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Racer...some silver and first impressions

KyJoe

New member
Finally got in a couple of short hunts at some of my old sites. Finding anything would be impressive to me. The pic shows a 20's era school house and a very small area out the side door. I've hunted this spot for over 15 years and atleast 10 machines. There was some trash near it but was getting a strong 82-84 and a good tone. Only 6" deep. This ends a 5 year silver drought at this site. Wish I had my Deus along to check the target. I was hunting in 2 tone mostly. In my test garden (8 yrs old) 2 tone is considerably deeper than 3.

The Racer seems well balanced even with the "S" handle. After a couple of hours I was getting good at ID'ing junk targets and deep rusty nails weren't a problem. This thing is just deep and easy to use right out of the box.

My Racer seems a little more effected by EMI than I would like but the frequency adjust helped a lot. One odd thing, sometimes a gain of 70 or above would overload the detector but backing down to 69 or less was ok. I read somewhere it might be a bad coil. I'm not sure if it's normal, My Racer is sensitive to EMI. I bet we'll hear more about this from other Racer users.

So far it is holding up to my expectations. Can't wait to try out the small coil.
 
Joe,
I can run my Unit at 99 gain in both DI3 and DI2 no overload in the air. Now you put the coil on the ground and get over a shallow say cap, then it will overload. Granted I don't think it's smart to hunt in DI2 gain99, too much noise-but shouldn't be overloading. Something else. You if you can run your unit. You are going to find DI2 and DI3 when the gain is set say both to 95, depth differences not near as much as say DI2 and DI3 at gain 70. DI3 mode was reworked after field testing. As you increase the gain you'll notice a nonlinear depth gain, when you reach around gain setting 95 both DI2 and DI3 are similar-DI2 still slightly deeper. . Also worth noting. Small coil depth between DI2 and DI3 is very close. Stock coil depth differences a little wider margin.
Someone did some airtest and this is the link:

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?102,2163331
 
Mine overloads in the air when you first turn it on with the preset at 70. Backing down to 69 returns to normal. after GB'ing sometimes I can raise the gain and sometimes I can't. I remember reading about the Di3 rework.
 
Sir, I think you have a bad coil!!!!! This exact thing has been stated by a couple folks. New coils remedied.. Better tend to it.
 
I have the same exact thing happening with mine. I should have a new coil here on Tuesday and will see if this fixes the problem. I know of someone else who has the issue too. Hope Makro gets this figured out.
 
I am having the same issue. I had a Nokta Fors Core that I tested in the same place where the Racer overloaded with no issues. I noticed it would happed at random times and places with the Racer but I used it for an hour and a half yesterday at a new site with no issues. It may be that the Racer is a bit hotter but they tested basicly the same in my garden. It also may be that the Racer is 14kHz and the Core is 15kHz. Also could be a bad coil. Bill is getting his replacement today and im curious to see if that fixes the issue. Here is the response I received back from Makro. I haven't tested it today to see if this helps.



"Thank you for choosing one of our products.



Two-tone mode is deepest mode for Racer.

Sometimes you could get overload signals when you use it with high gain in a high mineral soil or there is an environmental magnetic field around.

Actually you can get this overload (saturation) signal from other detectors!



If you reduce the gain to 69, the coil will not cause the machine to go into the overload as before.

If you would like to eliminate all overload signals completely, you should use the gain 39. But you are going to lose 15% depth.



If you reduce the gain up to 39 and still getting the overload (saturation) signals, probably the coil could be defective.

Please lift the coil up, switch the device on and try to make a ground balance again.

If you get the saturation alarm continually we have to send a new search coil for the replacement.



It doesn’t mean that you will never use higher than gain 70 in two-tone mode. If there is a high mineral soil of your searching area it could happen.



You should reduce the sensitivity. We forgot to add this note to the user manual. But we will add it soon.



If you have any further question please do not hesitate to contact me.



Best Regards
 
Thanks for the info Tim. UPS has delayed my new coil delivery until tomorrow. I am not sure whoever replied to you understands what is going on. Sounds like he is talking about overload signals from shallow targets not a continuous overload even when the detector is in the air not near any targets. Having to run the racer at reduced sens is not the answer. They need to figure out what is causing it and fix it.
 
I just tested mine, even on a sensitivity setting of 1 it will overload on a shallow coin. Another guy just posted a video on youtube showing what his is doing. I can't post a link because it has ads in it. Title of the video is Makro Racer Faulty?
 
All I can say is both my CoRe unit and Racer unit with stock coils attached. Over 4 bar F75LTD2 indicated ground in both DI2 and DI3 99 gain, no overload in the air or coil on the ground. Even with ID mask/filter at 0 setting with 99 on the gain.
 
My first Racer silver was a 1909 Barber dime, and all I have found since have been '51 and '59 Roosevelt dimes. I need to get into more older sites, and I hope to find some in April. I know I will be in some old-coin [size=small](and trade token and artifact and etc., etc.)[/size] potential ghost towns and such in mid-May when we have a casual, informal, "Welcome to Hunt" outing based out of a town on the Utah/Nevada border. I have my hopes up for more Barbers and Seated Liberties, if good fortune comes my way and I put my Racer coils over the targets.

Now, to the topic of "overload" and what it is.

To some people, the term "overload" means a condition where there is too much EMI present and the detector is unstable. So far, my FORS and Racers have been quite stable, unless I am very close to some high-power sources like a sub-station or overhead transformers, etc. That said, I haven't been in any environment that causes me to walk away because I could easily deal with it with a very modest reduction in Gain/Sensitivity.

Then we have the "overload" audio or "saturated" audio response that can occur. Again, I don't have a problem with any "in-the-air" "saturated audio" response with my initial Racer, using all four search coils at any Gain setting, or with a brand new Racer my friend got on Friday and assembled on Saturday. He has a heavy, busy work load out-of-town [size=small](actually out-of-state)[/size] from last week through at least through the month of April and has his White's M6 and Nokta FORS CoRe with him, so I am using the brand new Racer and coils he got along with my Racer and coils to do some more testing [size=small](and hunting, of course)[/size].

After reading this thread's post and comments, I went out and used 2 Racers, early version and new production run, 2-small DD coils, 2-5½X10 DD coils, 2-7X11 DD coils and 1-large 13X15 DD coil.

I used both 2-Tone and 3-Tone modes.

ID Filter was left at '10' and Gain was checked at the default setting of '70', then increased to '85' where I usually hunt, then up to '95' and '99.' I then reduced the Gain to '65' and then to '50.'

I checked everything over some nasty black asphalt in our parking lot and, depending upon the search coil used, the Ground Balanced Ground Phase was between '79.[size=small]40[/size]' and '81.[size=small]60[/size]' with a Magnetic Mineral read-out on the 'pie graph' of '7' filled in pieces.

Waving the detector around in the air, with a Pacific Power substation for our entire town just a half-block away, I couldn't get any "overload" or "saturated audio" response at all. Calm and quiet.

Could I get a "saturated audio" response? Yes, and here's when:

If the Gain was reasonably high, AND if I briskly bobbed the search coils [size=small](any of them)[/size] from almost touching the asphalt up to about 1" to 2", I could often get a 1-time space-gun sounding audio. It was not continuous, just one short little saturated audio response, very brief. Kind of part of the overload/saturated audio, not a repeating sound.

Why did it happen? Really nasty bad ground with a high Ground Phase and an intense Magnetic Mineralization Indication read-out. ... See Page 21, and then remember that 'Saturation' occurs when a target is too close to the search coil or if the target is too large. A lot of intense mineralized ground, in this case the high-responding black asphalt, was large enough and close enough to the coil to saturate the EMF. That saturation of the EMF, or you could call it warping the field or overloading the field, is what caused the very brief, partial, 'saturated' audio.

Placing a couple of coins on the asphalt and sweeping over them in a 'normal' fashion and keeping the search coil level with the ground throughout the sweep produced typical, average good target hits w/o overload .. as long as I maintained a proper coil-to-target distance.

To double check I took all the coils and detectors over to the grassy lawn. Did an automated Ground Balance in a couple of spots and the Ground Phase ranged from '75' to '79' and the Magnetic Mineralization Indicator only had '3' to '5' of the 'pie segments' lit. I could do the same brisk bobbing of the coils, or place them right on the ground and abruptly lift them away [size=small](as I did on the asphalt parking lot)[/size] and never got an 'overload" audio, even at the highest Gain settings.

So, I can only say that using one Racer for almost two months now, and comparing it with a fresh production Racer, it seems that some of the issues a few people might have with it are that they did run too much gain, and I wouldn't doubt that a few might forget to check the Ground Balance, and no doubt some [size=small](a few perhaps)[/size] could use an improper sweep technique with more of a pendulum arc to it, and that can cause a false response when quickly brought close-to and then away-from the ground, especially if it is a very mineralized chuck of dirt.

Is there a detector problem? I don't think so.

Is there a coil issue? We'll, that is possible, but I am not seeing it with the 7 Racer coils I have and am evaluating, on 2 Racers, so I don't think it's a real issue.

On the bright side, the Nokta and Makro Detector folks are, like they have been, on top of any issues that seem to be showing up and are replacing some coils. I just hope people with a Racer will double check their surrounding areas and coil presentation close to the ground to make sure that's not the cause.

One more reminder. Most manufacturers have a 'preset' marker on their detectors or give us an indication of a starting point for a Gain/Sensitivity setting and let us know that we can increase the gain in some circumstances and with some caution that a setting that is too high can cause people problems, like more EMI, and EMI is, essentially an "overloading" or "saturation" of our EMF. Remember to read about Gain on, I believe, Page 7 of the Owner's Manual as well as Page 16.

Also read the comments by Southwind as he is comparing his Racer to his E-Trac and Deus, and is only using the Racer at the 'default' [size=small](aka preset suggestion)[/size] Gain of '70.' I usually have the Racer's set at '85' gain in 2-Tone and 3-Tone mode, and most of the places I have hunted so far in Oregon, Idaho, Washington and Utah have not been mellow ground. Most have had Ground Phase readings of at least '76' and up to '86' and the MMI has been as low a '3' segments lit up, but up to '7' segments as well.

Okay, off to go hunting and I'll check in this evening.

Monte
 
....
 
1.. Which search coil was used?

2.. Which search mode?

3.. What Gain setting?

4.. How close was the search coil to the nail?

5.. How big was the nail to the coil?

Again, could there be a problem with the stock 7X11 coils? Possibly, but I really like the Saturation function design of the Makro Racer, and I use it to my benefit. The Racer is a highipower, high-performance sensitive detector and we need to remember, as I mentioned in a post reply the other day, refer to Page 6, Number 10 where operators are instructed to sweep the search coil about 2" off the ground [size=small](off the dirt, not grass tops)[/size].

One thing for certain, should there be a search coil issue and not an operator glitch, I'm sure Makro Detectors will care for their customers quickly.

Me? No problems, and I am well aware of the Racer's strengths and operating power, and few in number yet versatile in function controls and audio features.

My FORS CoRe, Racers and I [size=small](and Miss Rikki my wonderful dog)[/size] are headed out the door in a few minutes for some chilly 42°, 4 to 8 mph wind hunting. Hopefully the sun will get me as warm and excited as these detectors do. Great performance and so far nary a problem of any kind. :thumbup:

Monte
 
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