earthmansurfer
Active member
I found this small target at around 9
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Short Video - 9 inch Target - TTF "Masking" and Manual 30 vs Auto 29 plus 3
- Thread starter earthmansurfer
- Start date
earthmansurfer
Active member
That is refreshing to hear. I didn't want to offend TTF users. I think it might be better served in a different kind of iron environment (e.g. - nails).
Cladiator (OR)
Member
Excellent presentation--thank you! I have tried TTF at several locations with limited success, probably due to the same conditions your video demonstrates. I know it is one of those modes that a person would need to practice to get an "ear" for.
Thanks again!
Thanks again!
I think TTF was better more fluent..your swing was different in TTF and with discrimination in conductive. discrimination can be used in TTF too if you like it. You need to try Long sounds and you will see how better its sounds. and I think manual sensitivity for general detecting to high. 
EtracTom-AdirondacksNY
New member
TTF you definitely have to go slow amongst all that iron but if there was far less of it there you would have been able to go faster but obviously that spot is loaded with lots of iron. Try it sometime in a bit more cleaner area.
Conductive mode with discrimination like I said sometimes you can sweep a bit faster and get better results it seems to bring in signals when your out hunting for them.
Yes on that one target in Conductive and TTF I would have tried sounds LONG to see if it made the good target stand out more.
Nice videos keep them coming Albert we appreciate your efforts and your helping others too.
Conductive mode with discrimination like I said sometimes you can sweep a bit faster and get better results it seems to bring in signals when your out hunting for them.
Yes on that one target in Conductive and TTF I would have tried sounds LONG to see if it made the good target stand out more.
Nice videos keep them coming Albert we appreciate your efforts and your helping others too.
In my opinion you might have not even picked that target up if you had been in conductive at first. TTF allowed you to first hear it, then of course once you know where the target was, slow quick sweeps over it in conductive was going to produce a nice signal. I could hear the high tone in TTF easily, but like you said in your video, my ears are trained for it. I have had sites where i was in null 100% and had no option but to use TTF, and yes once you locate a target in TTF and then switch to conductive and make short sweeps over it, it will sound decent. But while in conductive and in a complete null, I have rarely ever had any good signals come thru unless they were very shallow. I think while in an area that your getting complete null, TTF is still a very powerful weapon. I have went over areas that I pounded and gridded in all directions in conductive, then go over them again in TTF and pull coins that that completely just do NOT give a signal in conductive because of nails being directly on top on them.
Dont get me wrong, I prefer conductive over TTF anyday of the week and will use it as much as possible. But if I am in an area with all null, OR an area that is hunted out while using conductive I will def. use TTF to continue to make good finds. TTF takes practice to learn, but it will produce finds that simply cannot be gotten while in conductive in certain occasions.
Dont get me wrong, I prefer conductive over TTF anyday of the week and will use it as much as possible. But if I am in an area with all null, OR an area that is hunted out while using conductive I will def. use TTF to continue to make good finds. TTF takes practice to learn, but it will produce finds that simply cannot be gotten while in conductive in certain occasions.
earthmansurfer
Active member
Again thanks for the comments - I'm eating this up!
Stasys - I do have to try long in TTF. I didn't think of it. And Tom says that too. I'll have to try that, I was just worried with all the iron I'd hear a bunch of "looooong" iron. But even if I do, the high tone will be longer. The detector goes to auto 29 no problem at a lot of this site. So, I'll disagree with you on manual 30 being too much. Watch the video, I could have easily missed that target in auto. And, I've tested other 7" or 8" targets in auto vs manual 30 and (in this 1% iron mineralized and iron laden site) the auto sens +3 OFTEN missed the deeper targets or the signal was cut in half (one way and not two, like in this video (on one plane I mean)).
Tom - Yes, I see what you mean about trying it in a less iron dense area (at least for learning and getting my ears hearing it). And as Goes4Ever says, his ears are trained for it. I totally agree with discriminate being able to go faster and of course using discrim in TTF would do the same thing I think, but defeating the purpose I imagine. Will be trying long!
Goes4Ever - Honestly, and understand before filming I went through the motions with the target. That target stood out much much better in conductive. But, again, like you said, your ears are trained for it. I did hear it but hearing quiet and then a beep is a lot easier than hearing a beep inside of iron. I mean there was almost no pause between the iron and beep. When I went really slow the beep in TTF wasn't really there, so that tells me I have to be careful. But, this was just one target. Notice my sweeps included long sweeps in conductive not just the short "check me" sweeps ;-) I agree it's powerful and my ears have to learn it. I am careful as you can see in saying TTF isn't good. I am clearly learning it on this machine. But, I do prefer a more quiet hunt. You know what I mean - After a noisy hunt you can get that "hunt sound" in your ears - I don't like that!
As usual, very much appreciated and I think these discussions are helping lots of us, even Stasys
Take care guys,
Albert
ps - Goes4ever - I was at your site last night and liked you comparison of deep on with/out fast on (think that was at your site too or minelab forums), on a quarter, silver dime and penny. Since you have a garden, could you test and post the results of deep off AND fast off on the ID's? That is the only combination you left out. I am really curious to see that one as I think I will try running it. What is interesting is deep on has extra filtering and fast on has LESS filtering. I'd almost think to get the purest signal, to run deep off and fast on - but running fast on risks missing deeper (shortened) signals. In your test that was the best result!
Stasys - I do have to try long in TTF. I didn't think of it. And Tom says that too. I'll have to try that, I was just worried with all the iron I'd hear a bunch of "looooong" iron. But even if I do, the high tone will be longer. The detector goes to auto 29 no problem at a lot of this site. So, I'll disagree with you on manual 30 being too much. Watch the video, I could have easily missed that target in auto. And, I've tested other 7" or 8" targets in auto vs manual 30 and (in this 1% iron mineralized and iron laden site) the auto sens +3 OFTEN missed the deeper targets or the signal was cut in half (one way and not two, like in this video (on one plane I mean)).
Tom - Yes, I see what you mean about trying it in a less iron dense area (at least for learning and getting my ears hearing it). And as Goes4Ever says, his ears are trained for it. I totally agree with discriminate being able to go faster and of course using discrim in TTF would do the same thing I think, but defeating the purpose I imagine. Will be trying long!
Goes4Ever - Honestly, and understand before filming I went through the motions with the target. That target stood out much much better in conductive. But, again, like you said, your ears are trained for it. I did hear it but hearing quiet and then a beep is a lot easier than hearing a beep inside of iron. I mean there was almost no pause between the iron and beep. When I went really slow the beep in TTF wasn't really there, so that tells me I have to be careful. But, this was just one target. Notice my sweeps included long sweeps in conductive not just the short "check me" sweeps ;-) I agree it's powerful and my ears have to learn it. I am careful as you can see in saying TTF isn't good. I am clearly learning it on this machine. But, I do prefer a more quiet hunt. You know what I mean - After a noisy hunt you can get that "hunt sound" in your ears - I don't like that!
As usual, very much appreciated and I think these discussions are helping lots of us, even Stasys
Take care guys,
Albert
ps - Goes4ever - I was at your site last night and liked you comparison of deep on with/out fast on (think that was at your site too or minelab forums), on a quarter, silver dime and penny. Since you have a garden, could you test and post the results of deep off AND fast off on the ID's? That is the only combination you left out. I am really curious to see that one as I think I will try running it. What is interesting is deep on has extra filtering and fast on has LESS filtering. I'd almost think to get the purest signal, to run deep off and fast on - but running fast on risks missing deeper (shortened) signals. In your test that was the best result!
yes I have had others request I do the test with both OFF, I will try to get that done in the near future.
I agree with you that I prefer a quieter hunt as well. I do NOT enjoy all the iron sounds while running TTF, but I have some sites where that is the ONLY way you can hunt, period.
I have one field site that has SO MUCH iron that I can't even use the stock coil and TTF. I have to use the 6x8 with a 100% screen with TTF to be able to makes any finds at all. There is like 12-15 iron hits per swing. It is the worst iron site I have ever encountered. But this site has gave up 3 large cents, fatty indian, 1700's tombac buttons, couple civil war buttons etc. You have to move so slow it takes FOREVER. The large cents were less than 2" deep and even with the 6x8 coil, I could not get them with conductive mode, they were just held hostage by the iron.
I just had surgery last week, hopefully when spring gets here, I will try to get some videos up
I agree with you that I prefer a quieter hunt as well. I do NOT enjoy all the iron sounds while running TTF, but I have some sites where that is the ONLY way you can hunt, period.
I have one field site that has SO MUCH iron that I can't even use the stock coil and TTF. I have to use the 6x8 with a 100% screen with TTF to be able to makes any finds at all. There is like 12-15 iron hits per swing. It is the worst iron site I have ever encountered. But this site has gave up 3 large cents, fatty indian, 1700's tombac buttons, couple civil war buttons etc. You have to move so slow it takes FOREVER. The large cents were less than 2" deep and even with the 6x8 coil, I could not get them with conductive mode, they were just held hostage by the iron.
I just had surgery last week, hopefully when spring gets here, I will try to get some videos up
Jason in Enid
Active member
EMS, I relly like the videos you have done the E-Trac. That type of testing / recording is what everyone who swings an E-Trac needs to watch to learn thier machine better. I have noticed from your page that you did the same thing with the V3i. Having spent time really trying to learn both machines, what are your opinions of the pros / cons of the two?
earthmansurfer
Active member
Hey Jason, you have given good suggestions on the boards before - I remember you.
Ok, first I'll say I agree with those who have used both say AND I'm not just saying it - The V3i and E-Trac are both top of the line machines. I'll write these for the general user, not so much what I want or need. There is more to say for the V3i because it has more things/settings to comment on.
V3i Pros:
Superior Screen, buttons, backlight, viewing angles, brightness - This part is not even close.
Wireless headphones are nice but not as great as I thought - I like to remove headphones when I dig anyway.
Super adjustable (also a con), boost process, recovery delay, filters (this needs to have an auto option, can KILL depth), etc.
3 frequency pinpoint - excellent for ID'ing silver and other metals. Not foolproof but excellent. Also, when each frequency lines up in search, it is often a good target.
Shortcut menu is GREAT. When you go back into menu you are exactly where you last were, exact setting.
Pinpoint seems better than on E-Trac with sizing.
VERY sensitive to small objects.
Great customer service.
GREAT quick controls on "live screen" - in other words you can go to the main menu for adjustments like the E-Trac OR just have buttons that act like knobs. Very nice. Needed with more settings though.
I think it falses less on iron - I have heard others say the opposite. Running correlate quiets this machine down immensely.
Excellent sounds. Don't let the visual aids make you think otherwise.
V3i Cons:
Some features like sensitivity should have an automated function - I say this because after running the E-Trac it is clear auto sens serves a purpose
.8 pounds heavier than E-Trac - yes, Kellyo has the WRONG info here. I weighed both on gram kitchen scales. Also, the control box is wider and this means it needs to be slightly away from the body. This bothers me. Harder to swing than E-Trac. This is bothersome for had I known the E-Trac was lighter I would have gotten it first.
Complicated - I often leave a site thinking could I have set it up better.
I wasn't getting the depth and I felt VERY comfy with machine, sounds and controls. Others have said the same. Yet I know it goes deep - setting issue perhaps.
VDI not as accurate at depth nor overall, still good though and better than most, but not better than E-Trac.
Can give erratic behavior with being noisy. A great ground balance is a must.
As far as the message boards go, for a more technical machine I found very few people getting into the details of the machine here. Made discovery a bit harder. It exists, but not the way you would expect.
At new sites, or even old sites when conditions change, you have to check the settings. e.g. - Filters can need changing after a rain.
Old physical design.
When run hot, iron falses can be a problem.
A note on the V3i - After using it A LOT I can say a lot of the settings when changed don't do as much as you would think. e.g. - I have hunted in heavy iron and played with recovery at all levels and this machine can be VERY fast or VERY slow. I can usually pick up coins in iron anywhere (when running correlate). I think they can simplify things a bit here but overall the machine is very very nice.
E-Trac Pros:
Very Deep out of box, simple to operate (compared to V3i it's like an Ace 250), quiet to operate in auto.
The overall machine has a newer design look - molded of sorts. Again, you can keep it closer to your body due to the smaller box width (on the V3i it is lower, so that is different.)
2D screen - VERY NICE feature. The iron bounce to help ID deeper targets.
Depth meter seems more accurate.
VDI accuracy - Best BY FAR I have ever used.
Patterns in 2D is much more powerful than just plain linear discrimination. Hard to describe but it has advantages (mostly because of bounces - they are easier to see as they stick to Fe plane more.)
Excellent sounds also.
E-Trac cons:
See screen above. This borders on very BAD. The backlight in the day doesn't do anything. This should be much better for the money.
Buttons are too small with some gloves on. The buttons on the V3i are excellent and have a much more quality feel.
Not as adjustable overall, not close - both good and bad.
Short cut menu is non existent. If you want to play on a target with fast on and off, you go to the top of the menu each time and then back down to the setting played with.
Pinpoint doesn't seem as finely adjustable as on V3i. I can size better on V3i.
Customer service better but has been problematic.
Iron can trick you but it's not that bad if you learn to check targets in quick mask. I'd still say more difficult with V3i except when running hot. Then V3i can be VERY BAD.
More stable in general, regardless of large stock coil.
Overall the V3i has more things you can set to make it just how you want it, but I keep coming back to the E-Trac. It's adjustable enough and deep out of the box. Even though the V3i can be complicated if you stick with the main settings it can be turn and go after you come to understand it. As other things come to me, as I know I have forgotten some, I'll mention it.
As you can see I wrote some nice things and maybe more things for the V3i but it has more things to write about. This isn't a knock against the E-Trac, it does very well with what it has, doesn't need (much) more.
Funny, this comparison is a little like a PC vs. a Mac. The V3i being the PC and the E-Trac being the Mac. The Mac/E-Trac just works, less flexible yes, but just works well. I have less problems with it. That said, it's sort of like the Mac being used is a bit older and less flexible, but you sacrifice some things cause it just works well. They both seem great in iron, but haven't used E-Trac enough.
Hope that was helpful and questions welcome,
Albert
Ok, first I'll say I agree with those who have used both say AND I'm not just saying it - The V3i and E-Trac are both top of the line machines. I'll write these for the general user, not so much what I want or need. There is more to say for the V3i because it has more things/settings to comment on.
V3i Pros:
Superior Screen, buttons, backlight, viewing angles, brightness - This part is not even close.
Wireless headphones are nice but not as great as I thought - I like to remove headphones when I dig anyway.
Super adjustable (also a con), boost process, recovery delay, filters (this needs to have an auto option, can KILL depth), etc.
3 frequency pinpoint - excellent for ID'ing silver and other metals. Not foolproof but excellent. Also, when each frequency lines up in search, it is often a good target.
Shortcut menu is GREAT. When you go back into menu you are exactly where you last were, exact setting.
Pinpoint seems better than on E-Trac with sizing.
VERY sensitive to small objects.
Great customer service.
GREAT quick controls on "live screen" - in other words you can go to the main menu for adjustments like the E-Trac OR just have buttons that act like knobs. Very nice. Needed with more settings though.
I think it falses less on iron - I have heard others say the opposite. Running correlate quiets this machine down immensely.
Excellent sounds. Don't let the visual aids make you think otherwise.
V3i Cons:
Some features like sensitivity should have an automated function - I say this because after running the E-Trac it is clear auto sens serves a purpose
.8 pounds heavier than E-Trac - yes, Kellyo has the WRONG info here. I weighed both on gram kitchen scales. Also, the control box is wider and this means it needs to be slightly away from the body. This bothers me. Harder to swing than E-Trac. This is bothersome for had I known the E-Trac was lighter I would have gotten it first.
Complicated - I often leave a site thinking could I have set it up better.
I wasn't getting the depth and I felt VERY comfy with machine, sounds and controls. Others have said the same. Yet I know it goes deep - setting issue perhaps.
VDI not as accurate at depth nor overall, still good though and better than most, but not better than E-Trac.
Can give erratic behavior with being noisy. A great ground balance is a must.
As far as the message boards go, for a more technical machine I found very few people getting into the details of the machine here. Made discovery a bit harder. It exists, but not the way you would expect.
At new sites, or even old sites when conditions change, you have to check the settings. e.g. - Filters can need changing after a rain.
Old physical design.
When run hot, iron falses can be a problem.
A note on the V3i - After using it A LOT I can say a lot of the settings when changed don't do as much as you would think. e.g. - I have hunted in heavy iron and played with recovery at all levels and this machine can be VERY fast or VERY slow. I can usually pick up coins in iron anywhere (when running correlate). I think they can simplify things a bit here but overall the machine is very very nice.
E-Trac Pros:
Very Deep out of box, simple to operate (compared to V3i it's like an Ace 250), quiet to operate in auto.
The overall machine has a newer design look - molded of sorts. Again, you can keep it closer to your body due to the smaller box width (on the V3i it is lower, so that is different.)
2D screen - VERY NICE feature. The iron bounce to help ID deeper targets.
Depth meter seems more accurate.
VDI accuracy - Best BY FAR I have ever used.
Patterns in 2D is much more powerful than just plain linear discrimination. Hard to describe but it has advantages (mostly because of bounces - they are easier to see as they stick to Fe plane more.)
Excellent sounds also.
E-Trac cons:
See screen above. This borders on very BAD. The backlight in the day doesn't do anything. This should be much better for the money.
Buttons are too small with some gloves on. The buttons on the V3i are excellent and have a much more quality feel.
Not as adjustable overall, not close - both good and bad.
Short cut menu is non existent. If you want to play on a target with fast on and off, you go to the top of the menu each time and then back down to the setting played with.
Pinpoint doesn't seem as finely adjustable as on V3i. I can size better on V3i.
Customer service better but has been problematic.
Iron can trick you but it's not that bad if you learn to check targets in quick mask. I'd still say more difficult with V3i except when running hot. Then V3i can be VERY BAD.
More stable in general, regardless of large stock coil.
Overall the V3i has more things you can set to make it just how you want it, but I keep coming back to the E-Trac. It's adjustable enough and deep out of the box. Even though the V3i can be complicated if you stick with the main settings it can be turn and go after you come to understand it. As other things come to me, as I know I have forgotten some, I'll mention it.
As you can see I wrote some nice things and maybe more things for the V3i but it has more things to write about. This isn't a knock against the E-Trac, it does very well with what it has, doesn't need (much) more.
Funny, this comparison is a little like a PC vs. a Mac. The V3i being the PC and the E-Trac being the Mac. The Mac/E-Trac just works, less flexible yes, but just works well. I have less problems with it. That said, it's sort of like the Mac being used is a bit older and less flexible, but you sacrifice some things cause it just works well. They both seem great in iron, but haven't used E-Trac enough.
Hope that was helpful and questions welcome,
Albert
Jason in Enid
Active member
Wow, that was an incredible comparison writeup! THAT should be an article in the treasure hunting mags.
I only have good info to give to new users because of the hard work of great folks like you!
I only have good info to give to new users because of the hard work of great folks like you!