Sound and Depth observation

[Jeff in Pa]

I have been concerned of the depth I have been seeing lately with my stock coil. When I first used my Deus I was seeing very good depth with my stock coil for the first couple of hunts and found some very deep targets with ease. I started to think back at what I may of changed that could explain why I have not hit any of the 9 and 10" coins lately.
I realized what it was I changed. When I first hunted with it I had my Audio Response set at 6 because my hearing is very bad and this allowed the weak, deeper signals to come in loud. I had since changed it to 4 or 5. I started to do some air tests to see if this was my problem.

With the Audio response set at 4 I could barely hear a silver dime at 8" on the ruler. I then bumped up the Audio response to 6 and could hear a nice sound at 11" and beyond on the ruler!!

All this time I was just not hearing them because of the Audio response!!

My thoughts are now to those who have bad hearing, try turning that up and see what happens!!


Jeff

 

[AnthonyD]

Jeff, thanks for suggestion, my hearing is not what it used to be either and I tend to turn up the headphone volume. I am using the WS5 headphone which I like a little better the WS4's for the isolation especially on the beach. The wind on Long Beach Island this time of the year can be a distraction. I will try your suggestion on my small coin garden tomorrow.

 

[CZconnoisseur]

Hey guys I have been in the hearing instrument industry for 7 years now and wanted to give you all a suggestion. Go to a local audiologist, or a Sam's Club - somewhere where you can get a free hearing test and see what your thresholds of hearing are.

Sam's Club offers free hearing tests and you can take the results home with you to program your Deus. Tell the audiologist/dispenser you would like a hearing test, of course, but have them test 250, 500, 750, and 1000 Hz - which is within the range of the Deus. If you have bad hearing say, above 750 Hz, you can set the "high tones" to an area below 750 Hz so you won't miss those deeper targets!!! It's important that they test 750 Hz since this is a "mid-tone" for the Deus and doesn't add much if any time to the hearing test

Since the Deus has adjustable tones, you can tailor your machine to "sound off" in the areas of your best hearing, and in most cases this would be the low tones, below 1000 Hz. Most people with hearing loss lose the high frequencies first, if it's a noise-induced loss. 1000 Hz is a mid-frequency tone, but there are some out there who have trouble hearing low and mid-frequency tones.

The same holds true for a "reverse-slope" hearing loss - which means that the low tones are worse off than the higher tones - again, you can tailor the Deus to fit whatever kind of loss you may have.

It may take a little getting used to with different-sounding tones, but this insures that you won't miss as many of the soft, higher tones that many times are keepers....

Have a happy New Year!

 

[Jeff in Pa]

Very good suggestion!!

Thank You!!

 

[msviking]

Good point. I really like the higher audio response settings as it certainly makes the deeper signals "appear" larger/shallower. I realize it's just amplifying the weaker tones, but it certainly helps me! I have also noticed that higher reactivity settings also kill my depth. The Deus is super quick at a reactivity of 1, when I go to 2 or 3 in my soil, depth goes out the window.

HH
Roberts

 

[Ism]

Always nice to get useful information, thanks for the heads up Jeff!

 

[Jeff in Pa]

I am quickly learning that the Deus discrimination and depth are exact opposites with the Deus and dont mix well. I started running the discrimination at 5. I get better depth by lowering it from 10 to 5. I don't mind the extra low tones because I was used to listening to a medely of noises with the Etrac.

 

[Henrikras]

I've been testing the max. dept with different adjustment, and I had like you Allways thought that Reactivity had a lot to say in dept, but found out that isn't much.
One test with a silver coin a little smaller that a coin in dime size, flat site up.. The GMP program and 5,5" was max dept. (6") NO signal. All settings standard, GB 87 man. to my soil.
Reactivity one step up to 3, and still signal at 5,5" dept only a little bit weaker. At 5" dept I couldn't feel or see the different. Ist seem to me that it wasn't 0,5" different, more like 0,1-0,2".
There same happen with the disc. setting. Disc.2.0 to disc. 40, it wasn't much different. Offcourse If we are using Reactivity 3 (deus fast) with low sens. (80-85) and high disc., all that together will make less dept.
Max. Dept can Be found by the program "all metal", where you in 3 or 4 tones are adjusting the tones.... Disc.0 / tone 1 = 200 hz, tone 2 - 0 to 24 = 200 hz, tone 3 - 24 to 60 = 600 hz, and last tone 4 - 60 to 99 = 740 hz.... All the high tones can Be change like you prefer, the bottom line is that tone 2 is a low tone. The problem with this program, is that you can't lower down the iron Volume (low tones). Some prefer the 3 tone going all the way up to 97 in a high tone, and make tone 4 at 98-99 in a low 200 hz tone.
Reativity 1 is so slow that you will lose more that you will get i dept.... No good idea. Do a test with some iron close to a object, and you will see that Reactivity 2 even got problems and Reactivity 3 is so much better, If there is iron close.
All the my test was done with the 9" and 11" (the new) coils, in the 2.0 software.

 

[Jeff in Pa]

Thank You for posting your observations.

I am using V 3.2 and running the 8 KHTZ.

 

[msviking]

Sharing our data and experiences is very helpful to all of us here. I can tell you in the parks I hunt here in MS the reactivity setting at higher numbers kills my depth. I have tested this by finding a target on a reactivity setting of 1 that was reading 75-85 on the VDI at 11.6 khz / sens = 92, no discrimation that was approx. 8" or so deep. I then started raising the reactivity by one increment at a time, once I hit 2 in reactivity the sound was very broken and totally lost at reactivity = 3. I repeated this numerous times. Target turned out to either be a bottle cap or coin.
I am continuing to hunt some with higher reactivity settings in some areas I have hunted in hopes of pulling some good targets out of iron, so far the loss of depth was the overriding factor.

I plan on doing a lot more testing this weekend (wx allowing) and will report back.

Good discussion.

HH
Robert

 

[CZconnoisseur]

I like HENRIKAS' idea of using NO DISC and using multiple tones for audio ID of targets. Theoretically instead of running 6.8 to 10 DISC settings, you could tourn it down to ZERO while still keeping targets registering in that range a low 200 Hz - it may be more noisy like this but if this alone adds 1-2" of depth, then why not? I think I read somewhere that the Deus was built around this idea...you still hear the iron - you know it's there- but the non-ferrous targets can and should be detected a bit deeper, which is what most of us are after, right? (not counting aluminum screw caps at 9" down however :veryangry

May do some air testing tonight with DISC at factory levels and at ZERO - I will use Prog #3 - Deus Fast V3.2 - and see how much added depth can be attained. If this test adds a consistent, considerable amount of additional penetration then I will model the rest of my programs accordingly. The reason I'm choosing Deus Fast is that it has the highest reactivity setting on its own - so other programs may see more gains with lower reactivity settings. Again, I know air testing is limited, but it's a quick way to see the MAXIMUM effect (not necessarily the REAL WORLD effect) of different settings. I've found that if I can detect a quarter or similar-sized object at 12" air test, then in my soil max detectable depth is around 9-10"

I would go out to the test garden but the weather has turned for the worse for a few days!

 

[Henrikras]

The disc.0.0 program can take some time to learn all the new Sound respond. (Like a new Detector). In the time I was working and testing this, I came to an idea, which I never ended, but If we had some Headphones, with a unit built in the headphones, like a equalizer to finetune all the tones... This Unit should had its advance to lower the 200hz like a iron Volume.
If that could Be made, I think we had our Deus like Formel 1 car. Same unit could finetune every ear and hearing problems.

 

[CZconnoisseur]

^That's a great idea! You should post that in the "wishlist" section of this forum - maybe a self-testing "loudness balance" option for folks who may have differing thresholds of hearing between 250 and 1000 Hz.

The software could present a tone, starting at 200 Hz, and the user could rate the tone as "too loud", "too soft", or "just right". After the user sets the inital comfort level by pressing up or down arrows, then an additional tone is presented after the 200 Hz tone, say at 300 Hz; then the user adjusts the 300 Hz perceived loudness level relative to the 200 Hz tone, and so on up to 1000 Hz. This is how we set the "comfort level" for new patients' hearing instruments - the patient tells US what is comfortable rather than a prescribed formula, or average, dictated by a hearing aid manufacturer. What results is better first-time-user acceptance of instruments, and less follow-up adjustments, which leads to greater overall patient satisfaction in the long haul.

This would be an option available to new and/or existing Deus users (possibly an update...V3.3???). XP would have limits in that they could not exceed a certain db level for the higher 500-1000Hz tones, something like 90-100dB, since the normal human ear is most sensitive (without noise-induced hearing loss) to the 500-3000Hz range.

This way, the higher-toned targets wouldn't be missed as much leading to better finds and a more fulfilling pasttime!!! Please ANYONE feel free to post this in the "Wishlist" forum - I may forget later...

 

[Henrikras]

Whau....that would Be a Dream to many, If that could Be made. We only need to say, wirelees option with no lag to use with other detector brands, can be an other option allso.
But If not posible I'm saticefired with the option to my Deus..
With the WS04 control unit it should Be easy to make some Headphones with the unit built in, with two AAA size batteries, 20-30 hours working.
Prize limit !!! I dont know, but 500 $ If they a revolution. Less and they would Be a top seller.

 

[CZconnoisseur]

Theoretically this shouldn't pose too much of a problem to the Deus software ( I say this in ignorance, of course!) - I posted the idea to the "wishlist" section...hopefully it will be considered, and who knows; implemented in a future software update!

I know many detectorists - if not the majority of them - are older folks (over 50) and the occurrence of hearing loss increases with age even if noise exposure is NOT a factor. Most people lose the higher freqs first, such as 4K - 8K, and the process is so slow it often goes unnoticed for years. I like the fact that XP kept their highest tone to 1000Hz, where Minelab with their ETrac uses approx 1200-1500hz tones for the highest conductors - those flutey tones that the Minelab owners love to hear!!!

There is a large group of people (millions) who have a BIG separation between their 1000 Hz thresholds vs 2000 Hz thresholds, any many audiologists and dispensers don't even bother testing 1500 Hz.

 

[Henrikras]

This product could Be used to them with wired Headphones, allso with out inline Volume pot. Link http://www.tvps.com/Products/Koss-EQ50-Headset-Equilizer---New__KO-EQ50.aspx