basstrackerman said:
I may be leaning toward a G2+ now.. Love the video but all of that iron was giving some high tones and the shoe toe piece sounded like iron or mixed with iron but yet no iron around it..i didnt like that.. Maybe im wrong at what i seen?
kt said:
I'm with you, that iron seemed like it was giving some high tones and that stinks. How would the Racer act in a total iron pit? I hope someone makes a video of it in a site saturated with iron.
You have to keep several things in mind when evaluating the videos, suchl as the settings used, then factor in the coil used and size/shape of the ferrous targets. I work every detector I evaluate over some old sites that provide a variety of iron-based targets. I also have the samples in my seminar tote to help do some "show-and-tell" when attendees ask about the "noisy operation" they have and how to deal with it. The main problem is they want perfect performance from conditions that can't provide it.
Are both of you familiar with using Double-D search coil designs, ... often?
Do you run your Discrimination [size=small](ID Masking on the CoRe and ID Filter on the Racer)[/size] low to accept a lot of iron?
I have an old Railroad Date Nail from the 1920's. It's about 3" long, but thick-bodied, and the nail head, with the date on it, is also thick. One iron nail, but you can have more than one Target ID and Audio Tone response from one piece of iron based upon its position to the search coil. If it is positioned so the point of the nail is towards the search coil, you get a consistent Target ID of '26' and the anticipated or proper Low Tone response. However, if you sweep directly over the round head of the nail, as if it had been driven straight into the ground, you get a slightly broken audio response, although a lot of it is the higher VCO Tone, and the Target ID is '41' and sometimes ± that a little.
Lay that same iron target on the ground pointed at you and away and sweep across its width and you'll mostly get the anticipated low-tone for iron. Turn 90° and sweep across it lengthwise and you'll get a mostly Low Iron Tone but likely have a Higher VCO Tone sneak in there as well. Why? Because the head of the nail is now "on edge" and it has a different effect on the EMF.
The design engineers can't defeat some challenges man creates, and tinkering with adjustments won't help, either. It's not just an Iron target we encounter, but often a challenging shaped iron target that creates problems for us. Most typical iron we find will be something like an iron nail, and hopefully not of an odd shape.
Basstrackerman, I had two F19's I traded for or bought to evaluate and they worked ... but not to my satisfaction and I parted with them. Poor depth and terrible on higher-conductive targets.
btm and kt, ANY detector in a real iron pit will have problems. We have to use the best tools for the sites we hunt, such as a smaller-size search coil and a quick-responding detector that can also handle iron trash rejection well. Not just be a quick-response model, but deal with the Disc. processing and recovery, too. This month I am completing my 50th year of metal detecting, and start #51 the first week of March. I encountered iron trash, mainly nails and bottle caps, early on, and since May 4th of 1969 I have shifted my concentrated efforts to ghost towns and other out-of-the-way older places where ample iron abounds.
Fortunately we have some very good detectors over the past twenty to thirty years to help hunt such sites, but at times I have been in "an iron pit" and that calls for favorite tool #1 ... a rake. Remove some of the masking and annoying trash metal and improve the odds for my success. Depending upon the make and model detector and coil attached, you will have poor, fair, or very good performance in a dense iron nail infested site. I have four detectors in my personal arsenal that do well on such a challenge, and of those four, the absolute best performance comes from the FORS CoRe and Racer.
I find Keith's videos interesting, to see the types of sites he hunts, and informative. Like he stated in his response, you have to self-interpret some of the subtle audio that doesn't always come across in the recorded sounds. Plus we are using Double-D coils on these models and, as a rule, DD's do not discriminate as cleanly as a Concentric coil, and they will also be non-uniform in their response between a right-to-left approach and then a left-to-right sweep.
Back to the problem, however, and that is iron. We are dealing with Iron, and ferrous metal has a different effect on the EMF than non-ferrous metals. The big problem is the shape of the metal and what man does to make it tough. If you think all iron should sound like iron all the time, here's a simple test you can do that I demonstrate in my seminars, or encourage people to do to learn more about their detectors and detecting.
1.. Find a shiny paper clip that isn't plastic, but iron-based. Make sure it is attracted to a magnet.
2.. Open it up to form a mostly straight 'wire' of metal.
3.. Use YOUR detector and YOUR search coil and adjust the Discrimination low so you will hear Iron. Sweep across it lengthwise and crosswise. Note the Target ID numeric response and write it down. On my Racer it was mostly '19' with an occasional flicker to '20.' Also note the audio Tone [size=small](Iron or Non-Iron)[/size].
4.. Now, bend the straight paperclip wire into a U shape, lay it on the metal-free ground and sweep over it again. Write down what Target ID numeric reading you get and the Tone [size=small](Iron or Non-Iron)[/size].
5.. Now, using the same bare spot of metal-free ground, and using the same, stick-to-a-magnet iron wire, bend the two ends into tiny hooks and bend it from a U into an O shape hooking the two ends together. Lay it on the bare ground and sweep across this same piece of ferrous metal ... that man has shaped (YOU) into a slightly different configuration. Sweep over it with your same detector and coil and settings, and jot down the Target ID numeric read-out and audio Tone response.
If you think back to what you stated:
"
Love the video but all of that iron was giving some high tones and the shoe toe piece sounded like iron or mixed with iron but yet no iron around it..i didnt like that"
... and ...
"
I'm with you, that iron seemed like it was giving some high tones and that stinks."
Then maybe you need to rethink your views and opinions on Keith's videos and/or your quick thought of how the Makro Racer is performing. As you will learn, a lot of the iron we encounter is not 'perfect' and we just have to do our best to use our learned skills of target deciphering and interpretation ... or dig everything that isn't a rock-solid iron Tone ID and visual read-out.
I was out detecting a while yesterday, got home and took a nap, then I have been up all night working with both detectors, and others, doing target sampling and comparison, measure detection depth, and responding to e-mails and forum posts. Now it's 5:59 AM and I need to go shower and change clothes because The Pheasant Grill opens at 6AM and I need an Ultimate Omelet to start my day before heading off with the Coin & Relic and Racer, very confident that I am traveling with the two best detectors I could have for any site I encounter with an assortment of search coils that are up-to-the-task.
Go find a paperclip, get you detectors and coils, do a very simple 'man-challenging' test, then post your results and comments. Nothing is 'perfect' and there is no such thing as a 'perfect' detector. Both of these have a glitch or two that I have passed along, but they still remain .... EXCELLENT, and the absolute simplest to set-up and use with the best ability to hunt in iron littered sites.
Monte
I want one, but think I am looking for a reason not to get one 