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Quattro "Nulls during swing " ? :shrug:

D

Dennis 2

Member
The other day I was detecting a lawn at an old house ( 1700's ) .I set the Quattro up in Coin Mode ( also tried the other three modes) .Noses Canceled and started to detect . Well during the swing the detector would "Null" . The only time the Threshold would return is when I would pick up the coil off the ground . But as soon as I started to swing the coil again it would Null Out .Figured it might be the Volume ,but it didn't matter what I set it at it did the same thing .Checked it out when I got home and it worked fine.... Threshold set at 9 and I had a slight Hum as I swung . I did find and old button . But if it Nulled like it did I must have missed some good targets . What would cause this .
I hunted there before with a Tesoro , and a Fisher never had this happen before .
Thanks
Dennis
 
You mentioned the volume, though I have no idea why. The volume has no effect on how it swings, how sensitive it is, or how much it nulls. And if you had a slight hum going, then the threshold is right.

What you didn't mention was where you were running the sensitivity, which would have everything to do with it. If you are in "Auto" or have it set to a reasonable level, then I would look elsewhere for the problem. But if the sensitivity is being run manual, then you may have it set too high. I would say for that type of hunting, any manual setting of 16 or more may be too high. The other possibilities would be having it in a mode where iron is discriminated out and there's a lot of iron in the ground. The All Metal mode would be the only one that you could use in that case...then you would be able to hear the iron instead of nulling and probably catch any nearby non-ferrous targets as well. You're right though, when it's nulling, you're missing targets. The other possibility is that your sweep speed was too fast for conditions. The other machines you mention can be used with a faster sweep and have a faster "recovery" speed (reset between targets) than the Quattro. It could be as simple as you need to SLOW DOWN. Try it and see, because you need to go SLOW at sites like that with the Quattro. Which may sound like a drag, until you start pulling those deep silvers those other machines missed. Oh, another thing...have you changed the setting for Low Trash/High Trash Density? If you're at a trashy site and running "Low", you may do better trying "High". Although I prefer low...you get more deep stuff.

I saw your "Sweep Speed" question on the Quattro forum. How slow is "slow", you say? Well...S-L-O-W. Rather than give you a speed, I will say that your sweep needs to be no faster than what you can do and still maintain a steady threshold. That's the key. If you don't have that, you either need to open up your accepted targets, crank down the sensitivity, or slow down your sweep.

My method at a site like that would be to run All Metal mode or no more disc than Relic mode, run the sensitivity it about 17, sweep slowly, and listen to the symphony of sounds and pick out the good ones from it. It's worked well for me.

Hope some of that is of use to you...
 
Dennis,

The only reason the Quattro or Explorer null is because the machine is passing over something you have discriminated out. Nulling is normal and with you being used to other machines it may take some getting used to for you. To understand what I mean find a clean piece of ground that doesn't make your machine null out. Now put something in that spot that you have discrimated out and the Quattro/Explorer will null when the coil passes over the target. I had the same concerns as you when I first picked up my Explorer a few years ago. Believe me they can still detect a coin fine even when the machine is 'nulling'. You're just used to what most manufacters call 'silent search'. I am 99.9% sure this is the 'problem' you are experiencing... which really isn't a problem. Hope this helps you some.

-Bill
 
Passing over something that is discriminated out is ONE reason the Quattro or Explorer would null out but certainly not the ONLY reason. Since "nulling out" and "losing the threshold" are the same thing, running the sensitivity too high or sweeping too fast will do it too. You say it's normal but let's look at what he said again:

The only time the Threshold would return is when I would pick up the coil off the ground . But as soon as I started to swing the coil again it would Null Out

So ANYTIME he swings, AT ALL, it's normal for it to null? I think not. If that were the case I don't think too many people would want a Minelab. That doesn't sound like a case of going over things that he has discriminated out to me. It sounds like he's running it too hot or sweeping too fast. Or detecting with big steel-toed boots with metal eyelets.

If the machine is properly set then some nulling and threshold loss is normal but not what he described.
 
I have been at some old houses where there is all null, due to nails galore in the ground. The closer you are to the house the worst it is. I have to turn down sens. to 8 to 12 just to get some threshold back. the closer the targets are together the slower you have to swing.
 
Mike,

I stand by my answer and respectful disagree with you. I have used the Explorer for over 4 years and am very familiar with what it will and won't do. A Quattro would be slightly different but the threshold issue would be the same. He is hunting a 1700's house... nulling is a fact of life at those kinds older sites. I hunt iron infested sites all of the time and am familiar with what he's experiencing is due to more to iron than any other issues. I have never had a threshold null by running my Explorer too hot. The Explorer tends to start 'chirping and popping' or the threshold can make a thump, thump sound when I have the sensitivity up too high but it doesn't null. Hunting in almost a complete null is normal at alot of the sites I hunt. This is due to iron and not anything else. I have lowered the sensitivity and that has NEVER helped at those kinds of sites. I hunt in IM-13 with conduct tones.

You said, "So ANYTIME he swings, AT ALL, it's normal for it to null? I think not." Depending on the site it is normal. That is one of the biggest complaints about the Explorer is that the LCD never updates until the threshold returns. If you're hunting in a complete null the only information you have is the sound ID. That is why alot of us only go by sound ID. I can take you to several sites I hunt that are almost a complete null around the foundation no matter what you do. This is due to iron because if you move away from the foundation the threshold returns and doesn't null as much. It would logically stand to reason that the ground doesn't change that much between the foundation and 15 yards out at almost all of the older houses I hunt.

He can pretty much find out very quickly what his issue is. Put the detector in auto sensitivity to see if it still nulls and verifies what I am saying. Minelab's auto sensitivity algorithm errors on the side of running the machine slight below optimum sensitivity. That should answer his issue real quick.

Naturally, what you are saying about the threshold affecting the detector does make sense. But, remember that turning the sensitivity up allows the detector to detect deeper objects and that DOES affect the threshold. Ground Balance can also affect a normal machine's threshold. But, since the Explorer/Quattro don't technically have a GB that does not come into play here.

-Bill
 
Dennis,

Or I am just showing my ignorance on the Quattro features. It seems that the obvious thing to do is to run a test with no discrimination at all. This way you would hear every target. This would then tell you whether or not the detector is being driven into a null by rejected targets.

HH,
Glenn
 
All well-taken points and I can see that what you're saying may well be true. But I didn't think that, given the information he provided, that we could say that was definitely the problem. We STILL don't know anything about his settings because he hasn't said.

I hunt in IM -16 with the Explorer so I can't say it happens much to me. With my Quattro though I often hunted at manual sensitivity of 18 on the 20 scale and hunted some iron rich sites as well as some very clean sites. And with the Quattro, it WAS possible (as I'm sure a few here can attest) to set the sensitivity hot and go too fast and lose the threshold. Where if you slowed down, the threshold would return. But again, I think we need some more info and for Dennis to try a few of our suggestions before we can say what his problem is for sure.

I know that if I were hunting my old standby "The Barber House" with either machine set to factory mode it WOULD be a near continuous null because the place is literally full of nails, rooftacks, and other ferrous garbage.

HH

 
If theres lots of iron and even the least bit of disc, it will null as soon as you move the coil.. I have lots of places I hunt the explorer never comes out of a null at -15 iron mask, however moving away from the site the threshold returns, so its definately iron, but that may or may not be his problem.. Highly iron mineralized ground can do the same thing as well. while it might not get the best performance and deepest stuff, It will still pick off most stuff through a null.. In extreme cases though you might not even hear a target on top of the ground
 
Your Quattro is nulling when you have a too fast swing speed because the coil is seeing more discriminated targets quicker. Slowing down only serves to give the Quattro time to reset and possibly see 'clean' ground and thus return the threshold momentarily. Almost of same thing with adjusting the sensitivity. Running higher in sensitivity can make the machine see more targets and make it seem like the threshold is the problem. The Explorer is definitely capable of seeing targets in a complete null providing the sweep speed is slow enough. I agree that most newbie Minelab user have a tendency to swing the coil way too fast. That is probably part of his problem. Being a 1700's house it would *probably* be safe to assume that it has alot of iron in the ground. I can't ever remember hunting a pre-1900's home that didn't have it's share of iron unless it was backfilled. But, then I've always been told not to assume... :) I agree we need more information from him to be able to give him a useful directions.

Like I said, with the places I hunt it's not unusual to hunt in a complete null which really isn't a problem with the proper swing speed.

-Bill
 
Being new to the Quattro, I've also had the same problem with the Quattro as Dennis has. BUT, after more time with the Quattro, everything Mike and Bill have been saying is very true. SWEEP SLOW. So far, I have found many coins(nothing too old)next to trash, but because I was sweeping slow I was able to hear the nice bell tone and then low tone, and then zone in on the bell tone and pick up a 59' memorial at 5". At times though, I do tend to sweep fast just loosing concentration, but then the threshold dissapears and I know I am sweeping too fast. So all in all, I believe Mike and Bill are right on, just sweep slower and you should have somewhat of a continuous threshold.
 
You Maybe right , but like I said I did try all four" MODES".......Maybe they have an electric fence ( For Dogs ) ..... Going back Monday to try again .
Dennis 2
 
Hay Guys ,First I want to thank you all . I'm going back there Next week and I will try everything that you said . I'll get back to you as soon as I can and tell you what did and didn't work .
Many Thanks to all of you
Hunt Well
Dennis 2
 
This comment has me confused. I don't think he meant if you run it hot it will null, I think he meant if you run it hot you will be picking up multiple iron targets under and around coil from greater distances and it will stay in a nulling state longer. Depending how far targets are away from each other. Lowering sens. will just help coil from being saturated with multiple targets and easier to seperate and hear a threshhold now and then. It for sure loses depth, but I sure have no problem finding old good coins at 6" to 8"with sens. set at 12-14...this is why we all must change our settings at the site to figure out what works best. I see too much staying with what Joe blow uses and never breaking out and trying something completely different. Experiment experiment experiment!! I have one setup that I usually use...It mimicks charlies dead on setup (self taught cause I experimented) not by reading it...ironicly...but when that is not working I change setup and usually find what works best for this particular site. If the site is one big null, I usually turn down sens. to get shallower targets, and enhance seperation of targets. If I have to I dig up some iron to see what is going on...if it is a lot of nails....I move on to better pastures or go real slow and burn up a lot of valuable time trying to get maybe one old coin. I save those spots for when I have nothing better to do..it is not an uncommon thing to go home with nothing but Iron...If you stick to one way hunting...Take off the blinders folks and try something NEW! The Explorer or Quattro will find it.
Didn't mean to ramble...got carried away....sorry. :blowup:
 
The threshold isn't nulled by the sensitivity being too high it's nulled by seeing more targets. I am not mincing words just trying to make the point the Explorer/Quatrro null on rejected targets. But doesn't null by having the sensitivity too high. There's a difference... if it's nulling it's seeing something it has discriminated out.

Anyone that has hunted with me can definitely verify I am not afraid to adjust my approach by trying a different coil, changing settings, etc. I am a believer you have to adjust to be really good at detecting. With my totals for 2004 being 79 silver and 44 IHs from mostly hunted hard parks... I know the Explorer very well. That in itself isn't a tremendous amount of silver but considering they came from pounded parks in my area... it is saying something. My hunting buddy uses an Explorer and hunts with me every time I hunt. Last year, he had 10 silver to my 79 silver. How you adjust to conditions is very important in my area to your totals. There's alot of detectorist in my area. Initially it was frustrating but by them cleaning out the easier targets I believe it has made me alot better with my machines. HH!

-Bill
 
Zackly....and after I posted that, I finished reading below and now I see that is what you meant...but before reading lower one that is what it looked like you were saying to him. Oh Never mind....we both know what we meant....next!
 
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