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Question: What is the pulse delay when the Garrett Infinium's Disc dial is set to zero?
- Thread starter parrott
- Start date
Joel-Winnipeg
New member
You might get your answer on the ( Garrett Infinium Classroom Forum )
The reason I ask is knowing the minimum pulse delay in usec (when the Disc knob at "0") could be helpful to understand the greatest depth potentual. Also, knowing the maximum pulse delay (when the Disc knob at max "9" setting) all signals are reduced.
To say it another way: Knowing the pulse delay could be helpful when knowing the the "purity" (fineness) of gold being sought. The strongest signal from a gold nugget is at the shortest delay... This is true for all gold, the purest say at .925 a low conductor... or as another example, if it is electum (silver-gold alloy) which is now a high conductor.
Thus while using the Infinium it is best to dig all tones; both low and high conductor...But, knowing the minium delay value in usec, while academic, could be helpful so as not to advance the delay and miss any lower conductive smaller nuggets... (However as an example, I believe the range for the White's TDI is minium 10 usec and maximum at 25 usec). This is helpful for those using a White's TDI. Thus, knowing the pulse delay values in usec could also be helpful to those using a Garrett Infinium.
Both the Infinium and TDI share similarities: Both are low powered PI-types with ground balancing, Both are extemely efficient; but naturally they cannot "punch down"as the big battery high powered PI-types with ground balancing... Which may be better... I don't care to get into this... I do not have a TDI. Whichever is fine with me... I have also used a Big Battery PI.
Again... I do not care... But I have an Infinium, so this is my main interest...
There is a place for the low powered smaller battery PI's... This is why I'm interested in knowing the Pulse delay of the
Infinium...As a possible means in being able to understand "how to" get the best depth and sensitivity by being able to
"seat of the pants" correlate the delay with the purity--- what is alloyed with--- of the gold being sought. Raw depth isn't critical, it is the cleaness and steadyness of the threashold.
To say it another way: Knowing the pulse delay could be helpful when knowing the the "purity" (fineness) of gold being sought. The strongest signal from a gold nugget is at the shortest delay... This is true for all gold, the purest say at .925 a low conductor... or as another example, if it is electum (silver-gold alloy) which is now a high conductor.
Thus while using the Infinium it is best to dig all tones; both low and high conductor...But, knowing the minium delay value in usec, while academic, could be helpful so as not to advance the delay and miss any lower conductive smaller nuggets... (However as an example, I believe the range for the White's TDI is minium 10 usec and maximum at 25 usec). This is helpful for those using a White's TDI. Thus, knowing the pulse delay values in usec could also be helpful to those using a Garrett Infinium.
Both the Infinium and TDI share similarities: Both are low powered PI-types with ground balancing, Both are extemely efficient; but naturally they cannot "punch down"as the big battery high powered PI-types with ground balancing... Which may be better... I don't care to get into this... I do not have a TDI. Whichever is fine with me... I have also used a Big Battery PI.
Again... I do not care... But I have an Infinium, so this is my main interest...
There is a place for the low powered smaller battery PI's... This is why I'm interested in knowing the Pulse delay of the
Infinium...As a possible means in being able to understand "how to" get the best depth and sensitivity by being able to
"seat of the pants" correlate the delay with the purity--- what is alloyed with--- of the gold being sought. Raw depth isn't critical, it is the cleaness and steadyness of the threashold.
Hi Parrot,
I do not own an Infinium so I can't help you directly with the delay issue. However, if you know anyone who has one of Eric's latest detectors, or a Whites TDI, you might compare sensitivity to small gold to see just how they compare. This will give you an idea of the delay, especially, if you adjust the second detector so the sensitivity to a particular small gold object appears to be about the same between the Infinium and the second PI.
Since the Infinium is designed to work in salt water, my guess would be the minimum delay will be close to 15 usec or so, but that is merely a guess on my part. It would make sense.
On thing I feel needs to cleared up is the TDI is not a low powered PI. Eric's Goldquest is a low powered unit, but his Goldscan is a high powered PI just like the Whites.
Any depth difference between the TDI and other high powered PI's has to do more with the front end sensitivity of the detector, which is why the other PI's are so unstable in many areas where the TDI works very well.
Like you, I have one of the other "high powered" PI's and the TDI and, personally, I prefer the TDI because of the versatility as well as the stability. This, however, my opinion based upon where I normally use it also. I can't even come close to using the other brand in town or in other areas where there is any electrical interference at all. I can use my TDI or my GS 5 in such areas. For me, that is important.
Reg
I do not own an Infinium so I can't help you directly with the delay issue. However, if you know anyone who has one of Eric's latest detectors, or a Whites TDI, you might compare sensitivity to small gold to see just how they compare. This will give you an idea of the delay, especially, if you adjust the second detector so the sensitivity to a particular small gold object appears to be about the same between the Infinium and the second PI.
Since the Infinium is designed to work in salt water, my guess would be the minimum delay will be close to 15 usec or so, but that is merely a guess on my part. It would make sense.
On thing I feel needs to cleared up is the TDI is not a low powered PI. Eric's Goldquest is a low powered unit, but his Goldscan is a high powered PI just like the Whites.
Any depth difference between the TDI and other high powered PI's has to do more with the front end sensitivity of the detector, which is why the other PI's are so unstable in many areas where the TDI works very well.
Like you, I have one of the other "high powered" PI's and the TDI and, personally, I prefer the TDI because of the versatility as well as the stability. This, however, my opinion based upon where I normally use it also. I can't even come close to using the other brand in town or in other areas where there is any electrical interference at all. I can use my TDI or my GS 5 in such areas. For me, that is important.
Reg
Howdy Reg... Gosh, it is great that you are answering my question. I feel that you may be correct..
But Now I'm totally confused. I thought the big batteries (motorcycle size) were high powered and
the small sized batteries low powered. Raw power being necessary to effectively use a
larger coil and make the trip. I also understand smaller batteries need more frequent re-charging
or replacement, and the concept of parallel or series... Now it seens I may have been overlooking the
voltage.
I have used the infinium for years. I consider it small battery and thus low powered. If the lowest Pulse
delay on the Garrett is 15usec, this could explain why it seems to be less sensitive to smaller gold
as another Pulse-type that has (as an example) a 10usec delay.
But Now I'm totally confused. I thought the big batteries (motorcycle size) were high powered and
the small sized batteries low powered. Raw power being necessary to effectively use a
larger coil and make the trip. I also understand smaller batteries need more frequent re-charging
or replacement, and the concept of parallel or series... Now it seens I may have been overlooking the
voltage.
I have used the infinium for years. I consider it small battery and thus low powered. If the lowest Pulse
delay on the Garrett is 15usec, this could explain why it seems to be less sensitive to smaller gold
as another Pulse-type that has (as an example) a 10usec delay.
prospector 55
New member
A high powered PI does not detect targets much deeper than a PI using smaller batteries and the units with out such a large power supply are less suseptable to electronic noise, when you make a larger supply you are effectively amplifing the noise more than the target signal, but if you think luging around a larger battery is going to find more targets you need to look into the law of diminishing returns.
bearkat4160
New member
Hey Parrot,
Well I have guessed also tht the Infinium is around 15 uS. But it could be at 10 uS and just not pumping as much voltage the coil as the TDI. Ive seen people get nugs here in California as small as 0.3 gram at 3-4 inches with the small 8 inch coil. My best advice to get your answer is too call Charles Garrett and ask him, and by all means let us know what it is.
Thanks,
Alan
Well I have guessed also tht the Infinium is around 15 uS. But it could be at 10 uS and just not pumping as much voltage the coil as the TDI. Ive seen people get nugs here in California as small as 0.3 gram at 3-4 inches with the small 8 inch coil. My best advice to get your answer is too call Charles Garrett and ask him, and by all means let us know what it is.
Thanks,
Alan
Howdy... is that you Alan(GA)? Gosh, I sure need your help... My Infinium is an early one.
It was modded to accept the mono's.... In no way will it pick up a .3 gram at 3 inches with
the Garrett 8-inch circular mono. My Infinium will not even pick up a 4.0 gram nugget at
over 7-inches depth in southern California ground with Floyd, an experienced Infinium user.
If you have any suggestions... I'm sure listening!
It was modded to accept the mono's.... In no way will it pick up a .3 gram at 3 inches with
the Garrett 8-inch circular mono. My Infinium will not even pick up a 4.0 gram nugget at
over 7-inches depth in southern California ground with Floyd, an experienced Infinium user.
If you have any suggestions... I'm sure listening!
bearkat4160
New member
Wow, you cant pick up 4 grams at 7 inches? I think my GTI 2500 almost could get it. Thats a pretty good size nug. Only recommendation I could give you is to get the newer version coils. They have fatter cable and are more stable than the older ones with the thinner shielding. Steve Hershbach told Garrett to do that when he tested the first ones sent to him, but they didnt change it, so they have had to play catch up after the bashing Minelabbers gave it.
Yes this is me Alan (GA). I moved to Happy Camp California for the summer and now in Ashland Oregon because I didnt want to go back east. Like it out here.
I Think the TDI is more sensitive than the Infinium from the pics of nugs I have seen already but is still a bit spendy for me. I would like to try one though. As you know sometimes Garrett adds little tweeks to there detectors without even saying so in their advertising, like the mineralize chip they put in there GTI/GTP's. It was word of mouth that got around about it. Maybe thay have tweeked the Infinium since yours came out to make it more sensitive, but I am only guessing. You gonna call Charles and ask him about the pulse delay timing? Maybe they will tell or maybe they actually changed it from yours to the new ones. It might be as easy as rewriting the software that runs it to change the uS of it. Good Luck!
Alan now in OR
Yes this is me Alan (GA). I moved to Happy Camp California for the summer and now in Ashland Oregon because I didnt want to go back east. Like it out here.
I Think the TDI is more sensitive than the Infinium from the pics of nugs I have seen already but is still a bit spendy for me. I would like to try one though. As you know sometimes Garrett adds little tweeks to there detectors without even saying so in their advertising, like the mineralize chip they put in there GTI/GTP's. It was word of mouth that got around about it. Maybe thay have tweeked the Infinium since yours came out to make it more sensitive, but I am only guessing. You gonna call Charles and ask him about the pulse delay timing? Maybe they will tell or maybe they actually changed it from yours to the new ones. It might be as easy as rewriting the software that runs it to change the uS of it. Good Luck!
Alan now in OR
Gosh Alan... I have all of the Garrett made coils for the Infinium (except the 10x14- inch mono)
including the Australian made 10-inch West Coils. Also, it is not critical for me to know the
Pulse delay--- I'm just interested... It seems to be confidentual... Unfortunately I have lost my
earlier contacts with Garrett since both Jack and Mary have retired. I posted the question on
this forum as there are many very knowledgeable members... If I were a Garrett dealer (I'm not a
detector dealer) I would likely know the about the Delays... Mr. Garrett used to give seminars
for his dealers and they would share the information if helpful to their customers. .
Now... I'm certainly not bashing my Infinium! I have managed to find a few larger nuggets
with it over the past 6+ years... Quite likely there has been updates since I bought an early-
production Infinium... One of the first "batch" off the line that was dribbled out to dealers, and
I was lucky to be in line for it.
It was not modded, but Garrett factory sent me word to have it modded so I did and also I
bought one of the first 8- inch monos... However, no way... not even in an air test... will my
modded Infinium hit a five grain (about .3 gram?) eluvial nugget with the 8-inch circular mono...
So, obviously, and this makes sense, either the Infinium or maybe the searchcoil needs
adjusting. Thank You for posting... I appreciate all of the information I can get... This is how
we learn...
including the Australian made 10-inch West Coils. Also, it is not critical for me to know the
Pulse delay--- I'm just interested... It seems to be confidentual... Unfortunately I have lost my
earlier contacts with Garrett since both Jack and Mary have retired. I posted the question on
this forum as there are many very knowledgeable members... If I were a Garrett dealer (I'm not a
detector dealer) I would likely know the about the Delays... Mr. Garrett used to give seminars
for his dealers and they would share the information if helpful to their customers. .
Now... I'm certainly not bashing my Infinium! I have managed to find a few larger nuggets
with it over the past 6+ years... Quite likely there has been updates since I bought an early-
production Infinium... One of the first "batch" off the line that was dribbled out to dealers, and
I was lucky to be in line for it.
It was not modded, but Garrett factory sent me word to have it modded so I did and also I
bought one of the first 8- inch monos... However, no way... not even in an air test... will my
modded Infinium hit a five grain (about .3 gram?) eluvial nugget with the 8-inch circular mono...
So, obviously, and this makes sense, either the Infinium or maybe the searchcoil needs
adjusting. Thank You for posting... I appreciate all of the information I can get... This is how
we learn...
Uncle Willy
New member
Parrot my dear bud you might do well by contacting Garrett and sending that old war horse in for some tweaking. I think they have made a few changes in six years..Have you found anymore hefty nuggets? Take care.
Bill
Bill
In ref to the infinium pulse delay:
I placed a coil beside the 8 inch mono of my infinium and measured the induced waveform on my oscilloscope.
With the disc at zero and threshold at zero The waveform displayed 780 pulses per second and pulse duration of 225 micro seconds and a pulse delay of approx 1100 micro seconds.
With the threshold at freq adjust and disc at iron check position, the waveform displayed 750 pulses per second and pulse duration of 225 micro seconds and a pulse delay of 1100 micro seconds.
With threshold at zero and disc control ranged from zero to max I could not see any change in the pulse delay..
So from this it can be seen that the pulses per second decrease by approx 30 as the disc control is rotated towards max when in the freq adjust mode.
As for the large pulse delay, well go figure , I guess Mr Garrett has another trick up his sleeve as far as achieving discrimination is concerned and my CRO is not capable of displaying how it is done
Cheers..
I placed a coil beside the 8 inch mono of my infinium and measured the induced waveform on my oscilloscope.
With the disc at zero and threshold at zero The waveform displayed 780 pulses per second and pulse duration of 225 micro seconds and a pulse delay of approx 1100 micro seconds.
With the threshold at freq adjust and disc at iron check position, the waveform displayed 750 pulses per second and pulse duration of 225 micro seconds and a pulse delay of 1100 micro seconds.
With threshold at zero and disc control ranged from zero to max I could not see any change in the pulse delay..
So from this it can be seen that the pulses per second decrease by approx 30 as the disc control is rotated towards max when in the freq adjust mode.
As for the large pulse delay, well go figure , I guess Mr Garrett has another trick up his sleeve as far as achieving discrimination is concerned and my CRO is not capable of displaying how it is done
Cheers..
Eric Foster
New member
You cannot see the pulse delay on a pickup coil placed near the search loop. The pulse delay is the time from when the transmitter pulse goes off, and the start of the receiver sampling period. 1100uS is way too long and you would not detect anything if that were the case. What I suspect you are measuring is the time between the end of one transmitter pulse and the beginning of the next one. If you add 225uS to 1100uS, you get 1325uS. Divide one million by 1325 and you come up with 754 pulses per second. All you are seeing is the induced voltage from the succession of TX pulses. The pulse delay and the sampling pulses are all related to the receiver circuit and can only be viewed on the appropriate points on the circuit board.
Eric.
Eric.
Parrott,
The smallest piece of gold that I found with my Infinium so far is a .15 gram flat flake at 2 inches with my 10 x 14 DD coil. It was about 1/2 inch under the dirt laying in a recess on bed rock. My coil was about 1 1/2" above the ground. There was no high low or low high tone, just a tiny weak high beep every time I passed the coil over that spot. I was sweeping VERY slow. I think a lot of people tend to sweep way to fast with the Infinium. It has a lot lower pulse rate (730 pps) than the TDI or the Minelab machines. You have to sweep slow to bombard tiny targets with enough pulses to generate high enough eddie currents in the tiny target for the receiver circuit to hear it when it is gated on. I have found a nunber of tiny flakes or nuggets around the 1/4 gram size but the .15 gram one is the smallest that I have found. It was fairly flat and that always helps. I have used the 5 x 10 DD before in really brushy areas with good results but I favor the stock 10 x 14 DD coil. I don't profess to be a expert Infinium user but I have spent a lot of time learning how to hear tiny targets with it. I think It will find a lot smaller pieces of gold than a lot of people give it credit for. The biggest disadvantage with the Infinium is that to find the tiny stuff I have to slow my sweep down so much that it takes forever to cover very much ground.
That is my input on the subject of finding tiny gold flakes or nuggets with my Infinium LS. I personally have not heard of the TDI finding anything much less than 1/4 of a gram yet, but I am sure someone will one of these days.
God Bless and HH
Smitty II
The smallest piece of gold that I found with my Infinium so far is a .15 gram flat flake at 2 inches with my 10 x 14 DD coil. It was about 1/2 inch under the dirt laying in a recess on bed rock. My coil was about 1 1/2" above the ground. There was no high low or low high tone, just a tiny weak high beep every time I passed the coil over that spot. I was sweeping VERY slow. I think a lot of people tend to sweep way to fast with the Infinium. It has a lot lower pulse rate (730 pps) than the TDI or the Minelab machines. You have to sweep slow to bombard tiny targets with enough pulses to generate high enough eddie currents in the tiny target for the receiver circuit to hear it when it is gated on. I have found a nunber of tiny flakes or nuggets around the 1/4 gram size but the .15 gram one is the smallest that I have found. It was fairly flat and that always helps. I have used the 5 x 10 DD before in really brushy areas with good results but I favor the stock 10 x 14 DD coil. I don't profess to be a expert Infinium user but I have spent a lot of time learning how to hear tiny targets with it. I think It will find a lot smaller pieces of gold than a lot of people give it credit for. The biggest disadvantage with the Infinium is that to find the tiny stuff I have to slow my sweep down so much that it takes forever to cover very much ground.
That is my input on the subject of finding tiny gold flakes or nuggets with my Infinium LS. I personally have not heard of the TDI finding anything much less than 1/4 of a gram yet, but I am sure someone will one of these days.
God Bless and HH
Smitty II
bearkat4160
New member
n/t