice it in an air test.

I have read several posts on forums about air testing the CZ-3D. 11" seems to be a common claim. But is that a hit you would dig in the field? I have watched Tom Dankowski's DVD twice now. The section about his test garden is amazing to say the least! He is using what I assume is a prototype CZ-3D. He hits clad dimes at various depths with it. It progresses to a 12" deep clad dime that gets a solid, be it subtle, 4 way hit any one of us would dig!

I went to the city park in my small town today. It is pretty old. Years ago I worked it over a few times (before I moved here) and found a small handfull of silver each time with a CZ-7. Down to 8~9". I went there today with the new CZ-3D and dug coins up like no tomorrow. Going slow and using 0 disc./Volume max/QZ99 headphones. Going slow and methodically the 8" coil worked between the trash great! 78 coins and a silver ring in 3 hours. And an unbelievable layer of 4~5" nickels in there. Seems half the coins were nickels. No silver coins, and just a couple of wheat pennies. The deepest coin was 6" (wheat cent). I had been hunting for perhaps 15 minutes...then to my amazement... I was looking at the date on a wheatie I just dug up. I looked up an there was a an older guy standing there with a metal detector watching me! Really a nice guy. We got to talking. He said I was the 1st person he had seen with a metal detector in 1 1/2 years. He had driven clear over here (Valley, Nebraska) from Iowa on a tip he got from someone. He was using a Whites Spectra V3 updated to a V3i. He was an experienced user, he told me his 1st detector was a Whites 6000D so I figured he had been detecting for several years. When I was quitting for the day he was across the park so I walked over there to see what he had found and get his email address, etc. He showed me his goodies. He had found 8 or 9 coins. I scooped into my apron and showed him my finds. I had found 10 coins for every 1 he found. He was impressed... I WASN'T!
I am not trying to be arrogant here folks. I was discouraged! My deepest coin was 6" and no silver coins... that I know are in there.

I went home (5 blocks away). I pondered my finds. It was bugging me.

I came back! No EMI in the park so I grabbed a plastic ruler determined to do a perfect air test.

Air test results using a clad dime I had dug up, using headphones (GB 10/Vol max/Disc 0/Sens 4.5) Never looked at the meter.
6" nice loud, solid hit (high tone ping)
7" not as loud, solid hit (high tone ping)
8" VERY soft volume, questionable hit, semi high tone (coin) ping bouncing back and forth with tabs tone ping. If I was hunting I might or might not dig it. Not nearly the quality hit Tom gets on a 12" dime in his test garden (DVD)
9"~12" I could hear something... more like a wide interference like sound. Is this what some are calling their air test max results? I do not. No tone IDs. In the real world I would never dig it. Probably wouldn't even hear it at 10"~12" in the ground.

Now to bury the dime for a ground test. No metal or readings in the ground before I buried it. Break out the ruler time! (GB 4.5/Vol max/Disc 0/Sens 4.5). Using headphones. Coil nice and close to/on the ground.
6" nice loud, solid hit (high tone ping). I'd dig it
7" not as loud, solid hit (high tone ping) I'd dig it
7 1/2" VERY soft volume, questionable hit, semi high tone (coin) ping bouncing back and forth with tabs tone ping. If I was hunting I might or might not dig it. Not nearly the quality hit Tom gets on a 12" dime in his test garden (DVD)
8" I could hear something... more like a wide interference like sound. No tone IDs. In the real world I would probably never dig it.
9" I must be deaf. I can not hear anything.
10" Same result as 9"

8" clad dimes (equals 7 1/2" silver dimes?) are probably safe from me with the 8" loop. I have a 10 1/2" loop coming... maybe that will get the 8 inchers if there is not much trash. I have a new 5" loop I have not tried yet. Should be good for the clads and zinc pennies.

<end long winded rant>

 

[Lipservice]

Well I headed out to the old park again today after church for 3 1/2 hours to give it another go. I found out the park has been in use since the 1880s.
Found 112 coins today. 2 wheat cents... a 1947 @ 6 1/2" and a 1941 at 6 3/4" and a 1946 nickel at 6 1/4" all were carefully excavated and measured.



All the rest were clad/zinc/newer/shallower/etc. I got bored with digging up newer stuff so I went to the outfield of one of the fenced in ballfields. Nice black dirt with no metal readings. I buried a clad dime at exactly 8".
Checked the detectors settings GB 4.5/Sens 4.5/Volume Max/Dic 0. I swept that coin from every angle and speed.
I could hear something... more like a very, very, soft wide sound. No tone IDs. I looked at the meter and it was bouncing to foil. It would not pinpoint/read the depth either... like nothing was there. I would never even consider digging
a signal like that coin hunting.

The detector is just a killer on coins down to 7". And I am really impressed at it's performance on nickels. I just love it except for it's depth performance.
At 8" forget it. Today I lost all confidence of ever finding a dime at 7 1/2" plus. I have several places I would love to take it that have Seated/Barber/Indianheads/etc but I am not wasting my gas and time to drive to them with my confidence
level in this detector being what it is for deep coins. In the past I have had 8 or 9 detectors that would detect an 8"+ dime. I've found plenty of them.

Could anyone with a CZ-3D do me a favor and bury a clad dime at 8" and post back with your results using your CZ-3D on it? Are you getting any tone ID at all?

I want this to work out for me so bad. I bought a new 5" loop (have not tried it) and have a new 10 1/2" loop coming. I'd take a real finacial hit if I had to sell off this package. I absolutely am not interested in keeping the detector for hunting new schools/new parks/new houses for modern coins. I lost interest in that kind of detecting 30 years ago. The CZ-3D is NOT billed as 'Tot-Lot' detector and I will not keep it if that is what it performs like.

Hindsight is always 20-20. Should I just have waited and found a proven 1021 or 1121 Los Banos CZ-3D from a trustwothy seller?

 

[YODAinMN]

Looks like you got some great scores on your 3d. Maybe you should do thetest with a smaller coil and compare the results. I just picked up a CZ-7a Pro and wat to check out the depth on the factory coil. It's been rainy here ever since I got it but I'm hoping the weather will be nice to run it at my local park tomorrow. Nice grabs!

 

[Mr.Bill]

Mr Lipservice

I think your trying to relate to what Tom did in his ground, to what's happening to you in your hunting area. Big mistake. Unless your hunting in the same spot that Tom was hunting in, I seriously doubt you will be able to duplicate his test.

No Disrespect, but I think in time you will come to realize that your performance is very individualized to you, & your location. This apply's to all metal detectorest. No ground is the same everywhere. Mineralization plays a large part in what you find, and the depth you can find it at. A place with low mineralization, your depth will approach the depth in a air test. The heavier the mineralization, the less depth.

From what you posted, I would say your unit is doing just fine.

Mr. Bill

 

[tvr]

Lipservice,
A fresh buried coin at 8 inches isn't the same as one that has settled to that depth; particularly if there is any soil mineralization involved. Have had several times where I did the experiment of digging a fairly deep target that sounded off very well; then dropped it back in the hole covering with the same dirt and heard nothing.

With a CZ, I've also found that it took me a lot of use to start getting better depth. Mainly I was swinging it too fast; but there are other familiarization gains that happen with more time on the detector.
tvr

 

[Lipservice]

I bought the detector new from Tom Dankowsi a week ago. He personally selected it and tuned it. Tom designed the CZ-3D and is the go to man on it.
I returned it this morning and he is getting another CZ-3D ready for me. He concurs something has went wrong with this unit. On a side note a guy took
me up on burying a clad dime at 8" and testing his CZ-3D on it.

This test showcases the real capability of a Dankowski tuned CZ-3D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=302sFETnog8

IMHO this CZ-3D would have smacked that dime at 10"