Battery information for the Sovereign and Excalibur.
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Sovereign and Excal battery information 101
- Thread starter Ron from Michigan
- Start date
Critterhunter
New member
Here's my bit...The wall "charger" on the Sovereign is not really a charger but rather just a DC transformer. The actual charging circuit for the GT is inside the rechargeable pack behind the charging plug. For that reason, if you decide to charge the GT's battery pack with an aftermarket charger for faster charging times, you have to hook it up via alligator clips to the two main battery leads that make contact with the GT when the pack is installed on the control box. I can't remember which terminal is the positive or the negative, but many aftermarket chargers will tell you if the polarity has been reversed and to correct it. Another way to tell is via a volt meter that will show negative (-) voltage if the polarity is reversed.
If you do decide to use an aftermarket charger for the GT, make sure not to charge the pack too fast. The GT's pack says either 1000 or 1100ma (can't remember but it's on the pack). The fastest I would push charging the pack is at 1C, meaning 1 amp if it's a 1000ma pack, or 1.1 amp if it's 1100ma. Charging at 1C, a completely dead pack will take roughly an hour to charge. In reality the charging process is not very efficient, so usually a completely dead pack will take a bit longer than that.
The advantage of using a good aftermarket charger, besides being able to charge faster, is that many will clearly say that the pack is charged when done. Since I haven't used the stock pack or charger in a long time (I prefer using a 3 cell lipo for lighter weight in the 8AA holder), I'll let others tell you how the light on the pack should act when charging is complete. I forget...It either goes out or it gets dimmer when the charge is complete. I think it just gets dimmer. Another perk of a good aftermarket charger is it will tell you how much capacity has been put back into the pack so you can monitor the battery's health over time.
Now, for the stock wall transformer, look at the output it says on it. I think it's either 50ma or 100ma from memory. If the pack is 1000ma then divide that by the output current of the wall transformer. 50ma into 1000ma would mean 20 hours roughly to charge a completely dead pack.
For a good aftermarket charger I recommend the Accucel 6 from Hobby City at only about $20. But, make sure you are willing to read online about using this charger because there are many settings to set up and use. It will charge many battery types but is not intended for the novice who just wants to plug in a battery and have the charger do the rest. It is a computerized charger with many settings and the ability to save them for various packs and battery types. It also requires a 12V power source to power it, which means you have to buy one of their 12V inverters for around $10 or so or hook it up to a car battery or something to power it. It's a very popular charger in the RC electric plane world for it's adjustments and cheap price, but again NOT for the novice who doesn't know anything about battery charging.
My biggest advice when considering an aftermarket charger is do not charge any pack faster than 1C or it could very well shorten it's life. If a pack is getting hot during charging you are slowly killing it. I even recommend you charge at a slower rate than 1C whenever possible. It's needless to charge as slow as the stock "charger" does though. I recommend 1/2C (500ma for a 1000ma pack), which will take about 2 hours, but even a slower rate is good too.
One tip I will give you guys about storing your battery packs for the GT. Put them in a plastic bag. Even the regular 8AA holder when batteries are in it. If those two main battery leads were to short out on some metal without you knowing it and leaving it sit that way, you could easily have a fire on your hands.
From memory I think the Sovereign drains roughly 50ma per hour, so roughly it gets about 20 hours on say a 1000ma pack. If the wall transformer says 50ma then figure about the same amount of time to charge the pack as it was drained during use. Obviously if the wall transformer says 100ma then figure about half the time you were hunting it will take to charge the pack full again. That's just a rough rule of thumb, as charging often takes an hour to three or so longer than the math says because the charging process is not very efficient.
If you have a pack that no longer holds a charge well or won't take one, here's the way I've recovered nimh or nicad packs in the past. Hook it up to a aftermarket charger and blast charge it at say 1C (1 hour charge). This will break down crystals of resistance that can form in the pack that the normal slow charging process doesn't get rid of. In fact, many cheap chargers that come with detectors or such won't even charge a pack that is this way, while a good aftermarket charger will force it to take a charge. Some guys will even blast charge at say 2 or 3 times C to insure the crystals are broken down good. I do NOT recommend doing that because you could easily have the pack explode or catch on fire. If anything, if I risk doing that high of a charge rate to break down any crystals I only do it for a couple of minutes and then stop, because you are asking for trouble IMO at that fast of a charging rate.
After charged then hook a car tail light bulb to the pack to drain it. After the light goes out let it sit hooked up to the bulb for another 30 minutes or so. This will insure all cells are at equal discharge. Re-charge the pack again at 1C. Repeat the process 3 to 5 times or so. Now charge the pack a bit slower, 1/2 C or even use the stock even slower charger to charge it. Chances are that now the pack will have good capacity again, or at least increased capacity, and will work well again. I like to do this charge/discharge exercise 2 or 3 times to my nimh or nicad packs about once or twice a year to exercises them as it increases their capacity.
If you do decide to use an aftermarket charger for the GT, make sure not to charge the pack too fast. The GT's pack says either 1000 or 1100ma (can't remember but it's on the pack). The fastest I would push charging the pack is at 1C, meaning 1 amp if it's a 1000ma pack, or 1.1 amp if it's 1100ma. Charging at 1C, a completely dead pack will take roughly an hour to charge. In reality the charging process is not very efficient, so usually a completely dead pack will take a bit longer than that.
The advantage of using a good aftermarket charger, besides being able to charge faster, is that many will clearly say that the pack is charged when done. Since I haven't used the stock pack or charger in a long time (I prefer using a 3 cell lipo for lighter weight in the 8AA holder), I'll let others tell you how the light on the pack should act when charging is complete. I forget...It either goes out or it gets dimmer when the charge is complete. I think it just gets dimmer. Another perk of a good aftermarket charger is it will tell you how much capacity has been put back into the pack so you can monitor the battery's health over time.
Now, for the stock wall transformer, look at the output it says on it. I think it's either 50ma or 100ma from memory. If the pack is 1000ma then divide that by the output current of the wall transformer. 50ma into 1000ma would mean 20 hours roughly to charge a completely dead pack.
For a good aftermarket charger I recommend the Accucel 6 from Hobby City at only about $20. But, make sure you are willing to read online about using this charger because there are many settings to set up and use. It will charge many battery types but is not intended for the novice who just wants to plug in a battery and have the charger do the rest. It is a computerized charger with many settings and the ability to save them for various packs and battery types. It also requires a 12V power source to power it, which means you have to buy one of their 12V inverters for around $10 or so or hook it up to a car battery or something to power it. It's a very popular charger in the RC electric plane world for it's adjustments and cheap price, but again NOT for the novice who doesn't know anything about battery charging.
My biggest advice when considering an aftermarket charger is do not charge any pack faster than 1C or it could very well shorten it's life. If a pack is getting hot during charging you are slowly killing it. I even recommend you charge at a slower rate than 1C whenever possible. It's needless to charge as slow as the stock "charger" does though. I recommend 1/2C (500ma for a 1000ma pack), which will take about 2 hours, but even a slower rate is good too.
One tip I will give you guys about storing your battery packs for the GT. Put them in a plastic bag. Even the regular 8AA holder when batteries are in it. If those two main battery leads were to short out on some metal without you knowing it and leaving it sit that way, you could easily have a fire on your hands.
From memory I think the Sovereign drains roughly 50ma per hour, so roughly it gets about 20 hours on say a 1000ma pack. If the wall transformer says 50ma then figure about the same amount of time to charge the pack as it was drained during use. Obviously if the wall transformer says 100ma then figure about half the time you were hunting it will take to charge the pack full again. That's just a rough rule of thumb, as charging often takes an hour to three or so longer than the math says because the charging process is not very efficient.
If you have a pack that no longer holds a charge well or won't take one, here's the way I've recovered nimh or nicad packs in the past. Hook it up to a aftermarket charger and blast charge it at say 1C (1 hour charge). This will break down crystals of resistance that can form in the pack that the normal slow charging process doesn't get rid of. In fact, many cheap chargers that come with detectors or such won't even charge a pack that is this way, while a good aftermarket charger will force it to take a charge. Some guys will even blast charge at say 2 or 3 times C to insure the crystals are broken down good. I do NOT recommend doing that because you could easily have the pack explode or catch on fire. If anything, if I risk doing that high of a charge rate to break down any crystals I only do it for a couple of minutes and then stop, because you are asking for trouble IMO at that fast of a charging rate.
After charged then hook a car tail light bulb to the pack to drain it. After the light goes out let it sit hooked up to the bulb for another 30 minutes or so. This will insure all cells are at equal discharge. Re-charge the pack again at 1C. Repeat the process 3 to 5 times or so. Now charge the pack a bit slower, 1/2 C or even use the stock even slower charger to charge it. Chances are that now the pack will have good capacity again, or at least increased capacity, and will work well again. I like to do this charge/discharge exercise 2 or 3 times to my nimh or nicad packs about once or twice a year to exercises them as it increases their capacity.
Critterhunter
New member
Somebody will correct me if I'm wrong but as far as I know the Sovereign and Excal "chargers" don't shut off the current when the pack is charged. They might on the GT or Elite with the primative charging circuit found inside the pack, but I'm pretty sure older Sovereigns and the Excals don't have any circuit between the wall transformer and the battery? Either way, I wouldn't trust the GT and Elite's circuit inside the pack to be shutting down the current either myself.
The wall transformer is putting out so little current that it's actually refered to as a trickle charge in the battery industry. Here's the thing...When a NICAD pack is fully charged it does not hurt them to be constantly sitting on a trickle charge (so long as it's a very low current, thus called a trickle charge) while waiting to be used. However, what I've read on NIMH technology is that NIMHS should never be put on a trickle charge after they are fully charged as it will slowly destroy the battery. For that reason, many chargers out there that can do nimhs or nicads both have the option to turn on or off the trickle charge after the main charge is complete. In other words, the pack is charged at 1C for roughly a 1 hour charge, and then after that the charger will step down to a trickle charge rate of say 50ma or so. This is often refered to as a maintenance charge rate, meaning maintaining the battery at peak charge so that it's ready for action and has not been self discharging for weeks sitting on a shelf.
So, either way, I'm just warning you guys using at least the nimh packs. I wouldn't leave it on the stock charger in case the charging circuit in the Elite or GT isn't shutting off, but rather maintaning the constantly current put out by the wall transformer. That would be bad for a nimh pack from all I've read if it sits on that for days on end. For the Excal or say older Sovereigns, far as I know (?) there is no charging circuit between the wall transformer and the pack, so if you are using a nimh pack then I'd take it off when you think it's done. How to know? One way is to hook a volt meter up to the pack while it's charging. Write the voltage down and come back an hour later. Is the voltage any higher? Then it's still charging. Write it down and come back later. If the voltage is the same or has dropped after say an hour to two then the pack has reached it's peak, because when a nimh or nicad is fully charged the voltage actually drops a bit and then stops and stays at that. That's how a charger sees the pack is done charging and is called the m/v threshold setting on chargers that allow you to set the level of that for how much drop they want to see to stop charging. Normal charging will have dips and rises in voltage, so that setting has to be high enough to not false terminate from that, but not so high that the charger never sees the pack peak.
The other way to know when the pack is done is just to do the math....Capacity of the pack divided by the output current of the wall transformer. If the wall transformer says 100ma then a 1000ma pack would take 10 hours to charge if completely dead or so. Obviously after 10 hours you can be pretty darn sure the pack is charged. Or, if you use the Sovereign or Excal for 10 hours, figure it's amp draw is roughly around 50ma, so then you've taken about 500ma of capacity out of the battery. So if the wall transformer says it puts out 100ma (it's either that or 50 but I'm pretty sure it's 100ma output), then it would mean about 5 hours to put the capacity back into the pack that was taken out during the 10 hours of hunting.
I'll leave others to fill in more blanks on the stock chargers as I've said more than enough and don't want to mob the sticky more than I already have. Somebody should stick up a few links to places that will re-build battery packs for people who have a bad pack. Sorry again for the length of my two posts, but at least that should kill some future questions.
The wall transformer is putting out so little current that it's actually refered to as a trickle charge in the battery industry. Here's the thing...When a NICAD pack is fully charged it does not hurt them to be constantly sitting on a trickle charge (so long as it's a very low current, thus called a trickle charge) while waiting to be used. However, what I've read on NIMH technology is that NIMHS should never be put on a trickle charge after they are fully charged as it will slowly destroy the battery. For that reason, many chargers out there that can do nimhs or nicads both have the option to turn on or off the trickle charge after the main charge is complete. In other words, the pack is charged at 1C for roughly a 1 hour charge, and then after that the charger will step down to a trickle charge rate of say 50ma or so. This is often refered to as a maintenance charge rate, meaning maintaining the battery at peak charge so that it's ready for action and has not been self discharging for weeks sitting on a shelf.
So, either way, I'm just warning you guys using at least the nimh packs. I wouldn't leave it on the stock charger in case the charging circuit in the Elite or GT isn't shutting off, but rather maintaning the constantly current put out by the wall transformer. That would be bad for a nimh pack from all I've read if it sits on that for days on end. For the Excal or say older Sovereigns, far as I know (?) there is no charging circuit between the wall transformer and the pack, so if you are using a nimh pack then I'd take it off when you think it's done. How to know? One way is to hook a volt meter up to the pack while it's charging. Write the voltage down and come back an hour later. Is the voltage any higher? Then it's still charging. Write it down and come back later. If the voltage is the same or has dropped after say an hour to two then the pack has reached it's peak, because when a nimh or nicad is fully charged the voltage actually drops a bit and then stops and stays at that. That's how a charger sees the pack is done charging and is called the m/v threshold setting on chargers that allow you to set the level of that for how much drop they want to see to stop charging. Normal charging will have dips and rises in voltage, so that setting has to be high enough to not false terminate from that, but not so high that the charger never sees the pack peak.
The other way to know when the pack is done is just to do the math....Capacity of the pack divided by the output current of the wall transformer. If the wall transformer says 100ma then a 1000ma pack would take 10 hours to charge if completely dead or so. Obviously after 10 hours you can be pretty darn sure the pack is charged. Or, if you use the Sovereign or Excal for 10 hours, figure it's amp draw is roughly around 50ma, so then you've taken about 500ma of capacity out of the battery. So if the wall transformer says it puts out 100ma (it's either that or 50 but I'm pretty sure it's 100ma output), then it would mean about 5 hours to put the capacity back into the pack that was taken out during the 10 hours of hunting.
I'll leave others to fill in more blanks on the stock chargers as I've said more than enough and don't want to mob the sticky more than I already have. Somebody should stick up a few links to places that will re-build battery packs for people who have a bad pack. Sorry again for the length of my two posts, but at least that should kill some future questions.
There is so much to learn from Experience with some of these different charging ideas an d some will ruin your batteries from what I have seen. The factory charger for the Explorer and the GT do put out more than the older Sovereigns charger did, but that has a lot to do with them using Nickle metal hydride's batteries and larger capacity batteries. The stock charger work good for charging the batteries up, but take a little longer to do this and feel Minelab done this for a reason so you get max out of your batteries. Too high of a charge will get your batteries hot and the 1 amp will cook them and I know your life of the battery will be shortened quite a bit. The charger I like is one of the old Sun Ray SR12 chargers and think the highest charge rate is around 350 uA as it takes a little while longer, but when fully charged it goes into a pulse trickle charge. Also what is nice is you can discharge the battery to a safe level and then it will automatically charge it to the correct voltage and go to trickle charge. Been using this battery charger since 1997 and never ruin a battery yet and many are still running in the older Sovereigns. Now I tried a charger many said was so good that would charge the whole pack at once, but it ruined many batteries and even blew up a 9 volt battery on it as it just charged too high for the battery. That charger that Critter mentioned I have also and did ruin a couple of batteries with it as i didn't get a owners manual with it and didn't know how to set it up correctly, will agree it is a good charger, but not one for those that just want to plug in a charge and do know anything over 500 uA will charge fast and make the pack hot.
I also tried several that charges each battery separate and the one I have will charge 8 batteries separate and as they are fully charged they will quite charging until all are charged, but feel it charges too fast of uA as the batteries get hot and notice some are getting bad before they should.
Don't know how much my solar lights charge but the same batteries I use in my detectors are in it and been running over 3 years straight and believe they are a low charge rate and work as good as new, those I do on my single charger I notice after about 10 charges at the higher rate will not last that long, so as you see I am not for the higher charge rate unless the battery is made for it.
Rick
I also tried several that charges each battery separate and the one I have will charge 8 batteries separate and as they are fully charged they will quite charging until all are charged, but feel it charges too fast of uA as the batteries get hot and notice some are getting bad before they should.
Don't know how much my solar lights charge but the same batteries I use in my detectors are in it and been running over 3 years straight and believe they are a low charge rate and work as good as new, those I do on my single charger I notice after about 10 charges at the higher rate will not last that long, so as you see I am not for the higher charge rate unless the battery is made for it.
Rick
Critterhunter
New member
Rick, higher charge rates are harder and harder on a battery of course, but the general line to cross in that respect is about 1C (1 hour charge). That said, I usually won't charge a pack that fast, but I have charged the stock GT pack at that rate and it never got hot. There are some Excal guys I've seen using an Ebay charger sold for it that I think charges even faster than 1C. It's a plug in and charge charger with no settings that I remember. Now, I don't recommend charging faster than 1C as for sure the pack might get hot and that destroys a battery over time. I tend to push my packs no faster than about 1/2C if I'm in a hurry but not too big of a hurry, or 1C when I am here and there. But, yes, in general the slower the better. But, at the rate of the Minelab wall transformer there is no need to go that slow at 50 or 100ma. It's not so much about that slow of a rate treating the battery less harsh than say 300 to 500ma would, but more to do with the limits of cheap wall transformers like that IMO. They are very limited in output current, and as we know Minelab is trying to save a dime where they can. Otherwise why put Sub A heavy nimh cells in the rechargeable pack? Those style cells are ancient technology, and the 1000ma capacity (or is it 1100ma?) is very low compared to modern nimhs.
Regardless, opinions vary so take your choice. The only thing I'll say for sure is that if I was using the stock charger I would NOT trust leaving a nimh on it for endless hours. If it isn't cutting off that slow trickle charge rate it will destroy a nimh over time. Not sure if it is cutting off at peak on the Elite or GT, but I think (?) the old Sovereign packs had no such charge circuit between them and the transformer, and I'm pretty sure the Excalibur's are the same. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I wouldn't worry so much about older Nicad packs, but if you put Nimhs in it or buy one of the newer nimh packs made for Excals or older Sovereigns that are floating around out there, I wouldn't leave them on the stock transformer for days on end. Divide the capacity of the pack by the output current of the transformer and then limit it at least to that many hours max, or perhaps a few more hours if the pack was dead as the actual charge takes longer than what the math says.
I do know the Excals have a thermistor in the stock packs if I remember right. If that's the case, you are limited by the charging rate due to the thermistor popping from too much heat, but when it cools down it will re-make the connection. I remember Kered saying he could push the charge rate of the Excal packs to a certain amp rate and beyond that the thermistor would pop. There is no difference in the transformers being used to charge the Excal nimh or older nicad packs as far as I know since it's just a transformer. With chargers, though, never mix nimhs with nicad chargers or vise versa, as the charger won't see a nimh has peaked since nicads drop more in voltage when done. So, if somebody out there re-builds a pack using the stock Sovereign or Elite pack, or any other pack for that matter that does have a charging circuit, make sure you use the same cell chemistry of nimh or nicad. Using higher capacity packs is fine (they'll just take longer to charge with the stock charger). But, as said, when I think the old Sovereigns and the Excals I've never seen or heard of a charge circuit between the transformer and the battery. If there isn't, you're OK to use nimhs instead of nicads or vise versa, but don't leave that nimh on the transformer for hours and hours after you think it's charged.
My point is that I think the aftermarket new Excal packs sold are all nimhs these days, so *if* the Excal only has a wall transformer and no charging circuit on the pack (I don't think they do) then make sure you are aware that nimhs do not like being trickle charged after the pack has peaked while nicads are OK with it. And, also, as said, never replace nicads with nimhs or vise versa if there is a charging circuit involved other than the simple wall transformer. For instance, don't put nicads in the stock GT rechargeable because the charging circuit is meant for nimhs. That said, I don't even think (?) the charging circuit in the GT shuts off after the pack has peaked but am not positive. I glanced at that circuit once and I think it's just a thermistor in there with a diode in case the pack gets too hot and doesn't really do anything else but am not sure as I didn't take a close look. I just know you can't charge it through that port using an aftermarket charger as it won't be able to read the voltage level due to the diode at least, so you have to use the main battery clips.
The Accucel 6 charger isn't super hard to use with a little reading and understanding. There is a manual for it on the website to print out, and numerous threads on RC groups .com to more clearly understand the settings. I also wrote a lot of extensive details on set up here in this forum, but I'll not re-post that info. Anybody can search and find the numerous threads on it, as well as further battery charging info, as well as Kered's info on charging Excal and other packs with it too. But, like you said, this charger is not for the novice. Most people would be MUCH better off buying a plug and charge simple charger. Just make sure it isn't charging any faster than 1C, and I'd rather be able to set it at 1/2C or less for most charges myself.
Regardless, opinions vary so take your choice. The only thing I'll say for sure is that if I was using the stock charger I would NOT trust leaving a nimh on it for endless hours. If it isn't cutting off that slow trickle charge rate it will destroy a nimh over time. Not sure if it is cutting off at peak on the Elite or GT, but I think (?) the old Sovereign packs had no such charge circuit between them and the transformer, and I'm pretty sure the Excalibur's are the same. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I wouldn't worry so much about older Nicad packs, but if you put Nimhs in it or buy one of the newer nimh packs made for Excals or older Sovereigns that are floating around out there, I wouldn't leave them on the stock transformer for days on end. Divide the capacity of the pack by the output current of the transformer and then limit it at least to that many hours max, or perhaps a few more hours if the pack was dead as the actual charge takes longer than what the math says.
I do know the Excals have a thermistor in the stock packs if I remember right. If that's the case, you are limited by the charging rate due to the thermistor popping from too much heat, but when it cools down it will re-make the connection. I remember Kered saying he could push the charge rate of the Excal packs to a certain amp rate and beyond that the thermistor would pop. There is no difference in the transformers being used to charge the Excal nimh or older nicad packs as far as I know since it's just a transformer. With chargers, though, never mix nimhs with nicad chargers or vise versa, as the charger won't see a nimh has peaked since nicads drop more in voltage when done. So, if somebody out there re-builds a pack using the stock Sovereign or Elite pack, or any other pack for that matter that does have a charging circuit, make sure you use the same cell chemistry of nimh or nicad. Using higher capacity packs is fine (they'll just take longer to charge with the stock charger). But, as said, when I think the old Sovereigns and the Excals I've never seen or heard of a charge circuit between the transformer and the battery. If there isn't, you're OK to use nimhs instead of nicads or vise versa, but don't leave that nimh on the transformer for hours and hours after you think it's charged.
My point is that I think the aftermarket new Excal packs sold are all nimhs these days, so *if* the Excal only has a wall transformer and no charging circuit on the pack (I don't think they do) then make sure you are aware that nimhs do not like being trickle charged after the pack has peaked while nicads are OK with it. And, also, as said, never replace nicads with nimhs or vise versa if there is a charging circuit involved other than the simple wall transformer. For instance, don't put nicads in the stock GT rechargeable because the charging circuit is meant for nimhs. That said, I don't even think (?) the charging circuit in the GT shuts off after the pack has peaked but am not positive. I glanced at that circuit once and I think it's just a thermistor in there with a diode in case the pack gets too hot and doesn't really do anything else but am not sure as I didn't take a close look. I just know you can't charge it through that port using an aftermarket charger as it won't be able to read the voltage level due to the diode at least, so you have to use the main battery clips.
The Accucel 6 charger isn't super hard to use with a little reading and understanding. There is a manual for it on the website to print out, and numerous threads on RC groups .com to more clearly understand the settings. I also wrote a lot of extensive details on set up here in this forum, but I'll not re-post that info. Anybody can search and find the numerous threads on it, as well as further battery charging info, as well as Kered's info on charging Excal and other packs with it too. But, like you said, this charger is not for the novice. Most people would be MUCH better off buying a plug and charge simple charger. Just make sure it isn't charging any faster than 1C, and I'd rather be able to set it at 1/2C or less for most charges myself.
Critterhunter
New member
Here's a thread I wrote a while back about battery charging, as well as details about how to charge the stock GT charger with the Accucel 6 or other chargers. I think Kered also says in this thread how he charges his Excal and other packs...
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1427996,page=1
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1427996,page=1
deepdiger60
New member
What Minelab needs to do is improve the wall charger for the GT iam on my 3rd one now in the last 3 years what happened to the first 2 is they over heated and burned out they get really hot after a few hours thankfully my battery pack,s are ok , so far the new one is staying much cooler on a over night charge only thing i do not like about the new one is after i unplug it from the wall the red light stays lite for a while then it goes out . Good thing i did not have to pay for the replacements . Look at the photo see where it is made ? that is the problem no quality control over there . Jim
Critterhunter
New member
The above prior link goes into specific details on setting up the proper paramaters for various given battery examples (capacity/type) using a specific charger, but contains helpful charge rate info for given pack sizes that should be helpful using other chargers as well. It's designed to walk a complete newbie through battery charging technology.
I've put together a bunch of links that I feel would be useful to this thread's content. My contribution is a more broader knowledge of various battery types and chargers, but in terms of charging Minelab packs I stick to the GT for the stock pack or lipos when explaining charging those via aftermarket chargers in terms of details. Kered has experience with particulars of the Sovereign XS, Etrac, and Excalibur packs when using aftermarket chargers to charge them, so I linked to his posts on that content as well for further details. You'll also find various other info in these links, such as Excalibur pod rebuilding, where to buy aftermarket higher capacity packs for it and the various Sovereign models, and so on...
This super long thread also has other info spread through it on various Sovereign (XS, GT, etc), Etrac, and Excal charging and pack info. This thread is beyond in depth but I guarantee you if you read it all not only will your head hurt, but you
I've put together a bunch of links that I feel would be useful to this thread's content. My contribution is a more broader knowledge of various battery types and chargers, but in terms of charging Minelab packs I stick to the GT for the stock pack or lipos when explaining charging those via aftermarket chargers in terms of details. Kered has experience with particulars of the Sovereign XS, Etrac, and Excalibur packs when using aftermarket chargers to charge them, so I linked to his posts on that content as well for further details. You'll also find various other info in these links, such as Excalibur pod rebuilding, where to buy aftermarket higher capacity packs for it and the various Sovereign models, and so on...
This super long thread also has other info spread through it on various Sovereign (XS, GT, etc), Etrac, and Excal charging and pack info. This thread is beyond in depth but I guarantee you if you read it all not only will your head hurt, but you
I bought a fast charger setup from a fellow here on the forums. I hope I didn't break a rule. And I have excals stock charger. The one I bought needs repair. So I use the stock one. 1 for 1 on use vs charge. I used my machine today for 5 hours, I will zap for 5 hours.
I only ran my battery dead once. It was a bummer. 45 minute ride wasted. When in doubt...give it a zap. I also have an inverter for my car charger. So...on the way to my hunt...I zap it.
h an gl.
I only ran my battery dead once. It was a bummer. 45 minute ride wasted. When in doubt...give it a zap. I also have an inverter for my car charger. So...on the way to my hunt...I zap it.
h an gl.
Finderskeeper
Active member
I've owned several Excaliburs and have changed the batteries to the higher after market MAH battery packs on every one of them.
In the years I've had them, never have I had a problem charging the new batteries with the factory wall charger. Not sure why anyone would have a problem as my experience has been that it is not one at all.
When I hunt in the water in Florida, I'm hunting 8 to 10 hours at a time and never once have I run out of juice with the after market packs. I've gone 4 years now on one of the packs and it still holds a charge well. Far better than the factory battery packs.
I've cut open the wrappings on the factory packs and have not noticed any thermistor on any of the ones I've opened up. They are just 10- 1.2 volt cells soldered together.
Maybe on the older Excal's they might have had that. Not sure.
In the years I've had them, never have I had a problem charging the new batteries with the factory wall charger. Not sure why anyone would have a problem as my experience has been that it is not one at all.
When I hunt in the water in Florida, I'm hunting 8 to 10 hours at a time and never once have I run out of juice with the after market packs. I've gone 4 years now on one of the packs and it still holds a charge well. Far better than the factory battery packs.
I've cut open the wrappings on the factory packs and have not noticed any thermistor on any of the ones I've opened up. They are just 10- 1.2 volt cells soldered together.
Maybe on the older Excal's they might have had that. Not sure.
Critterhunter
New member
With the stock charger if using larger capacity aftermarket packs do the math. Look at the amp output of the wall transformer. Divide that into the capacity of the pack. That's how long it will take to charge a completely dead pack. Figure about 50 milliamps drain when using the Excal or Sovereign, so you can then do the math by multiplying that by the number of hours hunted and then know how much capacity has been drained out of the pack. Do the math again by dividing the transformer's output into the capacity drained and you'll know how long to charge it back to full. I'd overshoot that number by maybe an hour or so as charging isn't very efficient so it usually takes more time than the math says.
Got to go get read for work! They told me to start late today so no I'm not fired (yet).
Got to go get read for work! They told me to start late today so no I'm not fired (yet).
ok now that you guys have me all screwed up about batteries i still want an extra battery for my sov xs, so the original is 12v 600mahr or more but its the connector thats is messing me up, on the battery pack itself its a round plug in but i have no idea if its a pos center or neg center and if i get a bigger battery like say 1200mahr does that mean more run tim and aslo if the connection is the same as the original can i still use the original charger, damn i am confused, lol,maybe i should have tried drinking before i read all of this, so i am thinking critterhunter will have all that answers i need, im going to bed and when i wake up maybe rons meter will be here,hope so but doubt it, larry
Critterhunter
New member
I don't have that pack for that Sovereign to check but an easy way to tell if the center is positive or negative is to touch it and the outter part with a volt meter. Most volt meters will give a negative number if the polarity is reversed, then then swap the leads again and see if the volt meter says "- whatever volts". If it does then obviously the reverse of that is the right polarity for the plug, but not all meters will show a negative number so you need to try it both ways and make sure the meter will. If you don't have a meter to check with take it up to radio shack and I'm sure the clerk will be happy to check, or Ron or somebody will check and chime in with the right answer.
Yes, you can use a bigger capacity battery (so long as it's the same number of cells, meaning voltage) and that will give you more run time. And yes, you can use the stock "charger" *IF* there is no circuit inside that old battery pack. I don't know what kind of setup the XS had as far as if it was just a straight plug with no electronics on the pack or what. Either way, if there isn't any then all that wall "charger" is is a straight transformer. Look on the transformer and see how much output it has in amps. Probably either 50 or 100ma. Divide that into the capacity of the pack and that will give you aprox charge times. For instance, if it was 100ma output and you used a 1200ma pack it would take 12 hours to charge a dead pack roughly. In reality though charge times are a bit longer than the math says because charging is not very efficient. The Sovereign drains roughly 50ma if I remember right. So if you hunt for 10 hours figure about 500ma was drained from the pack. Divide the output of the transformer into that and you'll have an idea of how long to charge it up again for full capacity.
Now, these wall transformers are just putting out a trickle charge. That's why it's OK to mix or match nimhs or nicads on them as long as there is no charge circuit in the pack. I think even on the GT though that that charge circuit is just a diode and a thirmister to break the connection if it gets hot, or at least on older Sovereigns I think that was what they might have used. Don't take my word for it though. I'll let Ron or somebody who has owned that XS model tell you what if any circuit is in the stock packs and such. Just saying that if a battery contains a charging circuit other than just a simple thermister to break the connection if it gets too hot then don't mess with mixing nimhs and nicads. Just like on chargers...Never charge nimhs or nicads on a chargeer meant for one or the other. But that wall "charger" is just a transformer that puts out a trickle charge, so if there isn't a charge circuit and it's just a thermister or something you should be fine to use a nimh in place of the old nicad pack. Again, I'm just guessing because I never used an XS so don't take my word for it and let somebody else give you the straight right answers for sure on that.
Yes, you can use a bigger capacity battery (so long as it's the same number of cells, meaning voltage) and that will give you more run time. And yes, you can use the stock "charger" *IF* there is no circuit inside that old battery pack. I don't know what kind of setup the XS had as far as if it was just a straight plug with no electronics on the pack or what. Either way, if there isn't any then all that wall "charger" is is a straight transformer. Look on the transformer and see how much output it has in amps. Probably either 50 or 100ma. Divide that into the capacity of the pack and that will give you aprox charge times. For instance, if it was 100ma output and you used a 1200ma pack it would take 12 hours to charge a dead pack roughly. In reality though charge times are a bit longer than the math says because charging is not very efficient. The Sovereign drains roughly 50ma if I remember right. So if you hunt for 10 hours figure about 500ma was drained from the pack. Divide the output of the transformer into that and you'll have an idea of how long to charge it up again for full capacity.
Now, these wall transformers are just putting out a trickle charge. That's why it's OK to mix or match nimhs or nicads on them as long as there is no charge circuit in the pack. I think even on the GT though that that charge circuit is just a diode and a thirmister to break the connection if it gets hot, or at least on older Sovereigns I think that was what they might have used. Don't take my word for it though. I'll let Ron or somebody who has owned that XS model tell you what if any circuit is in the stock packs and such. Just saying that if a battery contains a charging circuit other than just a simple thermister to break the connection if it gets too hot then don't mess with mixing nimhs and nicads. Just like on chargers...Never charge nimhs or nicads on a chargeer meant for one or the other. But that wall "charger" is just a transformer that puts out a trickle charge, so if there isn't a charge circuit and it's just a thermister or something you should be fine to use a nimh in place of the old nicad pack. Again, I'm just guessing because I never used an XS so don't take my word for it and let somebody else give you the straight right answers for sure on that.
Critterhunter
New member
You can find it on fleabay...
Critterhunter
New member
I believe this one and the one above charge faster too but look up the specs for yourself. It might be that this one works with the Excal too maybe since I think they both at least use the same plug?
Critterhunter
New member
n/t
Critterhunter
New member
A car charger, a 1600 battery pack to replace your old one in the pod which doubles your run time, and a replacement ikelite battery connector...
Critterhunter
New member
By the way, stuff is available at one of Findmall's sponsors such as Indian Nation Detectors here. For one thing I know they carry car chargers...
http://www.indiannationsdetectors.com/sovereignparts.html
http://www.indiannationsdetectors.com/sovereignparts.html
Critterhunter
New member
Don't want to muck up this sticky with battery info more than I already have, so I'll just post this quick link to a thread of common myths about rechargeables degrading the performance of a detector, in which I do my best to squash those myths just one more time. They always seem to pop up in detecting circles. It seems battery technology (and knowledge of it) lags well behind in this hobby as compared to my other hobby (RC electric planes). Many in that hobby live, drink, and eat over battery chemistry and charging specifics, because in RC planes if you don't know these things well it can cost you a plane in that you don't have enough power to bring it back for a landing. Electric RC planes live and die on the power source, so it's far more important to understand the various aspects of battery care and feeding in that hobby.
Just in terms of our detecting hobby, where only recently the switch was made from nicads to nimhs (maybe not recently in the real sense of the term, but far after the switch was done in RC planes), it's still far behind that of RC airplanes, where things like lipos, A123 cells, and other such advanced battery chemistry (and chargers) has already been well established for several years, and in fact even in terms of rechargeable technology (both battery and charger), people seem to be paying much more for it in the detecting crowd, where as the same stuff is dirt cheap if you know where to look in the RC crowd...And yet all these things are unheard of in detecting circles. I myself am using a 3 cell series lipo that cost me $7 and a $20 charger I already had for RC (which will charge numerous battery types) to drop the weight drastically of my GT. As light as nimhs are, a 3 cell (12.6V) lipo is much lighter. It also has the added hassle-less advantage of not self-discharging on the shelf and providing quick 1 hour charge times without punishing the battery.
Anyway, here's just a short response to bust several myths that I saw mentioned and believed in in a thread in another detecting forum here on Findmall, including the weight of nimhs versus non-rechargeables, the effect (or I should say lack there of) of a lower voltage of nimhs or nicads on a detector's performance, and so on...
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?25,1744179
Just in terms of our detecting hobby, where only recently the switch was made from nicads to nimhs (maybe not recently in the real sense of the term, but far after the switch was done in RC planes), it's still far behind that of RC airplanes, where things like lipos, A123 cells, and other such advanced battery chemistry (and chargers) has already been well established for several years, and in fact even in terms of rechargeable technology (both battery and charger), people seem to be paying much more for it in the detecting crowd, where as the same stuff is dirt cheap if you know where to look in the RC crowd...And yet all these things are unheard of in detecting circles. I myself am using a 3 cell series lipo that cost me $7 and a $20 charger I already had for RC (which will charge numerous battery types) to drop the weight drastically of my GT. As light as nimhs are, a 3 cell (12.6V) lipo is much lighter. It also has the added hassle-less advantage of not self-discharging on the shelf and providing quick 1 hour charge times without punishing the battery.
Anyway, here's just a short response to bust several myths that I saw mentioned and believed in in a thread in another detecting forum here on Findmall, including the weight of nimhs versus non-rechargeables, the effect (or I should say lack there of) of a lower voltage of nimhs or nicads on a detector's performance, and so on...
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?25,1744179
Critterhunter
New member
This question always seems to pop up all the time. While I never ran 8AA nimhs in my GT long enough to see how long of run time they'd give before tripping the low battery alarm, Kered has and is reporting longer run times than the stock pack due to the higher capacity AA nimhs he is using in the regular battery holder than the capacity of the stock 10 cell rechargeable pack. You also save a good bit of weight that way, because those Sub-A cells in the stock GT holder are pretty darn heavy. Here's some info from Kered on his reported run times with 8 nimhs in the regular holder...
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1463144,1464088#msg-1464088
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1463144,1464088#msg-1464088