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Simple mod. for the AN-19/2 nets another 2" on Gold

A

Anonymous

Guest
1. I removed all metal hardware on pole and shaft & replaced it with Nylon hardware.
2. Cut 4.5" off the upper shaft.
The lower shaft for this detector is 29". That got me thinking maybe with the mod. the detector is seeing itself.
It was!! <img src="/metal/html/frown.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":(">
Air test with new Mod. <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":)">
Mens 14k heavy ring size 10...........15"
Mens 14k band size 10.................14.5"
Womens 14k thin gold rings.............11"
Nickle..................................11"
Quarter.................................10"
Like all PI's it should go deeper in the wet sand (halo/saltwater). Yes, Gold jewelry can have a halo!
HH God bless,
Matt (SD,CA)
 
I have just been lurking here for a while trying to learn about PI detector
 
Bobby,
Well you've said what I have being wanting to say !!, but being the polite, diplomatic Australian that I am (yes, there's a few of us left...hehehehe <img src="/metal/html/lol.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":lol"> ), I have decided to keep it that way.
This is the only site you need visit for everything PI. I am strictly an end user but have educated myself on the basics of PI theory. I like to know a little about what's going on beneath the coil, and why things do what they do. I have been swinging the Goldquest SS exclusively for about 18 months now....It is the only detector I use and I guess I have about 500 hours of use with it. It is a sensational piece of electronics for someone that is happy to dig most (not all) targets at depths that are really second to none...especially GOLD.
I know I sound like a dealer, but I'm far from it.
I like to post on the performance of the GQ, so others can gauge just what can be gotten out of this machine. Like anything, once you get a real feel for the machine, and by this, I don't mean over a few weekends, but over a few months, then you really begin to admire what can be dug up.
I like to finish by saying my general beach conditions exclude a lot of iron targets and the sand is predominantly white (coral)...black sands are insignificant. I probably wont post target depths in the future as they are for my conditions here in Western Australia, but I'm sure there are many beaches in the USA that would be similar...maybe not parts of California <img src="/metal/html/confused.gif" border=0 width=15 height=22 alt=":?">
Anyhow, it's a great forum with very knowledgeable people <img src="/metal/html/glasses.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":geek:"> <img src="/metal/html/glasses.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":geek:"> who eagerly await any and all questions.
All the very best if you become a PI junkie just like me. <img src="/metal/html/grin.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":grin">
Tony. <IMG SRC="/metal/html/ausflag.jpg" BORDER=0 width=32 height=17 ALT="au~">
 
As far as I am aware is what Eric Foster once replied to a question posted here about the field pattern above and below the coil.
Part of his reply was: "With the coil held just above the ground, the field pattern under the coil will be modified by the conductive and magnetic properties of the ground, but the pattern above the coil will remain virtually unaffected."
From his reply this would mean any metal parts interferring with the field above the coil WOULD NOT be reflected under the Coil.
Gazza.
 
Why do believe that the things that Matt is saying are BS? I learned many years ago that a detector will pick up the lower shaft if ti was metal and withing the detection range of the detector...after all it is a closed ring! I think most detector manufacturers learned that same lesson over the years and today almost all metal detectors have either fiberglass of plastic lower shafts. I can uderstand you wanting to dismiss the AN192 because it's a Mine Detector and in the past Mine detectors have not been known for being that great on smaller objects like those that we search for. However you obviously didn't follow the link to the AN192 website that was also posted earlier in the week and take the time to read about the AN192 and the factory upgrades that it has had. Today's Mine detectors are very sensitive detectors unlike the older ones. They have to be as some of today's mines have practically no metal in them. The depth's in his tests are well within the range of most of today's PI's.They are not as deep as a Goldquest SS and no where near the depth of an Aquastar. I don't see anything unbelieveable in what Matt has posted but that's just my opinion!
HH
Beachcomber
 
Hi Bobby,
Im sorry for not pointing out the FACT that the AN-19/2 mine detector was made to find PLASTIC MINES. The ones with only a little fireing pin!!
The STOCK AN-19/2 audio starts with a clicking threshold. Then as it goes over a metal object sounds like most detectors in all metal.
With the MOD. the AN 19/2 detector starts off the same way. For Shallow targets 7" coins/rings sounds like a detector in all metal. After that depth it start making clicking sounds fast to slow. Deep targets may only have 2 or 3 clicks per second.
I hate to say it but you made a real fool of yourself on the comment about the GOLD.
YES, PURE GOLD has very very little halo.
But GOLD JEWELRY can have a detectable halo. <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":)">
GOLD JEWELRY is not pure GOLD!! I have found some pretty crusty 14K jewelry at the beach. I forgive you !! <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":)"> <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":)">
GoldQuest guys/ gals pull your lower shaft with coil out of the upper shaft. And test it if picks up more depth.
HH God Bless,
Matt (SD,CA)
 
My, my, my, I probably should clean this mess up. If it gets out of hand I will. <img src="/metal/html/nono.gif" border=0 width=22 height=19 alt=":nono">
I would like to make a comments about what I see posted here.
First place: Matt if your happy with the AN-19/2, great, I
 
First of all, gold, whether in it's pure state or in it's alloyed state, will not and does not produce a detectable "halo". This is especially true of pulse induction machines.
Prove it to yourself. Take any gold item that is detectable by your machine, and file it down into dust with a file. Now try to detect it again with any PI machine.
If you can't detect the same target material once it's reduced to filings, how can it be possible to detect this so-called "halo" phenomenon ?
There is so much hype and overblown BS over "halo-effect", both with PI and VLF type machines that it boggles the imagination. Unfortunately it is one of those "urban myths" that is continually perpetuated mostly by those who simply don't understand how the PI detectors themselves work in detecting targets via eddy currents that are produced within items having a minimum requirement of "conductive continuity". Sulfides and oxides that leach out of the non-ferrous metals fail to have that continuity to even produce the detectable eddy currents in the first place.
 
Hi Matt,
I've never found any evidence of a halo effect with non-ferrous metals. As Ralph says, any leaching out of oxides, sulphides etc. etc., if they did increase the conductivity of the surrounding ground, would have much too fast a signal decay to be detectable. What is often confused with
 
<img src="/metal/html/lol.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":lol">
 
The AN-19/2 is a NON MOTION PI. It DOSENT NEED MOTION to detect a target!! When the lowershaft is pushed upward into the upper shaft with the unit turned on it responds like any other target. And thats a FACT!!! Im surprised how much you now about a detector you have NEVER TRIED!! Please no more comments on My AN-19/2 with Mods. FACT: You have not used MY AN -19/2. FACT: I have owned a GoldQuest SS YOU sold to Lewis Givens. I bought it in MINT COND.
still on its first set of batterys !! Fact: I SOLD it!!
HH God Bless,
Matt (SD,CA)
 
Hi Matt,
Nobody is a fool when it comes to believing in the halo effect. There has been too many things written about it, even by manufacturers over the years which make people believe in the "Halo effect".
Like Eric, I have never found any truth to the "halo effect". When I wrote a column for Lost Treasure, years ago, I tried multiple experiments to see if I could find any truth to the "halo effect". I even filed down a piece of metal, much like Ralph suggested earlier. No I didn't file down a gold ring, but did file down a piece of copper. The results always came out the same, no increase in depth.
I personally think this term got its start or was created by manufacturers coming up with the idea as a means to "enhance" the depth of those early detectors.
I don't know if you ever used the early bfo's and TR's, but I did when I got my start with metal detectors back in the late 1960's. In simple terms, they sucked in depth of detection. The manufacturers used to make outrages claims of how well they worked. Generally, they would imply the "halo" would enhance the depth considerably, so it was impossible to really "check" how well the detector really worked by burying something and then checking.
If you did check, you would be disappointed and could only hope that the "halo effect" worked.
Now, does disturbing the ground have an effect. The answer is yes but for different reasons and this effect is much more pronounced when working with a discriminating motion machine. In this case, the condition can be explained.
Actually, I have found that ground disturbance with a digging tool, etc, seems to have some effect on depth capabilities on a PI. It has nothing to do with the "halo effect" per se, but rather with other factors. Such depth capability variations can be seen with uneven ground also.
Other things such as certain "hotrocks" such as a piece of magnetite seem to alter depth capabilities or a non-ferrous object some. In other words, something such as a small pocket of "black sand" just may enhance a deeper target signal. However, this isn't the "halo effect" as it is commonly thought of.
I guess what I am trying to say is the issue is complex and there are real reasons one just might find an object deeper than normal, but the "halo effect" isn't one of them, in my opinion.
Reg
 
The only justification for halo effect is in that in some soils a copper or silver coin as it attacked by acids in damp/wet soil can generate a slight voltage. I assume this then has the effect of the old Compass 'Depth Doubler' where putting a current in the ground increased detection depth.
Many years back I placed various coins at the bottom of plastic drainpipes containing acid soils and detection depth improved (slightly) as long as the soil remained damp. Dry a pipe out in an airing cupboard for a few months and the improvement was lost.
A George VI sixpence (50%silver,50%alloy) when removed after several years looked fairly O.K. but had lost weight and in fact snapped like a twig. The lost metal must have entered the surrounding soil but was not detectable or, someone with battery knowledge come in here, been consumed by the chemical reaction that had taken place.
 
All I can say Reg is "BINGO". You should consider writing an extensive article on this subject for publication. This urban legend has been used and abused for far too long....... <img src="/metal/html/lol.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":lol">
Ralph
 
...."When the lowershaft is pushed upward into the upper shaft with the unit turned on it responds like any other target"......
In the case you described, the coil and the "target" (the shaft) are still IN RELATIVE MOTION to each other, vertically instead of horizontally. That in itself doesn't indicate a non-motion machine.
Methinks if you are trying to challenge Bill Crabtree's knowledge of metal detectors, you're a bit out of your league !
Nuff Sed.
 
Even the Minelab folks will tell newbies that freshly buried coins in their coin gardens are more difficult to detect without the "halo".
I believe all of this got started back in the BFO days decades ago. When we encountered a weathered, rusty piece of iron with a lot of rust around the edges, we would detect the rust just before the iron. It was then a simple matter to equate all metals as having significant oxidation "halos" with time.
George
 
Hi Brian,
You are right in regards to moisture and depth enhancement, but I believe the reason is not because of the "halo effect", but rather because of the phase shift that occurs do to the moisture and the "salts" in the soil.
This is really noticeable on a VLF in the disc mode. One can see almost as much as a 50% increase in depth capabilities between dry ground and wet ground. It becomes very noticeable in clay type grounds. This is one of the things I could verify on a consistent basis.
It is a little off topic here, but moisture can have a dramatic effect even on freshly or recently buried objects when using a VLF. On TID machines, one could "see" good objects respond as trash. Add a little water, wait a while, and bingo, suddenly, the TID would change. I ran experiments along this line way back in the Tek Mark 1 days.
Unfortunately, I haven't done enough experimenting with my PI as it relates to moisture or lack thereof to say for sure just what happens. I have been too busy with other PI related issues.
Reg
 
Hi Matt,
I don't think anyone is knocking your PI. I know I won't. If it is good enough for the UN to use then it obviously has to be a good detector. Also, if the delay is down to 6 usec or so as stated earlier, then it certainly should be very sensitive. I am impressed because it is extremely difficult to get a PI to operate at such a short delay. If have done it but it took a whole lot of work.
Now, I have not tried the Schiebel PI but looking at the pic, it is pretty obvious the PI has a transmit and a separate receive coil.
This by itself will make any PI much more stable, or better stated, quieter. At least, it has in every experiment I have done. So, I would expect this detector to be more stable overall.
Personally, I have found that using a coil that has a separate receive coil makes it easier to hear some of the very small changes. That is why I use a DD most of the time. (I haven't mastered building the concentric coil yet).
An isolated receive coil not only reduces the noise some, it also reduces any ground signal which also helps.
On the down side, building a DD or concentric coil also adds to the cost considerably to the consumer. Fortunately, you got a good deal on yours.
Keep us posted on how it works.
Reg
 
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