Speeding Up the Process and Listen for the Growl

[beepsilver]

Yesterday I hunted a couple of larger permission sites. I quickly found out the 4K program with full tones I was using for depth and collocated targets was taking too long for the time I had allotted--there was a lot of trash. I was coinshooting, so I needed the coins to "pop" rather than investigate each individual questionable signal. I switched over to Andy's Super Trashy program here: http://www.findmall.com/read.php?83,1927407 which really enabled me to speed up and hear the good targets over the questionable ones. I realize I probably left some keepers behind doing this; I can always go back.

Here's the program (copied from his link above here on Findmall):

FREQ: 12 kHz
DISC: 10
IRON VOL: 0 (not interested in the presence of iron)
REACTIVITY: 3 and then increased to 4 in the bad sections
SENSITIVITY: 80 (no point in overloading on the shallow trash and based on pulling a 1944 Mercury dime at 7", it was still getting the depth)
SILENCER: 2
AUDIO R: 3 (decreased from the usual 5) - did not need the amplification based on the depth targets were being recovered from
BREAK POINTS: 10, 48, 56, 72
TONES: Set to make the coin regions (49 to 56 and 73+) produce a DIG signal. I set the tones for the 10-48 and 57 to 72 at a lower value which made the coins a snap to pick out

As you can see Andy's program uses 12K, breakpoints and tones to produce a "dig" signal. I liked using the program and the tones are sweet for digging coins. I kept an adjacent, but different 4K program for bottlecap ID as well as checking for deeper, not quite so clear (potential silver) signals when his program found range limits (at this place with targets seemingly limited to 5-6 inches, my 4K program found nothing Andy's program couldn't see). Anyway, I liked using the program, but have a question for the audience. I would like to use 4K keeping all the other settings the same except tone breakpoints--how would you set tone breakpoints to avoid pushing desirable targets into the undesirable tone range?

One thing I've noticed that you have to watch out for [when using his program] is that the wiggleback method for pinpointing a DESIRABLE target will sometimes produce a growly low tone sound when you reach the edge of the target--I suppose as the coil slides and finds the edge of the target, the conductivity changes enough to push it into the undesirable tone range. Of course this is what we listen for when we want to make a dig, no-dig decision on iron. This happened to me twice (in multiple sweep directions) while using his program. Once on a medium sized gold-filled ring a couple of weeks ago and then again yesterday on the two mercs that were in the same hole. Based on what I've read, the growl made me not want to dig, but my frequency comparison-check said dig on both occasions--glad I did! Now, keep in mind, with his tone settings, the growl on a good target's edge is much cleaner than on true trash and is very easy to distinguish.

One other thing I learned using Andy's program that I want to share is...and my understanding of the technical details may be off, so correct me if I'm wrong, but with Reactivity at 3 and Silencer at 2, the coil does not "hook" (thanks for the term CZ!) the target as thoroughly as Reactivity 2/Silencer 0...this only occurs when the target has a little depth. Consequently, when you are pinpointing a target at say for example 3 or more inches using the wiggleback method (this is what I use and doubt the "X" pinpointing method is similarly affected), the top of your coil might not indicate the true edge of the target, it will stop seeing the target before the top of the coil gets to the edge of the target. This will put you in a situation that sets you up to scratch your target when you dig. If I understand my own concept correctly, then I have to assume that with greater depth, this problem will become more prevalent. Knowing this, having some idea of the target's depth will allow you to make the necessary adjustment either by dragging beyond where the sound stops, or by using a different pinpointing method.

Here are the finds from two sites. The Indians came from one site and the silver from another. Both mercs came from the same hole which was a nice surprise, and the signal in 12K and 4K both showed and sounded like a quarter. They were side-by-side. Beggars can't be choosey, but since I didn't come up with the 1877 Indian, at least the 1876 is primo conditio--you can see his eyebrow for Pete's sake!

 

[CZconnoisseur]

That's good info...and that 1876 Indian is fantabulous!

I've tried hunting in different programs at the fairgrounds where I continue to find cool and old coins, relics, and tokens. Since this site has a lot of deep iron, deep brass, etc., it's probably one of the most challenging places to hunt but the rewards for patience and persistence pay off. Ever since I got the Deus back in December, the old "Goto" location has been the fairgrounds - and I found out just yesterday that there was a Confederate camp on the north end of the site - so the possibilities just expanded a bit!!!

Still stuck on using 4 kHz for almost every site around here since the trash quotient has always been ridiculous, except for that last rental house which was a blessing! 4 kHz doesn't separate as well as the higher frequencies and takes a little longer to recover, but with full tones you get more of an audio ID than anything else. The reason why I've stuck to 4 kHz like a tapeworm is the iron rejection - there's almost no question when you pass over an iron target unless it's a large, deep mass. And then the audio still doesn't quite sound right compared to a coin at depth - at least to my ears! Sure, it depletes that batteries after only 10 hours of use, but that's no big deal IMO.

So while in 12 kHz "49-56" is nickel territory while anything over "73" in 12 kHz would be a zincoln or Indian cent on up. To set up "Andy's High Trash" in 4 kHz use "33-42" for nickels, but keep in mind that some war nickels can ID all the way up to "65" in this frequency. You may hit some pulltabs around 40-42, you may not...hard to say for sure (I hit many around these numbers)
Zincolns - We all love them right? 4 kHz hits new zincolns from "58-62" almost every time while the more corroded ones can ID as low as "49". Notch these out at your discretion, but early Wheats and Indian cents will ID from "55-72" with most of the Wheats hitting "64-70". I've seen some silver dimes ID as low as "70" in 4 kHz, all the way up to "80"...silver quarters are pretty solid at "85-87" almost every time while clad quarters are "82-85" almost every time.

Disc is OK at 10, but you can see those fringe targets a shade better if Disc is between 2.0 - 5.0 IMO. No need to "double discriminate" either.

I've NEVER set breakpoints for any program - always used full tones. If you try this out I'd love to see how it works for you! I would be willing to give it a spin at the fairgrounds once or twice...

 

[beepsilver]

Thanks for the info CZ--now I have a starting point with a 4K trash program. I've noticed in the short time with the Deus that 12K (haven't used 18K) can make a trash target sound good...I discovered this while changing freqs to check on bottlecaps. At the expense of some low conductors I still would prefer to routinely use 4K. I've been using full tones on just about every hunt but yesterday the site was getting to me, so I tested out Andy's program which I've only used once before as a "check on a target" program. Now that I've used it, I think a similar program with 4K has its place in the arsenal for similar sites. A note about tones; the primary difference between my typical 4K coinshooting programs and Andy's program is that with Andy's program it both limits the number of tones to five (obviously--and makes for easier listening) and keeps those frequent 97+ tones I experience with minimal notching and disc I get when I use my programs. Thanks again for your help and good luck at the Confederate Fairgrounds!

 

[samandnoah]

I made a mental map of the 12 k --> 4 k breakpoints, and then read CZ's message. I came up with something very close to what he suggested, though I think you'll need to play with it a bit to see what works best (and what trade-offs you're happier with). I've got a great set of data (mostly in my head! ) correlating 12 k and 4 k because I use those 2 frequencies, and switch back & forth on almost every target as a check. Just a habit I formed from checking for bottle caps.

12 kHz 4kHz
Disc/Break1 10 4 or 5 (I agree with CZ, go lower, and since you're setting your 1st break with a "bad" tone, it doesn't really matter, or use notch up to 10 if you want a little more quiet)
Break 1 48 34
Break 2 56 42 (you will definitely get some pull tabs, do might prefer 40 or 41, but risk missing some nickels. I like it because a 41-42 in 4 kHz is low 60s in 12 kHz if it's a tab! Not 50s like a nickel)
Break 3 72 56

I think that'll get you what you want. You'll definitely have to play around with it some to your liking. This is very close to what I use.

Regards,
Rich

 

[beepsilver]

Rich, that's great info! Between you and CZ I ought to be able to tweek the 4K settings just right!

 

[samandnoah]

Glad that helped. I had tried to format it so it looked like it was in columns. Didn't quite come out that way, though. Hey, I reread CZ's post, and I've dug very few Indian Heads. If he says they start at 54, my feelings won't be hurt if you take that advice instead of the 56 I suggested! My info was not meant to be "definitive", simply my best take on the equivalents based on my data. And I do use break points because I haven't been able to wrap my head/ears around full tones yet. I'll get there someday I hope.

Good luck and let us know how it works out for you.
Rich

 

[therover]

I gotta go coin shooting with my Deus.

 

[Ism]

Beautiful IH Beep!
Amazing it is so well preserved, the ones I dig are fairly burnt out. Fertilizer or acidic soil I guess.

 

[Sleepyjim]

Man that is a great IH, wish my soil was that good....


Jim

 

[beepsilver]

Man that is a great IH, wish my soil was that good....


Jim

I got lucky with this one...they're often not quite as nice. But here in my area, they never seem to be completely corroded like I see coming from some other parts of the country.

 

[beepsilver]

I used the modified Andy's Trash Program in 4K some today...both in a not-so-trashy area, and in a trashy area. My preliminary thoughts are that I like the sound of the 12K version better. I didn't use the 4K version all day, but I did quite often. The 4K version was a bit noisier and seemed to like the foil and iron bits despite disc at 6 and notching through 32. I ended up notching 43-50 and 97-99. Maybe it was my notching that led to a noisier experience...definitely more testing is in order. There was benefits to using the 4K and keeping it adjacent to the 12K--the 4K enabled me to eliminate some targets that sounded good in 12K but not in 4K. Conversely, the 4K really loves large round rusty twist-off caps the size of a baby food jar lid--more so than the 12K...but I dug them anyway hoping for a missed wheaty, indian or silver. Interesting the two lids I dug passed the freq change test.

I hunted a trashy area of a hard-hit park where I found two mercs in the sea of bottlecaps a few weeks ago...I was hoping to eke out another silver with slow swings in that area with the Trashy Programs, and while I was getting signals at 6-7 inches outside of the bottlecap range, I found no coins, just pulltabs and flat foil. I even tried reactivity at 4, then 5 in this 30 X 30 area, but no new coin signals revealed themselves. I found it a little frustrating that even with reactivity at 4 and 5 and silencer at 4, some bottlecaps still sounded pretty darn good, had unconfirmable freq change test results so they had to be dug. They were at the 5, 6 and 7 inch range, laying flat and rusty as ever. With each hole I dug in pursuit of a non-bottlecap (foil, tab, etc.), I dug two or more bottlecaps out of each hole. Eventually I might get some benefit at this place by digging the caps out, but my motivation at this area is dwindling.

The quarter, IHP and cuff link were all found switching between these two programs. The quarter was a shallow no-brainer and rang up at 86 in 4K (you'll see from my other post with these finds that I really wasn't paying attention to the VDIs in 12K--I'd get a hit in 12K, then check it in 4K and that's the number I remember--I'll try to do better next time). Both the indian and cufflink (gold plated) were not great signals in either freq. They were 4-5 inches in damp soil so they should have rang out loud and clear. There was miscellaneous foil and iron bits in the area they were found but I suspect they were both on the cusp of notching. The indian came in around mid-50s I think. I'll try to put my CZ hat on next time I hunt and repeat precisely to the exact VDI for each target found over a 6-8 hour period

I'll update as the testing with these programs continues.

 

[Sleepyjim]

Nice!


Jim

 

[samandnoah]

Nice write up, beepsilver. And some nice finds. I definitely understand your experience with the notches. I found with the "super trashy" program that the notches created a lot of noise, squelching & squirching, on targets near the notches, or targets that bounced around. in the end, I personally found that too distracting and disturbing, and don't use the notches very often. If I'm going to hear a bunch of noise and get my attention I might as well hear it all anyhow, and learn to differentiate the sounds. At least that was the conclusion I finally came to.

Good luck,
Rich

 

[Cladiator (OR)]

Unbelievable 1876! Thank you for taking the time to share all the details and your observations--very helpful. From my limited experience with this machine, I agree with Rich's comments about notches and the response to targets that are at the edges of the notches. I still have a lot to learn though, so all this is really good info for me. Thanks again and congratulations on the finds!

 

[Big Boys Hobbies]

Nice finds!