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Target ID Numbers

Ant Detector

New member
First time metal detector user using the Garrett Ace 400. In my first few days I’ve been able to uncover a lot of junk around my house. But in the process I’ve been learning a lot.
My detector seems to give actuate target ID’s for most of my finds. I do however have a question about one of them. I had a solid target ID of 85 in coin mode and it said it was deep (8 inches). So I went in for the kill. After going down at least 8 inches I found a small piece of aluminum siding. So can someone explain why the target ID was 85?
 
The detector is set up for coin size targets, the smaller the target the deeper it will show it, for instance a small 22 bullet at 3" will read deeper than that, a large pop can at 10" will read a lot shallower than that.
Also when you get small targets deeper than 6" it's a whole new game on VID #s. I've learned to listen to the sound of the tones on deep targets more than VID#s.
 
First time metal detector user using the Garrett Ace 400. In my first few days I’ve been able to uncover a lot of junk around my house. But in the process I’ve been learning a lot.
My detector seems to give actuate target ID’s for most of my finds. I do however have a question about one of them. I had a solid target ID of 85 in coin mode and it said it was deep (8 inches). So I went in for the kill. After going down at least 8 inches I found a small piece of aluminum siding. So can someone explain why the target ID was 85?
'Welcome' to the Forum and 'Welcome' to the greatest outdoor sport for anyone.

► Target ID read-outs, such as the VDI numeric display, is based on a combination of many things, such as the metal object's:
• Size
• Shape
• Orientation to the search coil.
• Depth or distance from the coil and the stronger or more intense portion of the EMF.
• Conductivity.

► And we can add to that the following Detector and Coil considerations:
• Detector Used
• Search Coil Used
• Settings Used, to include Sensitivity, Discrimination, Ground Balance, and functions related to Recovery Speed, Iron handling, and so forth.
• Sweep Speed or Search Coil Presentation.
• Search Coil Type, such as Concentric or Double-D internal winding.
• Operating Frequency

► And we shouldn't ignore any outside effects we have no control over, to include:
• Mineralization Level
• Ground or Soil make-up, such as consistently uniform to a good depth or layered, and then the differences between layers.
• Undisturbed Ground for a good period, or Disturbed Ground, such as very loose material or plowed / tilled ground, etc.
• Moisture Content: Dry, Damp, Wet, and to what depth, or even Saturated ground down several inches.


Factor all these things together and I can guarantee you that there is NO detector, regardless of what a price tag it has, that will ever be 100% accurate. In reality, you will find that for 'common' or 'average' day-to-day Coin Hunting in typical parks, schools or yards, and when going after coins that are located in the upper surface to 4" depth range
(where probably 90% of them are) most detectors can run from being about 15% accurate to perhaps 85% accurate on most US coins. And I emphasize USA coins because too many foreign countries use nickel, steel or some other magnetic-based ferrous material to make their coins so they won't be as nice-and-proper consistent like an air-tested US coin.

Also, I am referring to any detector's potential 'correctness' to identify a US Coin. The problem, as related in the first set of cautions, is 'Conductivity' and there are so many pieces of objects or whole objects that are lost or discarded that share a similar 'Conductivity' to a US Coin that it becomes almost impossible for the operator and detector to agree on what is likely a good or bad target, A
VDI read-out suggests an objects Visual Discrimination Indication of what it might potentially be. Quite often, in less favorable environments, the 'VD' portion might just stand for Very Discouraging.

Best advice from me, and I've only been at it for over half-a-century, is BE PATIENT! Learn the detector, listen to the audio response, hunt as often as you can and recover as many targets as you can. When you do, relate the audio and visual experience to what was actually recovered. Results will be site-dependent, but one thing I'd discourage is trying to put full faith in any blasted Target ID display read-out. It's only a tool, not the final decision maker.

Monte
 
'Welcome' to the Forum and 'Welcome' to the greatest outdoor sport for anyone.

► Target ID read-outs, such as the VDI numeric display, is based on a combination of many things, such as the metal object's:
• Size
• Shape
• Orientation to the search coil.
• Depth or distance from the coil and the stronger or more intense portion of the EMF.
• Conductivity.

► And we can add to that the following Detector and Coil considerations:
• Detector Used
• Search Coil Used
• Settings Used, to include Sensitivity, Discrimination, Ground Balance, and functions related to Recovery Speed, Iron handling, and so forth.
• Sweep Speed or Search Coil Presentation.
• Search Coil Type, such as Concentric or Double-D internal winding.
• Operating Frequency

► And we shouldn't ignore any outside effects we have no control over, to include:
• Mineralization Level
• Ground or Soil make-up, such as consistently uniform to a good depth or layered, and then the differences between layers.
• Undisturbed Ground for a good period, or Disturbed Ground, such as very loose material or plowed / tilled ground, etc.
• Moisture Content: Dry, Damp, Wet, and to what depth, or even Saturated ground down several inches.


Factor all these things together and I can guarantee you that there is NO detector, regardless of what a price tag it has, that will ever be 100% accurate. In reality, you will find that for 'common' or 'average' day-to-day Coin Hunting in typical parks, schools or yards, and when going after coins that are located in the upper surface to 4" depth range (where probably 90% of them are) most detectors can run from being about 15% accurate to perhaps 85% accurate on most US coins. And I emphasize USA coins because too many foreign countries use nickel, steel or some other magnetic-based ferrous material to make their coins so they won't be as nice-and-proper consistent like an air-tested US coin.

Also, I am referring to any detector's potential 'correctness' to identify a US Coin. The problem, as related in the first set of cautions, is 'Conductivity' and there are so many pieces of objects or whole objects that are lost or discarded that share a similar 'Conductivity' to a US Coin that it becomes almost impossible for the operator and detector to agree on what is likely a good or bad target, A
VDI read-out suggests an objects Visual Discrimination Indication of what it might potentially be. Quite often, in less favorable environments, the 'VD' portion might just stand for Very Discouraging.

Best advice from me, and I've only been at it for over half-a-century, is BE PATIENT! Learn the detector, listen to the audio response, hunt as often as you can and recover as many targets as you can. When you do, relate the audio and visual experience to what was actually recovered. Results will be site-dependent, but one thing I'd discourage is trying to put full faith in any blasted Target ID display read-out. It's only a tool, not the final decision maker.

Monte
@ one thing I'd discourage is trying to put full faith in any blasted Target ID display read-out. It's only a tool, not the final decision maker.

wow...all these years and all the stuff I have found has been based on the Blasted Target Id numbers.....I run my etrac using the target id as a final decision to dig or not.
I can isolate multiple targets in a hole , usually ,if there is a coin there, it will throw the coins id at me enough times to call it good or bad. I , for one, do run target id's numbers and know a few others that do very well using them....This is with the fbs units....for me , it is the etrac and I get a good id number or I won't dig.
 
I run my etrac using the target id as a final decision to dig or not. I can isolate multiple targets in a hole , usually ,if there is a coin there, it will throw the coins d at me enough times to call it good or bad. I , for one, do run target id's numbers and know a few others that do very well using them....This is with the fbs units....for me , it is the etrac and I get a good id number or I won't dig.
I also use Target ID, but I don't make a dig / no-dig decision based only on that. I try to use a fairly low discrimination leyeah it's a discrimination level and I go by the audio response to make my recovery decisions. A glance at the visual display only gives me an idea of what I might be looking for in the recovery.

I used to use the BBS Sovereign and then I switch to the FBS Explorer series. They all have their strengths, and I credit the Explorer series with being able to do well on higher conductive targets such as copper pennies and silver coins. And with every detector I have used, be it an SMF or Single Frequency, I have also been able to get signals on multiple targets in a hole or in a tight setting. Sometimes, but definitely not always, you can get a good indication of a higher conductive coin type target at least on one or more of the repeated sweeps of the spot. That can be a good hint to make a recovery.

However, not all of those ID's will be accurate, and not all recoveries will be a 'keeper's. Quite a few visual responses are going to be a 'blended' read-out of two or more adjacent metals, thus inaccurate. Also, one issure with some detectors is that they might work very well for locating high-conductive targets, but do poorly on a lot of lower-conductivity targets. And, quite often, they also do not do well when worked in a dense Iron debris environment. That can impair their ability to unmask good targets in a tough environmen, and most FBS models fall in that category.

I know a lot of very active hobbyists who get out detecting often, many of whom use TID most of the time. The majority of them are Urban Coin Hunters and being 'selective' about their recoveries based on TID do have a good success rate. However, a lot of us hunt the same areas with them or on our own, and we ALSO make good recoveries. We find the targets they miss, as well as recover the good targets they left behind, simply because the visual read-out wasn't good enought.

I am not saying Target ID cannot be correct. Every every detector with TID can produce a correct read-out, if all conditions are favorable. But the other things to consider are that all TID machines are going to be inaccurate at times on good targets, and there are also a lot of undesirable targets that will produce a good coin type TID reading , therefore Target ID is not going to be a 100% reliable.


One closing comment about Target ID is that Quite often, probably most often, we see people making repeated sweeps sweeps over and over and over again trying to get a correct ID from a located target. I see this in actual hunting with others, and time after time on many YouTube videos. Wasted time and effort in my mind.

When I'm out detecting I mainly go by the audio response. My Sensitivity is as high as I can take it, and the Discrimination as low as I can tolerate. When I get a good target hit, it only takes 2 or no more than 3 repeated sweeps to get an idea from the audio response about the target and to pinpoint.

Then I make a quick recovery .... look at the recovery object and visually Discriminate to know what it is and if it is a keeper or trash. In the course of a day of hunting I can do that more often than most folks who were busy with their multiple-multiple sweep method.

So I didn't suggest not to use it for what it can do, just to be aware that it is far from being highly accurate, especially on coins too deep, at odd angles, or when hunting in trash that can mask a keeper, or might produce a good-target read-out.

Monte
 
I also use Target ID, but I don't make a dig / no-dig decision based only on that. I try to use a fairly low discrimination leyeah it's a discrimination level and I go by the audio response to make my recovery decisions. A glance at the visual display only gives me an idea of what I might be looking for in the recovery.

I used to use the BBS Sovereign and then I switch to the FBS Explorer series. They all have their strengths, and I credit the Explorer series with being able to do well on higher conductive targets such as copper pennies and silver coins. And with every detector I have used, be it an SMF or Single Frequency, I have also been able to get signals on multiple targets in a hole or in a tight setting. Sometimes, but definitely not always, you can get a good indication of a higher conductive coin type target at least on one or more of the repeated sweeps of the spot. That can be a good hint to make a recovery.

However, not all of those ID's will be accurate, and not all recoveries will be a 'keeper's. Quite a few visual responses are going to be a 'blended' read-out of two or more adjacent metals, thus inaccurate. Also, one issure with some detectors is that they might work very well for locating high-conductive targets, but do poorly on a lot of lower-conductivity targets. And, quite often, they also do not do well when worked in a dense Iron debris environment. That can impair their ability to unmask good targets in a tough environmen, and most FBS models fall in that category.

I know a lot of very active hobbyists who get out detecting often, many of whom use TID most of the time. The majority of them are Urban Coin Hunters and being 'selective' about their recoveries based on TID do have a good success rate. However, a lot of us hunt the same areas with them or on our own, and we ALSO make good recoveries. We find the targets they miss, as well as recover the good targets they left behind, simply because the visual read-out wasn't good enought.


I am not saying Target ID cannot be correct. Every every detector with TID can produce a correct read-out, if all conditions are favorable. But the other things to consider are that all TID machines are going to be inaccurate at times on good targets, and there are also a lot of undesirable targets that will produce a good coin type TID reading , therefore Target ID is not going to be a 100% reliable.

One closing comment about Target ID is that Quite often, probably most often, we see people making repeated sweeps sweeps over and over and over again trying to get a correct ID from a located target. I see this in actual hunting with others, and time after time on many YouTube videos. Wasted time and effort in my mind.

When I'm out detecting I mainly go by the audio response. My Sensitivity is as high as I can take it, and the Discrimination as low as I can tolerate. When I get a good target hit, it only takes 2 or no more than 3 repeated sweeps to get an idea from the audio response about the target and to pinpoint.

Then I make a quick recovery .... look at the recovery object and visually Discriminate to know what it is and if it is a keeper or trash. In the course of a day of hunting I can do that more often than most folks who were busy with their multiple-multiple sweep method.

So I didn't suggest not to use it for what it can do, just to be aware that it is far from being highly accurate, especially on coins too deep, at odd angles, or when hunting in trash that can mask a keeper, or might produce a good-target read-out.

Monte
The coil choice and detector setup will do most of what you are saying... Elmy out .
 
Art Director, first and foremost, one needs to learn their detector. This comes about from digging a wide range of good sounding targets and a range of target id's at varying depths. Not every coin type will always id the same. Some are corroded, wear is different and then there is masking/co-located targets, that will bounce id's around. I think target id is nice tool, but I strongly feel if its relied on solely some good targets are being left behind. Good luck! This is a great hobby, HH jim tn
 
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