Short F75 upgrade report

[WV62]

Yesterday was my first opportunity to hunt with the upgraded F75Ltd. First of all the machine ran quite and responded well to coin targets. I hunted most of the day in FA and the 5”DD coil and later in the day out of desperation I put the 11”DD coil on trying to catch up with my brothers on the silver count. Well it never happened, brother Greg got a nice silver quarter, and then to ice the cake brother Mark (MarkCZ) got his first ever silver half $.
.
My machine with the 5” coil was having a little trouble reaching the coins; I was getting pretty faint signals even on 3” deep coins. I kind of expected that with not being able to scrub the ground with the coil, the area is wooded so you have another couple of air inches hold over.

I was getting excellent separation between the coins and the trash. In fact the area we are hunting never gives up a lot of coins, I checked my log book and my coin count ranges from 0 to 9 coins a day. Yesterday even with no silver I got 14 coins, the best coin count for this year in that area. I am pretty sure Greg's coin count was one, and Mark's was about 3 I think.

I ran the BP processor for about an hour and it seemed about the same as before the upgrade.

So far so good, no issues with the upgrade.

Ron in WV

 

[Beyonder]

fast audio is a great process to use for seperation but from what ive seen, it does not go very deep.

 

[foreign object]

A silver quarter and half from the same place plus 17 coins I a good day in my book.

I put a Nel Sharpshooter on my new F75 and have not got to use it other in the test garden and it is showing real promise depth wise. Running disc.at 6 and 95 sens. And 9.0 It does a very good job on the 8" dime and excellent on the 6" on edge dime. If I switch to 9.1 the 8" dime really breaks up but the machine runs really quite in both modes. I really can't tell any difference in stability at this point.

I have not even tried FA yet so I can't say about depth. I Need to try that I guess.

As info.

FO

 

[MarkCZ]

Well it never happened, brother Greg got a nice silver quarter, and then to ice the cake brother Mark (MarkCZ) got his first ever silver half $.

Wait minute! now that is my first piece of silver from that area, but the half isn't my first silver half!
MANY years ago I found a Ben Franklin half night hunting curbs.
I also found a Liberty Walking half in a small front yard of an apartment that was about to be torn down.
I found both of these in the mid 80's.

So this is my third silver half to have ever found, I've only found one clad half in all the years I've been hunting.

Yep, I found the one half dollar and only two wheat cents.
That place is an odd place to hunt for sure, if Greg told me right there has been four half dollars and five quarters come out of that area, add in the silver dimes and the silver comes close to the penny count.

Mark

 

[WV62]

Sorry little brother, I was thinking that was your first ever half. Anyway that was a nice find.

I did add a little suspense to the hunt, I found a small gold colored case and I told them that I found a treasure box and I would open it when we got back to the car. My last hope to find something good for the day. Well we pried it open and it was empty.

Brother Ron

 

[foreign object]

Ya know I have found 3 compacts this last year and ever time I open one I get slightly disappointed. The good thing is they have all been found in 1930s/40s turn of the century sites so they are older and thus I am always happy to find them.

 

[MarkCZ]

A silver quarter and half from the same place plus 17 coins I call a good day in my book.
FO

Well, if that had been one person it would be one thing! but that's three people hunting from 10:30am until about 5:00pm. What we can't figure is how so many half dollars got lost in this place as compared to the other coins? I mean finding as many half's as we find quarters is out of sync for some reason. In our area the ratio between other coins and half's is like thousands to one, so I'm still scratching my head as to come up with a clue to the out of balance ratio, which we will probably never figure it out.
For the area and as many Wheat's as Ron found he was for sure about to hit at lest a silver dime! the ratio for silver dimes verses Wheat pennies is out of balance as well. All in all if you took the total number of coins found in this area I'm going to say that the silver is only maybe 10 or 15 behind, if that, the place just hasn't given up very many coins in all.

But, another silver half and the silver quarter will for sure drag us back in there.

Mark

 

[togg77]

Boy those Walkers are beautiful.

 

[MarkCZ]

Boy those Walkers are beautiful.

I've always thought them to be one of the best designed coins ever minted, but they sure are a rare find metal detecting. I'm thinking that with the number of half dollars that are turning up from this area that there just may be a silver dollar laying around somewhere, now that is a coin I've never found yet! I believe Ron found one YEARS ago.

Mark

 

[MarkCZ]

Okay, big brother (or anybody else) what do you think about this problem.
While we were metal detecting the other day our brother Greg calls me over to check a target he was about to dig, he was using his F5 and the 11" DD coil, I had my Omega and a 5" DD coil. He says his was showing a good reading. So, I check it with my Omega and I don't get anything other than maybe a click or a pop (nothing I would dig). Ron, is there by now and he checks it and gets a reading but not a really good one, but states that the marked pinpoint location is off.
Greg digs the target and the pinpoint was indeed off, the target ended up be a silver quarter that wasn't very deep but it was tilted (angled).

Well, at the time I couldn't figured any reason that the Omega and the 5" DD coil wouldn't hit that quarter, I was running pretty hot settings. After that I just went back to the car and switched out coils to the 11" DD coil and went on hunting, it was after the coil swap that I found the silver half dollar.
When I got home I wanted to test my 5" coil thinking something may have gone wrong with it. Well it tested GREAT, good depth, good response I couldn't find any reason for my setup to not have responded to the silver quarter earlier that day.

So, I set back and started thinking about the whole scenario then I remembered that Greg's quarter wasn't laying flat, it was tilted and that was why the pinpoint was off, so I got the idea to sweep a quarter in front of the 5" DD coil holding it tilted (angled) and then things got interesting. I lost a BUNCH of depth So, I swap coils for the 11" and found that it to lost some depth but not as much. So, after a couple more days of thinking about this I came up with this possibility.

The pinpoint is off on angled or tilted coins, right?
So, I'm thinking that the signal off a tilted coil is deflected and angled, if the angle is enough wouldn't it make sense that at the same depth the deflected signal could be missed by the reduced coverage of the smaller coil, while at the same time a larger coil with more coverage might still intercept the deflected signal??

See picture below!
Now, if this theory is correct then its just another reason for hunted out places to still produce good finds by changing almost anything, it also means that every negative has a positive, some bad with the good. What's everybody's take on this?

After the quarter fail me and Ron both went back for a coil change.

Maybe this could be more of a problem with DD's vs Concentric's?

Mark

 

[WV62]

I agree with that, but I did get a reading off that quarter and I was running the 5" at the time. I was running the new FA mode on the F75 and noticed that all my coin signals were weak. That is the reason I suggested changing coils.

Now to add to the mix, a week or so ago when brother Greg found his half dollar, before digging he called me over to see what the the F75 would say about his target. I can't remember which coil I had on but most likely it was the 6.5" coil. Anyway I didn't get a good signal like that it is for sure a half, that quarter we were talking about was a better signal than the half. The half was tilted and was within the first 3" of ground. Greg's F5 was locked on both these coins.

Also just a few days before Greg's half $ I found a half $ and I was locked on, Greg brought the F5 over and bam he was locked on.

Kind of seems that it boils down that brother Greg and his F5 is putting a hurting on us.

Brother Ron in WV

 

[pasttom]

Seems like a perfect argument for re-hunting sites with different coils and different detectors!
BTW 3X silver to clad is awesome!

 

[MarkCZ]

I'm interested in taking my Coin$trike back in there with the 6" coil on it. I started out with it the other day but I switched to the Omega before I really gave the C$ a chance. With the C$ I did get some target responses that was hitting an ID of 40, this range puts the targets below the Hot Rock scale (60-71), but Well above the Half dollar range of 36-37 also, an ID of 40 would be completely off the ID scale of all the other detectors that we had out that day. I didn't dig them because 40 seemed to be to high for the normal range of coins that I hunt for, but after getting that rare to find half dollar I'm getting the idea I need to at lest dig a few of the 40's to verify what they are.
A half dollar or a silver dollar pretty much maxes out the ID range of our other detectors (97-99), but on the C$ this is only a little over half its upper ID range, So, an ID of 40 on the C$ puts the target right at the upper edge of a silver dollar.

Next trip I'll find out what the targets that ID'ed @ 40 were.

Mark

 

[Steve O]

MarkCZ....Any possibility the other detectors frequencies interfered with yours? Or did the test at home scratch that theory?

 

[MarkCZ]

MarkCZ....Any possibility the other detectors frequencies interfered with yours? Or did the test at home scratch that theory?

The F5 will interfere with the Omega for sure, but we worked that out in the field because we know its a problem, the air test at home with the Omega, the 5" DD and tilted coins has the same problem, a bad response past about 4" from the coil (iffy at best) about half the depth of the same coin being. passed across the coil flat.

Mark

 

[basstrackerman]

I think alot of detectors are like that..that may be why i found so many coins on edge with the sef 12x10 and 13" ultimate coils..received the return signal due to large coil maybe?? My etrac missed several on edge coins that my F70 found easily.. Before the dig side by side..so who knows lol

 

[MarkCZ]

Okay, I've got some PM's going now between forum member "Monte" and me and he's working with me and has stated that my drawings is not exactly right. So, I'm sure he'll have me doing some more testing and he's probably going to want me to plant a tilted coin in the ground for testing.

More later!

Happy New Year everybody!!!

Mark

 

[togg77]

Ron and brothers you guys make for really good reading. Keep it up.
Now a couple questions:
1. Ron if the half was on full edge wouldn't the top be at least as wide as a medium nail AND shouldn't the 75 really sound off on a target that size no more than 3 inches deep?
2. Was the signal you got on the half loud but iffy or was it just faint and iffy?
3.I have a nel sharpshooter on the way based on your tests---seems like the best of all worlds.

 

[WV62]

Ron and brothers you guys make for really good reading. Keep it up.
Now a couple questions:
1. Ron if the half was on full edge wouldn't the top be at least as wide as a medium nail AND shouldn't the 75 really sound off on a target that size no more than 3 inches deep?
2. Was the signal you got on the half loud but iffy or was it just faint and iffy?
3.I have a nel sharpshooter on the way based on your tests---seems like the best of all worlds.

togg77,
1. If it was straight up and down on edge (it wasn't) but just if. It kind of depends on which what your swing would hit approach the coin, side to side, end to end or someplace in between. Side to side you will get a full signal like two targets several inches from both sides. I have never had this happen with the F75 but back in the day it was pretty common, I would dig one hole nothing, then dig another hole nothing and then take out the web left in between both hole and there was the coin. This was back in the day before pin pointers, we couldn't check the sides of our holes, that may be why I haven't had that happen since I got a pin pointer. I was one of the old times that didn't want or need a pin pointer, a hand full of dirt in front of the coil was the only way to go. Now if I drive 15 miles to a hunting spot and I find I have left the pin pointer at home, I am heading back home.

Now if you hit it end to end I would think one of the 2 solid signals to the side of the coin would give you good single target signal off to the side of the coin. If you were using something like the 11" coil and the coin was in the middle of the coil on the swing you could span both hot signals buy you will only hear one. Bottom line you will end up the same way your PP will be off and you will either dig 2 holes or find it in the side of the hole with the hand held PP. It will not act like a nail because the 2 sides will give you a good signal, where a nail has no large surface area.

2. The signal was strong and iffy, scratchy, just wasn't clean, my guess is I was maybe swing in a different direction and was hitting some trash that was messing with the clean signal. That half was on a tilt but more like 20 or 30 degrees not a full 45 or more, and the coin was within the plug that was something like 3" thick. So the edge of that coin was almost at the surface.

3. I don't think you will have any problems with the NEL Sharpshooter, but I kind of look at the NEL being in the same class with the 11"dd coil. So I know there are bigger coils than the 11" so I would say the 11" and the NEL are in the medium class. In the small class I put the 6.5" concentric and the 5"dd. My detector came with 3 coils the 11", NEL and the 5" and the first thing I did was bought a 6.5", so I prefer the 6.5 over the 5, and I will put the NEL over the 11".

Ron in WV

 

[mudpuppy]

Basstracker brought up something interesting...in my experience with 10's of 1000's of (clad) coins..the 70 with the 11"dd hits coins on edge hard...I dont know why, but you can easily hear that its a dime or a Q on edge based upon the signal..its not the tight crisp 'ping' with an easily defined profile like a flat coin makes....oh its a ping alright, but somewhat scattered...when such a signal is encountered, a guy has to stomp hard on the spot, to try to get the signal to settle down a bit, then stab at a sharp angle to try to hit it with a probe (screwdriver)...my hardest recoverys are fresh dropped dimes in the deep grass that are on edge...signal pattern is large and hard to fit within a quickly one stab profile...the stomp trick flattens them out...a guy can tell immediately if a coin target is on edge down in the dirt, You know what it is and how deep it is by the modulated audio...so its like, "damn, heres a Q on edge at 4"...stomp, stab.... they do take a bit of finnese with a probe to get the touch on them sometimes...especially if they are in a multidenom slanted stack spill, which can sound like trash, but after a while you get know the difference....

I have to think theres a lot of old silver/buff or V combined multidenom slants and spills out there that have seen a coil but were passed over as junk...you Badger Bros might want to experiment with a Buff N on top of a silver Q or dime, on edge, slanted or flat...

I hunt without a pinpointer, unless you consider the Fpoint as one. I've got one of those!..it pretty much stays in the car unless I decide I'm hunting for a gold chain in the roots on a big soccer field, then I will bring it along..any 3" deep coin on edge should be no problem for an Fseries....experiment a bit..coil speed has a lot to do with it too...too slow, and the signal is gone...I dont know why...just passing along some real world dirt time discoveries behind the Fcoil that you may find helpful or interesting...
Mud