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Street side of sidewalk??

Years ago I was hunting on the street side of a sidewalk and while I was digging a lady called the police and when they showed up they told the lady that the street side was not her property, it was city property and I could continue as long as I didn't leave any holes. I was wondering if this is the case pretty much everywhere. There's a lot of busy body home owners that try to make you leave, and when I tell them the law they really don't agree and think that you are on their property.
 
in my town it is city property, I emailed the mayors office and was told the city owns that strip and I could detect. I have done a few blocks lately w/o any trouble from homeowners at all
 
You would do well to contact your city administration before you assume it's OK. The law is real "Gray" here and tends to side with the homeowner. I treat it as the homeowners property and just ask permission on a case to case basis. The only exception is the strip in front of County owned property.
 
In my home town it is considered city property, but it is maintained by each householder and many people take good care of their lawns including this strip, so I always ask first unless it's a business. Most times businesses don't care.
 
A buddy and I had a problem in Hillsdale Michigan last year. We were detecting some strips between the sidewalk and street in front of a strip of abandoned/foreclosed homes. Some busybody crackhead across the street called the cops. The officer pulled up and began lecturing us about how that may be a city easement but the owners pay taxes on it, and maintain it. He then proceeded to tell us "we'd feel the same way if we were the ones paying taxes" as if we don't pay taxes. We cut our losses for the day and headed out. I think it just depends on a city by city basis, and how uptight individuals feel like being on a particular day.
 
I don't know of any city in the USA where it's NOT city property. This is because there is utilities that usually go down that strip of land, and/or to allow for passenger unloading and loading, etc...... But ... unlike a park or school yard, obviously in this case, the homeowner maintains it, as if it was his own property.

As far as people suggesting you go to city hall and "ask", there is various problems with that:

a) the city may confirm yes, it's theirs and you can walk and detect there. However, this does not gaurantee you won't have someone yell at you, EVEN when showing them this "proof". Because, let's face it: all they have to do, is say "he was making holes" or "a mess", etc... And even though you weren't, mental images and assumptions tend to win out, in these types debates

b) or the city may say "yes we own it, but no you can't detect", simply because they interpret your question as a form of asking their permission to do a certain activity (and we all know that "no" is the easy answer). Ie.: the same answer that some people get when they waltz into city hall to see if they can detect parks, they too sometimes get a "no", when no actual prohibitions exist, and no one's ever been bothered detecting those parks (doh!). The old "no one cares, till you ask" psychology.

But the bottom line is, we are ALL unfortunately in a hobby, that draws the stares of the curious on-lookers. Let's face it. So if any of us thinks we are going to find places to hunt, and never run into busy-bodies, you've probably chosen the wrong hobby. Because you will never be able to gaurantee yourself glowing approvals and yes's, at every single spot (barring sandboxes perhaps). If you are skittish about occasional encounters with people who say "you can't do that", then this is probably not the hobby for you. Heck, I one time got a lady walking her dog down the beach, that said the detector (frequencies or something) were affecting her dog, and that therefore, this shouldn't be allowed on this beach, or some such non-sense. You see, it's bound to happen. So the answer is, to simply avoid those occasional busy-bodies, by picking more discreet times, keeping a lower profile, etc... Ie.: out of site, is out of mind.
 
Tom_in_CA said:
Great comment...You said it all.
I don't know of any city in the USA where it's NOT city property. This is because there is utilities that usually go down that strip of land, and/or to allow for passenger unloading and loading, etc...... But ... unlike a park or school yard, obviously in this case, the homeowner maintains it, as if it was his own property.

As far as people suggesting you go to city hall and "ask", there is various problems with that:

a) the city may confirm yes, it's theirs and you can walk and detect there. However, this does not gaurantee you won't have someone yell at you, EVEN when showing them this "proof". Because, let's face it: all they have to do, is say "he was making holes" or "a mess", etc... And even though you weren't, mental images and assumptions tend to win out, in these types debates

b) or the city may say "yes we own it, but no you can't detect", simply because they interpret your question as a form of asking their permission to do a certain activity (and we all know that "no" is the easy answer). Ie.: the same answer that some people get when they waltz into city hall to see if they can detect parks, they too sometimes get a "no", when no actual prohibitions exist, and no one's ever been bothered detecting those parks (doh!). The old "no one cares, till you ask" psychology.

But the bottom line is, we are ALL unfortunately in a hobby, that draws the stares of the curious on-lookers. Let's face it. So if any of us thinks we are going to find places to hunt, and never run into busy-bodies, you've probably chosen the wrong hobby. Because you will never be able to gaurantee yourself glowing approvals and yes's, at every single spot (barring sandboxes perhaps). If you are skittish about occasional encounters with people who say "you can't do that", then this is probably not the hobby for you. Heck, I one time got a lady walking her dog down the beach, that said the detector (frequencies or something) were affecting her dog, and that therefore, this shouldn't be allowed on this beach, or some such non-sense. You see, it's bound to happen. So the answer is, to simply avoid those occasional busy-bodies, by picking more discreet times, keeping a lower profile, etc... Ie.: out of site, is out of mind.
 
I take a little different approach. It is city property for sure. I won't dig in anything that is part of someones manicured lawn on the street side of the sidewalk. However I will break out my attire that helps peoples worries go away. Go get yourself one of the florescent orange vests with the reflector strips sewn in, they are not cheap.........and what every city employee is required by OSHA to wear to keep from getting ran over by a car. Keeps me from getting hit also. Wear one of the sky blue work shirts, or a white one. Looks good and you really look like you are working. No one bothers you at all period. That gets me to wondering.....mmmm....I wonder how much the orange work cones are LOL I won't go that far!
 
Terry I got mine from Academy, wish I'd went to Wally world probably. I paid I think 40.00 bucks for it. Stinking OSHA approved, my mind went to turning and I picked one up.
 
Even though it may not be against the law to metal detect in any particular city, there is almost always a law against destroying public property. It's been used in alot of places to ban metal detecting.

Every one who does not want you to detect (dig holes) on their property is not a "busy body". A lot of home owners spend a lot of time and money making their property look good. This includes the grassy strips. If you substitute "digging holes" for "metal detecting" you'll get an idea on what a lot of folks think when they see someone metal detecting. Or the home owner will believe that you are finding something valuable and since it's on their property it belongs to them not you.

Either way, the home owner is upset. He comes out not being happy about seeing his property destroyed and asks that you stop what you are doing and leave. You tell the homeowner that you are on public property and you are breaking no laws. He disagrees and calls the cops. The cops show up and tell the homeowner that you can dig holes on his property all day. This doesn't make the home owner happy. So he goes to the next city council meeting and asks the council to pass an ordinance to ban metal detecting. Or maybe he waits until his lawn mower sucks up the shallow plugs that was dug. Or maybe it hasn't rained for awhile and the plugs that were dug turns brown. In these cases he goes to the city council meeting with pictures of how his/ city property was destroyed.

You never know who these "busy bodies" are? Maybe the home owner is the mayor, or the mayor's mother, or in the bad part of town it's a crack head with a gun. I know folks who have been shot at.

I've been confronted several times in city parks by angry neighbors. I'm very polite (no matter how hard it is to do) and challenge them to find any holes that I've dug. That has always difused the situation. A little bit more polite small talk and the neighbor that was angry leaves happy,

The metal detecting comunity has made a lot enemies for various reasons, We need to work harder to make friends. Everyone that reads this forum is not a friend.The next person you disrepect may at best get an ordinance passed to ban metal detecting, or may get you locked up, or may get you hurt badly.

I've been detecting for at least 46 years. Here is an example how not doing what was lawful was the right things to do. I've made a few trips to the ghetto parks in St Louis over the years. The last time I was there I found a hot spot. Of course that was the 1st place I wanted to detect. There was a car parked on the road next to "my hot spot". Every 5 minutes or so a car would pull up behind the parked car. The driver of the new car would get out of their car, go to the parked car's driver's side door, stand there for a minute or so and leave. It happened over and over.again. I assumed the guy in the parked car was selling drugs. It was my right to hunt next to the car that drugs were being sold out of, it was a city park (public property). I didn't get within a 100 yards of that car, which in hindsight may have been a bit too close.
 
Darrell said:
Even though it may not be against the law to metal detect in any particular city, there is almost always a law against destroying public property. It's been used in alot of places to ban metal detecting.

Every one who does not want you to detect (dig holes) on their property is not a "busy body". A lot of home owners spend a lot of time and money making their property look good. This includes the grassy strips. If you substitute "digging holes" for "metal detecting" you'll get an idea on what a lot of folks think when they see someone metal detecting. Or the home owner will believe that you are finding something valuable and since it's on their property it belongs to them not you.

Either way, the home owner is upset. He comes out not being happy about seeing his property destroyed and asks that you stop what you are doing and leave. You tell the homeowner that you are on public property and you are breaking no laws. He disagrees and calls the cops. The cops show up and tell the homeowner that you can dig holes on his property all day. This doesn't make the home owner happy. So he goes to the next city council meeting and asks the council to pass an ordinance to ban metal detecting. Or maybe he waits until his lawn mower sucks up the shallow plugs that was dug. Or maybe it hasn't rained for awhile and the plugs that were dug turns brown. In these cases he goes to the city council meeting with pictures of how his/ city property was destroyed.

You never know who these "busy bodies" are? Maybe the home owner is the mayor, or the mayor's mother, or in the bad part of town it's a crack head with a gun. I know folks who have been shot at.

I've been confronted several times in city parks by angry neighbors. I'm very polite (no matter how hard it is to do) and challenge them to find any holes that I've dug. That has always difused the situation. A little bit more polite small talk and the neighbor that was angry leaves happy,

The metal detecting comunity has made a lot enemies for various reasons, We need to work harder to make friends. Everyone that reads this forum is not a friend.The next person you disrepect may at best get an ordinance passed to ban metal detecting, or may get you locked up, or may get you hurt badly.

I've been detecting for at least 46 years. Here is an example how not doing what was lawful was the right things to do. I've made a few trips to the ghetto parks in St Louis over the years. The last time I was there I found a hot spot. Of course that was the 1st place I wanted to detect. There was a car parked on the road next to "my hot spot". Every 5 minutes or so a car would pull up behind the parked car. The driver of the new car would get out of their car, go to the parked car's driver's side door, stand there for a minute or so and leave. It happened over and over.again. I assumed the guy in the parked car was selling drugs. It was my right to hunt next to the car that drugs were being sold out of, it was a city park (public property). I didn't get within a 100 yards of that car, which in hindsight may have been a bit too close.


Get off of your high horse Darrell IT IS NOT THEIR PROPERTY AND NO ONE IS TEARING IT UP..You have an attitude.
 
Darrell said:
Even though it may not be against the law to metal detect in any particular city, there is almost always a law against destroying public property. It's been used in alot of places to ban metal detecting. uh...I am not desroying property, sorry....

Every one who does not want you to detect (dig holes) on their property is not a "busy body". A lot of home owners spend a lot of time and money making their property look good. This includes the grassy strips. If you substitute "digging holes" for "metal detecting" you'll get an idea on what a lot of folks think when they see someone metal detecting. Or the home owner will believe that you are finding something valuable and since it's on their property it belongs to them not you.

Either way, the home owner is upset. ...and you know he is upset how? I have detected strips a block long without a single person coming out to talk to me
He comes out not being happy about seeing his property destroyed and asks that you stop what you are doing and leave. You tell the homeowner that you are on public property and you are breaking no laws. He disagrees and calls the cops. The cops show up and tell the homeowner that you can dig holes on his property all day. This doesn't make the home owner happy. So he goes to the next city council meeting and asks the council to pass an ordinance to ban metal detecting. Or maybe he waits until his lawn mower sucks up the shallow plugs that was dug. Or maybe it hasn't rained for awhile and the plugs that were dug turns brown. In these cases he goes to the city council meeting with pictures of how his/ city property was destroyed ...well now your ASSUMING that I or anyone else does not know how to dig plugs, you should not assume anything, or the fact that I won't detect a nice lawn or strip if it is dry out


You never know who these "busy bodies" are? Maybe the home owner is the mayor, or the mayor's mother, or in the bad part of town it's a crack head with a gun. I know folks who have been shot at. wow for detecting? do you live in Detroit?

I've been confronted several times in city parks by angry neighbors. I'm very polite (no matter how hard it is to do) and challenge them to find any holes that I've dug. That has always difused the situation. A little bit more polite small talk and the neighbor that was angry leaves happy,

The metal detecting comunity has made a lot enemies for various reasons, We need to work harder to make friends. Everyone that reads this forum is not a friend.The next person you disrepect may at best get an ordinance passed to ban metal detecting, or may get you locked up, or may get you hurt badly.

I've been detecting for at least 46 years. Here is an example how not doing what was lawful was the right things to do. I've made a few trips to the ghetto parks in St Louis over the years. The last time I was there I found a hot spot. Of course that was the 1st place I wanted to detect. There was a car parked on the road next to "my hot spot". Every 5 minutes or so a car would pull up behind the parked car. The driver of the new car would get out of their car, go to the parked car's driver's side door, stand there for a minute or so and leave. It happened over and over.again. I assumed the guy in the parked car was selling drugs. It was my right to hunt next to the car that drugs were being sold out of, it was a city park (public property). I didn't get within a 100 yards of that car, which in hindsight may have been a bit too close.
I agree your getting way too excited, if you don't want to hunt curbs then don't....but for me I asked the city and I will still hunt them, but hey thanks for your opinion.....
 
So, we are to assume that digging and replacing a plug is "destruction", but the ciy's backhoe digging up block after block to change a line is just fine. Strange world some folks are living in.
 
Darrell, I think what Herbajones and goes4ever are trying to point out, is that, in your statement are some false (or shall we say "not necessarily true") premises.

For example, you say: ".... there is almost always a law against destroying public property. ". Well yes, perhaps there is. But if you are "destroying property", then I suggest you repeat "target recovery 101 class". Later, in your position statement, you state that you don't leave a trace of your presence. Good. Then what's the problem? If you're not "destroying property", then what does that ...... as a reason for not hunting parking strips, have to do with anything? :confused: And if your point was that OTHERS may destroy property (ie.: leave holes un-filled, or make them so sloppy and shallow that they don't take root again, don't stomp them back in place, don't use catch mats, etc....), then my advice for that is that those type persons are to be corrected, NOT that you/we/I should not detect a certain place.

For example: the same statement could be made about ANYWHERE, could it not? ie.: rules against "destruction", and "someone might leave a mess", etc.... Well then, to go through with the logic, because someone else may be sloppy, we should not detect anywhere? Because I gaurantee you: if you go into ANY city hall, ANYWHERE, even for places where the park is open game, and no one's ever cared less before, and ask the desk clerk: "Hi, can I please destruct and vandalize the park please?". What do you think they're going to say? Of course they'll say "no"

So your mistake is in that you make a necessary equivalent between "destruct" and "metal detect". It needn't be the case. And if you think it IS the case (or think it's the case merely because someone else makes that knee-jerk assumption when they see you), then I suggest you've chosen the wrong hobby. Because there is no way you will ever solve all the busy-bodies who *might* think that. To me, that would be like saying "gee, I should never drive, because someone might flip me off in traffic, and because ..... afterall ... other people are bad drivers, and someone might think I'm one of those bad drivers".

I'm not saying that you/we will never get someone taking issue with us. Of course someone *might* level any accusation they want. I'm just saying that if this is what you're afraid of, then you might as well stick to sandboxes, because no matter where you/we go in this world, unless you only intend to pick up coins off top the ground only, the possibility exists that someone will gripe. To totally avoid any such confrontation, would be to simply give up the hobby, and stay in your living room (lest someone get mad, oh no!).

And when you think about it: clauses with words such as "destruction" and "vandalism" all imply the END result of an activity. Thus, if you left no trace, then by definition, you haven't "vandalized" anything, now have you? Of course, this isn't to say that someone might not accuse you of this (because they make the knee-jerk assumption d/t they saw you in the middle of recovery). But technically, if you left no trace, then you weren't in violation, and broke no law.

Now of course, I would never push this, and insist on waltzing down the street hunting parking strips, if all sorts of people were having a block party that day, on the block I chose. I mean, c'mon, we can use a little common sense here. But to say it should or never can be done, is also in error.
 
No. There is not a necessary equivalence between digging a plug, and destruction. Only if you leave a mess (ie.: have no clue as to how to be neat, cover them with no trace, etc...), have you "destructed" or "vandalized" something. If someone still makes the necessary connection between detecting and destruction, they have probably chosen the wrong hobby. Because you will never find any city, county, state, or fed, to allow you to "destruct" their property. Thus, if someone feels this is an neccesary equivalance, I wonder why they've chosen this hobby?
 
Anything you find in the strip would likely have been dropped by the homeowner or a member of his family. Would you really just walk off with it?

Kinda like hunting cemetaries, in my opinoin.

Gives the hobby a lowlife image.
 
This is one of those subjects that will most likely never get even close to a consensus.

I was the mayor of our small town for six (long) years. The strip between the sidewalk and the road is city property in 99.9% of cities. It is for utility easements. It is where city water and sewer runs to each house, and often has buried shut offs and underground meters on it.

Yes, it is usually maintained by the property owners adjacent. No, most of them do not realize it doesn't belong to them. NO, they do not pay tax on it. If it has trees the city is obligated to maintain them. I have known people that paid to have the trees trimmed, and then found out they were not even theirs.

I hunt them on occasion. My personal policy is to just be polite and explain what is what. If they are ticked off, I just move on, politely.

Most cities will not regulate detecting in that strip. Reasons are manifold, but the biggest is that city police departments do not want to have to deal with it. They have too much to do, and not enough manpower anymore. The Chief will usually give the council or administrator a song and dance about the cost of dealing with it compared to the benefit. Add that to the fact that city wide it just isn't a big enough problem even in a small town to be more than a blip on the radar.

I will tell you also that writing an ordinance to stop any activity like that is usually a pain that comes back to bite one in the rear. It never seems to work out without affecting some other legitimate activity.

Good Luck,

Mark
 
I guess I look at it a little bit differently than some of you. I have permission to hunt City and County public areas around here. However, I never hunt the area between the streets and residential sidewalks without talking to the person who lives in the adjacent property first. When I speak with them, I let them know that I've already received permission from the City. But since they are the folks who maintain the lawn, I was offering the courtesy of also getting their permission. Seldom has anyone asked me not to detect. More times than not, I've also gotten permission to hunt their entire yard. If I hadn't made the effort to speak with them first, I'd not had the opportunity to hunt those yards.

During the nearly 40 years that I've been detecting I can't begin to count the number of "public places" where we use to detect that are now considered "off limits". City Parks, school yards, Court House lawns, County Fair grounds, State Parks. The list goes on and on. And as unfortunate as it may be, most of those places have banned detectors due to a few inconsiderate detectorists leaving the area in a mess, or complaints of those who've been referred to as a "busy body". For the record, your City doesn't own that strip of grass between the sidewalk and the streets. Actually, the City doesn't own anything. The taxpayers of that jurisdiction own it. And if it came down to whether the taxpaying person who has to mow and maintain it doesn't want someone digging there, opposed to another taxpayer who wants to dig up a few coins without asking their permission, guess who will win that argument at the City Council or County Commissioner's meeting? If you don't know, read the first few sentences in this paragraph again. Doesn't make it right. But it happens somewhere every day of the week. JMHO HH Randy
 
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