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racer in modern trash with very little iron.
- Thread starter below2doe
- Start date
choppadude
Active member
I think the Racer sucks in a trashy environment. Many targets will ring in as "82" on the scale and gives a good full tone making one think they have a good target. It is great in iron but foil and small bits of can slaw will fool you almost every time.
My conclusion so far is that there are two main situations:
1. High tones: If you are coinshooting for U.S. quarters, dimes, and copper pennies (TID 84-90),
especially if you use the small coil, you can pick out good signals among the trash.
But sometimes the trash will fool you. No detector (that I know of) is perfect at
avoiding all of it. But with the Racer, you can train your ears to hear the good smooth
pure sound of a good target, and those will almost always really be good. Almost.
2. Mid tones: If you get repeatable TID signals in the range of 54-56 (nickels) and the broader range of,
say, 52-78, you can reduce the number of trash targets you dig by listening for smooth, pure
sounds and repeatable TID numbers, BUT you'll still dig a lot of trash. Some pulltabs just sound
great, like they are nickels or gold rings. Maybe other people will tell you they can hear the difference,
but I sure haven't reached that point yet.
Just one man's opinion.
1. High tones: If you are coinshooting for U.S. quarters, dimes, and copper pennies (TID 84-90),
especially if you use the small coil, you can pick out good signals among the trash.
But sometimes the trash will fool you. No detector (that I know of) is perfect at
avoiding all of it. But with the Racer, you can train your ears to hear the good smooth
pure sound of a good target, and those will almost always really be good. Almost.
2. Mid tones: If you get repeatable TID signals in the range of 54-56 (nickels) and the broader range of,
say, 52-78, you can reduce the number of trash targets you dig by listening for smooth, pure
sounds and repeatable TID numbers, BUT you'll still dig a lot of trash. Some pulltabs just sound
great, like they are nickels or gold rings. Maybe other people will tell you they can hear the difference,
but I sure haven't reached that point yet.
Just one man's opinion.
IMO the ID is not that great on the Racer. The 82 number is a "catch all" area for a lot of different targets and a good many US coins too. I went through a big pile of dug coins, consisting of indian head cents, wheat cents, etc and most all of them were 80-83 numbers in air testing and a large chunk of them were 82s. If you are in 3 tone mode, those 82s are gonna ring up with a high tone and your best interest is to dig them. My conclusion is the same as "choppadude". The Racer excels at iron laden sites and pulling non ferrous items from iron. One of its weak points is in modern trash. It's not that the recovery speed isn't fast enough to alert you to being multiple targets in the ground under the coil. It's that the ID is not accurate enough to be an old coin cherry picker like an FBS machine in modern trash. For clad less than 5 inches deep...it does fairly well. If you are chasing deep silver or indian head cents, be prepared to dig a lot of trash that hits in those upper 70 and low 80 tones and numbers.
I have to agree with TallTom above. I find the Racer to be the best detector I've used in pulling modern coins out of modern trash. The smooth round sound is the key. Yes half dimes and some indians can also read 82 but they will also be the smooth round sounds. If you're looking for clad in the trash, just ignore the 82's and just dig the 83's and above with that clean sound. The trash gives you a fuzzy sound before and after the beep.
Low-Boy/LCPM
Active member
I would use a smaller coil on the racer it works for me
Davethejunky
TROLL #2
Like any detector, and I mean ANY detector you are gonna dig trash I don't care how well you know your machine. I love digging high tone trash because that tells me the last few there were using high disc. If I find lets say a solid piece of brass the size if a quarter I grid about 50 square feet around the area and always come up with something good. Signals like that shouldn't be left behind. Trash can be your friend if you know how to use it to your advantage.
Once you get the audio down, really learn it. If you are a coin hunter like myself, the trash sounds very different from from a good metal target sound. I dig very little trash compared to any machine I've ever had with the Racer and CoRe. If you're digging trash you haven't got the audio down yet. I've forgotten what balled up foil looks like..............really. Learn the nuances of the audio, not just beep and dig.
Davethejunky
TROLL #2
When I finally learned what steel crown caps sound like I don't dig them anymore. I dig 1 out of 10 of those signals just to test myself.
In my opinion the Racer works quite well. If you are in a modern trash site, and it has a lot of aluminum, I am sure it has ample foil, brass, iron, and other metal target challenges. Before I had Discriminating detectors, the old basic TR's generally ignored iron nails, and responded to all non-ferrous targets. I dug them, took a look and decided what was good and what was junk. I got rid of the junk, and hunted the site more, with better success, because I had removed masking targets, to include both ferrous and non-ferrous items.below2doe said:
Then along came TR-Discrimination, but all I used it for was to reject iron nails. Increasing it meant I was impairing detecting depth, and also missing small, low-conductive gold jewelry.. Fast forward to motion-based [size=small](Ground Cancelling)[/size] Discrimination and I couldn't see any reason to reject anything more than iron nails because I don't like to miss good targets.
I don't reject low, medium or high positive conductors because knocking out foil eliminates gold chains and thin, small gold items. Higher Discrimination to reject older ring-pull and modern rectangular pry type tabs would also reject US nickels and most typical gold jewelry [size=small](like up to 85%-95% of it)[/size]. I also do not reject screw caps or modern Zinc cents because that rejects most silver Half-Dimes, Flying Eagle and most Indian Head cents, a lot of early Wheat-Ear cents from 1909 to about 1920, and the bigger, higher-conductive gold coins. Many more desired targets are also knocked out with such a high setting, and it also increases good-target masking in dense trash.
No. Not really, and times are getting tougher for the Traditional Urban Coin Hunter, too. I have in my pocket, available for quick detector testing and a little humor at times, a modern rectangular pry-tab. I am not sure which beverage container it came off of and was tossed aside in a playground, but in July my oldest son found it when we were on a trip to Utah. it's aluminum, and it reads spot-on '82' on the Racer.below2doe said:
And don't think it is a Racer-only issue with the '82' read-out discussions, either. On an outing last month and in two group presentations I have done, it has been checked by many Target ID detectors, such as a Fisher F19, Teknetics Omega 8000 and T2, Garrett AT Pro and AT Gold, White's IDX Pro, XLT, M6, MX5 and MXT Pro, and two more "sophisticated" models, the XP Deus, and Minelab's FBS E-Trac and CTX-3030.Every operator and every model and coil tested called it a 'lock-on' Zinc Cent. That means it was a 'dig-me' target.
If you're looking for targets that are not iron, then you have to recover all targets that are not iron-reading targets. Yes, you can try to isolate some coin-like signals that give more of a 'lock-on' TID, but you'll also be missing a lot of good targets by doing so, regardless of the detector in-hand.
If you want it, you dig it. Then you take a look, get rid of what is junk, resweep the spot to make sure you didn't remove a masking target, then get on to the next object.below2doe said:
Monte
Thanks Guys for a good all round valuation of the Racer. I am in Australia so the big difference is I mainly cherry pick our $! & $2 coins which I believe land on 82. Also screw caps I believe in the states land on 82. Now I would think that aluminium screw caps will land on 82 one guy here in Oz says 84 but I do not know as I have not used the Racer as yet. I have the Whites v3i and have used it since its release and have had it back to the states to the v3i update. The v3i has been very good to me in that time BUT I need a detector that is lighter to swing such as the Racer or the Deus. The v3i is very good in discrimination but it all comes down to Horses for Courses. One last thing if you get an aluminium screw cap round and screwed up is their any difference in the tonel value.
Regards Below2doe.
Regards Below2doe.
Forgive my sounding like I know more than I do but its just how I am. I am fond of saying I make my living stating the obvious.
I think most of the problems people are claiming with numeric IDing is based on a perception that it is black and white rather than gray scale. It is only a help for audio. One of the nicest wedding rings I ever dug was a simply awful signal sound and VID using my Minelab Explorer SE Pro. Digging only clear readings brings better ratios based on eliminating iffy targets. Less trash digging can mean walking over great targets that for whatever reason don't have an ideal situation. Its always a sliding scale decision where experience drives choices.
I think most of the problems people are claiming with numeric IDing is based on a perception that it is black and white rather than gray scale. It is only a help for audio. One of the nicest wedding rings I ever dug was a simply awful signal sound and VID using my Minelab Explorer SE Pro. Digging only clear readings brings better ratios based on eliminating iffy targets. Less trash digging can mean walking over great targets that for whatever reason don't have an ideal situation. Its always a sliding scale decision where experience drives choices.
Southwind
Well-known member
The key to any detector in modern trash is based on the number of target ID segments. The more segments the more a user is able to determine trash from coin. Of course this also involves experience in knowing what numbers to dig and what not to dig.
Yes there is always the exception. I'm talking increased odds not a 100% accuracy which doesn't exist. The more target segments the high the odds are in your favor. You either are a "dig-it-all" or you play the odds. If you're a dig it all it doesn't matter what you use. Another obvious is that a smaller coil will generally give you better results in high trashy areas. DUH!
Yes there is always the exception. I'm talking increased odds not a 100% accuracy which doesn't exist. The more target segments the high the odds are in your favor. You either are a "dig-it-all" or you play the odds. If you're a dig it all it doesn't matter what you use. Another obvious is that a smaller coil will generally give you better results in high trashy areas. DUH!