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question re. 'semi-automatic sensitivity'

swingman

New member
I've used my SE for 15 hours so far, and have chosen to run it at Sens. 32 in semi-auto mode - until I get to know the machine better. It has been remarkably stable in all environments...but I've come to wonder if I'm missing targets.
I'd like your opinions - as I'm running it, am I likely losing depth and detectability? Would I be better off in 'manual' and scaling back the 'juice' to where I stop getting noise? Or is that what semi-auto is doing anyway? Thanks. (I tend to sweep quite slowly in any case.)
 
Well, it depends of course on the type of ground you are running in, but I DO think you are losing depth. And I suggest an experiment.

Set your sensitivity at manual 18 and run your noise cancel. Unless you are in some bad ground, it should be pretty darn stable there. Now hunt that way for a while. Find some deeper targets, like in the 6 to 10" range...and yes, it WILL go that deep easy at 18. When you find a good 8" or better target, switch to semi-auto 32 and see what happens to the quality of the signal. Try it in manual too, going UP from 18, and see what happens to the quality of the signal and your stability. You might be surprised.

I have a TOUGH test garden with some various deep coin targets and a couple CW bullets. The ground is hard and dry and there's an underground power line nearby that affects the machine as well. All targets are 6-8" and deeper, down to over 10". My SE does best at 18 to 20 manual and the signal degrades above 22 real bad. And in semi-auto, most of the targets aren't even there. I'm not saying that semi-auto or higher settings are useless...just that very often people run sens WAY too high and also that semi-auto may provide very stable operation but is not that hot on depth. I also recommend fast off and deep on for best results, though many will argue that. I only know what works best for me in my areas. And the only way for you to know is to test it frequently until you figure it out for yourself what works for YOU in YOUR areas.
 
After reading some of the posts this fall about the semi/auto debate I did a little playing around late in the season. I've been a manual sensitivity person for several years. And like with many things you get in the habit of doing thought it might be smart to undo it for a while.

And I'm back to manual.

First- for everyone who hasn't tried this yet. Go outside and find some clean ground away from power lines. Set your sensitivity at 1 manual and sweep a silver dime. Note how far you can lift the coil before you lose the signal. As you start to lose it notice the signal starts breaking up and sounding more like iron. Now switch to Semi-Auto sensitivity. Keep the sensitivity setting at 1. Now see how far you can lift the coil? Much, much more than in manual. Now go back to Manual and start bumping up the sensitivity until you can detect at the same coil height as you were getting at 1 Semi-Auto. I usually get up to 12 or 14.

Now do the same experiment in front of your TV or computer with the power on. Turn up the sensitivity in manual until it becomes unstable. (You might not get it above the single digits). See how far from the coil you can detect that dime. Now go to Semi-Auto. Get the picture? Much more electrical noise in front of your TV and your explorer responded accordingly.

Here are my two cents worth: The main(perhaps almost only) reason to adjust sensitivity is because of ambient electrical noise. If you have too high of a sensitivity in an electrically noisy environment the detector will be responding to noise, sensitivity a little too high and you will get a degraded signal from targets in the ground, way too high and the machine will sound like a possessed pin ball machine and not pick up a target even if it is a millimeter from the coil. Noise canceling can help slightly but for most noise generated by power lines it has little effect. I can usually only see a gain of a notch or two of sensitivity by changing channels.

Auto sensitivity takes care of this problem for you; if it sees too much noise it will lower the sensitivity for you. And that is problem #1; Semi-Auto generally strives for a more stable detector than most experienced users deem necessary, and that can cause you to loose depth.

So Mike, If you can only run 18-20 manual I wouldn't be surprised that in auto it tuned itself down to the single digits, and that is why you lost the targets. You can't run more than 18-20 manual because of the noise from the power lines. I often detect in town and have to run around 12-15 manual in many location. Any higher the detector goes nutty and signal quality decreases.

BUT...

If your test garden was out in the country away from power lines you could crank up the sensitivity up much higher and generally get better depth than you do with your current test garden. You saw signal quality deteriorate at higher manual sensitivities but I'm certain that has to do with where you are and should not be a generalization to decrease sensitivity everywhere.

I don't think ground mineralization have anything to do with where you set sensitivity, the explorer with DD coils will automatically compensate, BUT mineralization will affect the depth at which you are able to detect and correctly ID targets.

I can buy the argument that in high trash environments certain signals will sound better at lower levels because you are not picking every little chunk o' junk.

Problem #2 with Semi-Auto: Adjusting the sensitivity down because of ambient electrical noise is often a good thing, even if it seems to over do it. The problem I see is that the explorer cannot always tell the difference between the noise caused from electrical interference and the noise generated by sweeping your coil over many targets. If you are wading through a ton of trash even in an area away from power lines I believe the detector will detune. But even in high trash there will be less trashy spaces where you would do better at higher sensitivities.

Getting back to the original experiment: I went to one of my favorite sites where I have found many good coins. On part of the site a building had burned down and iron trash and some melted bits of goodies everywhere. I've pulled many coins from between the nails but the signals are getting fewer and farther between.

Anyways, this day I ran the sens up in manual as I usually do, but then before detecting hit the semi/auto button several times without counting so I didn't know what mode I was in. I kept randomly hitting switching modes between targets, (and did switch back over targets). I had a couple of deep hits that I was sure that I would have been in manual, but was surprised to see that I was in Semi. Hmmm. And then I had a couple of times that I had a perfectly solid threshold for several yards. I knew there was more junk than that and sure enough I was in Semi and it had detuned. Turned around and went back over the same area in Manual and got some good hits.

Bottom line is that in Auto you don't know where you are.

Which brings us to problem #3. In auto the detector is supposed to adjust itself to the local conditions. I'm not sure how quickly it responds going from electrical noisy to less noisy or visa versa, or from higher to lesser concentrations of trash. A few times I've had a hit in manual, got in in Semi when I switched over, but after detecting in Semi for a while and going back over the target it was gone; the detector had detuned.

So... I would swear to everyone that manual is the way to go except that GoldDigger and several others run in Semi and detect circles around me.

Chris
 
Hi Chris,

From some experiments I have done running 32 semi auto in most cases will lose depth like you wont believe,lower it to around 22 and it gets more depth. This area was where a side walk was and was tore up, so I tried semi auto at 32 and it ran smooth, but could not see a dime on top of the ground unless the coil touched it. I took it out of semi auto and left it at 32, but it was very unstable. Lowered the sensitivity to 22 and it was decent and had good depth on the dime. Now I went back to auto and it was not as good as manual so I lowered it to 16 and seen in auto or manual it was the same. My conclusion was that the higher the sensitivity is in auto the more it will compensate for noise or bad trash in the ground and feel about 16-18 either way will be about the same, now if lower the 16 auto will do the best. Now the only place auto would be OK at 32 auto sensitivity will be where you can run 32 manual sensitivity in my opinion. I don't think I would run auto any place I couldn't run manual at the same number and be stable.
All anyone has to do is try it themselves and find a area where it is unstable in a higher sensitivity and then switch to auto and it will quiet down, but put a dime on top of the ground and see how far away you can get the dime. Now go back to manual and turn it down so it is stable and see how far away you can pick up that dime.Now put it back to auto and go max on sensitivity and see how much depth you have. I think you will see why I say the higher the sensitivity is in auto the more it will compensate and like you say may go to a single number. I like to do this where there is a lot of iron trash or disc out so it will null and place a dime right on the null and see how far away I can get a signal in auto, manual and try different sensitivity settings to see where it will work the best. Now I am careful when and if I use auto as I like control of my sensitivity so I use manual most of the time.
 
In some VERY mineralized ground in the foothills, I have found I can run Sens. 32 Man. & get ground scorching depth...this same ground used to give my MXT fits...this is in an area that is far away from any power lines or underground cables & the only time I start getting unstable is when the park ranger is nearby & probably on his radio. Downtown it's a VERY different story...The ground is VERY mellow unless I'm over trash or certain areas that I believe are recent up-rooted trees, but running the sensitivity at 32 manual here, the detector will be stable but absolutly sucks depth wise until I run down to 18-24...right now I'm thinking that ANY kind of radio or electrical interferance is going to have a negative influance on depth, but hey...I'm new...If I ever figure out how to get the depth downtown, that I get in the foothills, you can expect me to be posting some more silver pics...you guys got me to thinking again... I think today I may have to make the trip downtown just to try some different things....TT
 
I do a lot of reading and experimenting and personally like to use manual where I have control.Sem-auto may or may not be subject to outside influences and may overcompensate. Certainly either may have its plus or minus variables depending on your neck of the woods and certainly many do well with either.I like the idea of experimenting once you hit a deep target as its really an eye opener. In addendum Minelab gives us a choice and its up to us to find out what works for the operator. I feel before reading a post one should in his mind add in my neck of the woods as what works for one may not for another as few have identical setups which may have an influence plus or minus..
I really don't feel there is a stock answer so get out in the field and experiment and see what works best for you. Remember Minelab gives you choices and its up to the operator to use them wisely.
 
Thanks Mike, you answered my question before I asked it. I made a brand new test garden today to check my new SE. Had quarters, laid flat, at 10" and 8". Couldn't see either one of them......BUT, I had my sens set at 32 semi-auto. Now I know what to try. (also had deep on, fast off, noise cancel, etc.)
 
Well, that's not the WHOLE story either. Lowering the sensitivity or going to manual may work, but freshly buried coins in a "brand new" test garden are not a good test. Until they are buried for YEARS the coins will not have the "halo" created by the effects of the soil on the metal and the slow decomposition of the coin as it leeches out its metallic "ooze" into the soil around it and creates the positively charged field around it that metal detectors love. Freshly buried coins, like air-tests, do not give much meaningful data as to the ability of a detector or the efficiency of various settings in "real world" conditions.

That said, the machine probably WILL get better depth in your test graden when set manually. What the best setting is will remain to be seen. I would suspect in the case of a fresh bury, higher will be better. Let us know how that goes.
 
>>> If your test garden was out in the country away from power lines you could crank up the sensitivity up much higher and generally get better depth than you do with your current test garden. <<<

I absolutely agree. In fact, out in the woods and the fields I frequently bump it up. And now that I've been running the little 4.5 x 7, I have frequently been running 30 to 32 manual. My point was simply that we need to get away from automatically running the sensitivity up as high as we possibly can (or THINK we can) because very often there are factors that can make that couterproductive. And I have a few sites that are chock full of rusty nails, roof tacks, and other ferrous stuff and the Explorer II and the SE both dif POORLY there with the sensitivity cranked up and much better with it down around 18 to 20. With the 10.5" coil, I should add. I don't have an 8" but do have the 5" and the elliptical and those can both be run hotter at the same sites.

Bottom line, there are no absolutes and no "right answers" because the biggest factors are the ground and conditions of the particular site in question. And of course the power line in my yard is the biggest problem there. When I made my coin garden I didn't know it was there. A few years later they had to dig it up for something. It's witin a few feet of my targets, which they didn't have to disturb. But when I had originally buried the targets I had a machine without a threshold. When I later got a DFX I started to know there was something electrical going on there. After that with my CZ-70 I once again couldn't tell it. And with the Explorers you CAN hear it...when you run them too hot, which is also when they lose all depth. The trick is getting to where you can determine through experience and familiarity with your machine just WHEN you have what kind of conditions and how to best adjust the machine for those conditions. I'm always working on that and usually will do a little adjustive testing with the first several deep targets I get at a site. Always trying to learn new tricks...
 
You might also try a tip that Mike gave to me a while back...Start out in manual sens. where stable but no more than say 24 & start hunting...The first "GOOD" signal you get at say 8" or so....Try adjusting the sens. for the best signal & as you gain depth adjust the sens. I was totally blown away by the results...sometimes less is more & sometimes more is more. In some places I can run at 32 & just smoke the area I'm in but more often than not I find that if I have the sensitivity too high I'm killing myself depthwise...TT
 
I just had an eye-opening experience today...I am new & still learning so take this for what it's worth....I have been hunting this downtown park that is full of trash for the last 2 1/2 mos. in semi-auto, thinking that the electronics could adjust "FASTER" than I ever could...I think I was wrong...I took it out of semi auto today & started "hearing" signals that I had never herd before...hmm...I have read a lot of posts saying that this is a turn-on&go detector...It is & it is not...To get the depth out of this detector, you CAN NOT run it in a trash area in semi auto & pick out coins that "others" have missed...Now this is my "OPINION" & nothing else...I still have some work to do..as I didn't dig many targets but instead went over the area in MASS that I have gone over MANY times in the past...after today I will NEVER hunt a high trash area in semi auto...like I said I am new to the SE but in my "Opinion" HEARING IT ALL IS WHERE YOU WILL SHINE....TT
 
I guess I just wanted to question another explorer "truth" that sensitivity needs to be adjusted because of ground mineralization and trash. I think 95% of the time local EMI conditions dictate where to set sensitivity.

A few months ago Barnacle Bill, a HAM radio electronic head made an interesting post about EMI being different in the ground. Many times I've noticed my explorer can be rock solid a foot in the air but once it hits the ground in a trashy environment it goes batty again.

I've wondered why powerlines cause so many problems because supposedly sine waves don't cause harmonics and major EMI. But my explorer says otherwise.

Need to bring this up on the classroom sometime and see what the electronic experts have to say.

Chris
 
Chris, when I was out in the farm field yesterday where I dug that LC and nice Naval button there is a huge communications tower nearby. At one point when I got witin a couple hundred feet of it the SE was "pulsing" a little but it was still seeming to hunt OK. It got to be a little worse so I ran the noise cancel again and it quieted right up. Another time recently I was at an old farm with nothing more than a simple set of power lines overhead and it was driving the SE nuts and no amount of noise cancel would help. The only solution was not to hunt near them. So yeah, it's very sensitive to that for sure. With so many frequencies it's tough not to run into SOMETHING, huh? But it seems to work well for us! :)
 
Well, along with invisible dog fences.

Generally the noise produced by powerlines happens over a pretty wide spectrum and noise cancel will do little here. Unfortunately most noise is from powerlines. Noise cancel does much better when trying to get away from a single frequency- like another detector. Perhaps the communications tower was another example.

Chris
 
and I did quite well with it. The problem is that the X-1 is not stable in manual and having to keep changing back and forth to locate a target got old. Now I also tried high and low sensetivity settings and for the most part I seldom run over 24. Most of the time I run 22 auto and I do quite well. Now since I ended 2006 with 464 silvers and did not hunt for three months after changing jobs the first week of May and being limited to three times a month to detect I really believe that those settings are working quite well. It is amazing just how much can be found with the explorer using a variety of different settings and I have come to the conclusion that nothing is right or wrong. I do not hold much stock in air tests. I do prefer to put it to work in the field and lets see just what we can do. I love competition!!! You know my hunting buddies. Ask them what they think. Just thought I would put my two cents in. OK so if they give you a penny for your thoughts then where did the other penny go to? Jim P.
 
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