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Tech Question about Tone VS Meter Reading

A

Anonymous

Guest
I got to hunt today for a while and hit a very, very faint tone. I was skeptical to dig it, but I was able to wiggle up a 180 on the meter. With a spade shovel I cut a 10" round plug and went down about 14" and with my S-1 found a nice wheatie.
My question! As target tone will get faint do to depth, will the meter ID with accuracy? On a coin 3" down my Elite emits the most beautiful "PONG" that I don't have to look at the meter. I guess what I am really asking is, does the meter still hear what we do not have the ability to hear? I think I said it right! As always, I appreciate the help!
Gene
 
Gene, your technique in "wiggling" the deep wheatie to 180 and digging it is dead-on classic Sovereign hunting. Good job. And if you're digging ANY coin at 14", you're doing something right. I'm a bit surprised that you got a 180 out of it at that depth. The deeper they are, the harder it will be to do that. So that wheatie had a heck of a nice halo around it and it sang out for you.
I have seen that kind of accuracy at depth and then again I have seen some that were too deep to come up that high but once dug, would hit a 180 on the ground. It's pretty much a matter of listening to it, wiggling it up to the best you can get, and deciding to dig. Of course, when dealing with an apparent coin-sized object that is obviously deep, if you're getting any kind of decently high meter reading out of it you should dig it.
Glad to hear you are adjusting so well and "digging" your Minelab. <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":)">
 
When I pulled this 10"x10" plug of earth out and then stuck my S-1 in the hole, the "pong" seemed to be extra loud. I pin pointed, went in with my trowl, and lifted out a very thick, bright green wad. The soil had a stain all around it. I could not tell what is was until I got home and washed it. I have it soaking in water hoping it will clean up better. I THINK, I am not sure, the date is 1910. I LOVE THIS STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mike, Thanks For All Your Help
Gene
 
often I see where the meter will not make it to 180...now i imagine if i wiggled and danced it up i could work a 180 out of it...mainly I notice the faint wisper telling me of a deep target...then when looking at the meter it tends to flirt with high numbers but never really gets up to 180 before I hit the ground and start plugging....I have also been able to get 180 outta certian targets ..but mainly the nine inch plus targets i see are faint and wanna seem to climb to about 168/9 range....at that depth Its all about the sound in my mind.......good luck and glad to hear you got a deep coin...14 inchs thats darn deep...havent done that yet...
 
If you did you will start digging more just like it. This is what we call those weepers that the tone and the meter will be trying to climb, but many do not make it. The signals are so deep the Sovereign is seeing them, but being they are deep they will be small too and you will find you have to go slow to hear them,plus doing the wiggle the tone and the meter will be trying to climb. After you have dug a few of them you will remember the tones they gave and you will be able to get more. On many of these that may be questionable I will go to pinpoint and do my 90 degrees pinpoint where I go side to side to center, push coil to ground so it dont move off that spot and then go side to side again so you now will have the target right under the center of the coil. hold the coil still and switch to disc and slightly wigge the coil and if it dont null and the tones start climbing I will be digging.
I am going to try to post a picture of some coins I found in a well worked park that 90% of these were 10 or more inches down, never gave the correct ID but could tell they were trying to climb. The one merc I knew something was there and never could get the meter to even get to 139, but knew it was trying. One of the Wheaties was a 1931 S which I needed for my colection. I was very thankfull I had my S1 probe or I may not have found some of these as they were deep.
Rick
 
Gene, are you using the Sov. Elite or GT?
Man that is extreme! 14" on a penny! Wow! I may just have to get me a GT.
 
Gene,
You ask a very good question and have received some excellent, experienced (Sovereign-user) answers from Rick, Mike and Adam.
Typically, the various Sovereign ID meters track the audio tone and meter output voltage and produce an ID reading that is in step with them. However, once the audio tones and ID meter voltages become weak, less stable and non-repeatable, accurate target ID becomes problematic and less accurate.
ID meter design does make a vast difference as to how good or bad the meter is able to 'handle' these types of weak responses. First, the ID meter's input sensitivity and 'signal conditioning' design plays a big part in being able to process weak signals and in producing an accurate ID indication. Also, ID meters that use 'computer chip' micro controllers -- such as the Target A.I.M. PRO -- have the added ability to 'intelligently' 'look' at and process a particular, or series of target or voltage readings, and make a determination based on its multi-faceted internal software program as to whether the target is good or bad and where to indicate the target on the display. This is, for example, what Tesoro does with their 'Sum' mode and White's with their DFX's 'Best Data' and 'Correlate' modes. Basically, these modes average and compare readings to determine the most accurate ID possible . We also (automatically) do something similar to this within our Patriot Target A.I.M. PRO ID meter.
Still, as Rick, Mike and Adam have said, you need to master certain Sovereign operational techniques to get the most out of any 'add on' ID meter used.
On the Target A.I.M. PRO meter, many deep, marginal targets will be indicated by the meter pointer 'spiking' up toward the correct ID reading or category. Usually, when you see these kinds of indications, it means that the target is deep and not producing enough signal to enable a 100% accurate meter or audio indication. These types of signals should always be retrieved no matter what the meter or audio ID indicates. Especially if they sound small and deep in the pinpoint mode too.
Climbing meter readings and audio tones are indicative of a good target deep in the ground and should always be carefully investigated.
Joe
 
How well does your meter work in heavy noise?
Do you use shielded cable to help block the trash from getting in on the ID line??
HH
 
Art,
I assume the 'heavy noise' you are referring to means noise sources such as A.C. power lines, electric fences, RF, arcing, pulse-type, etc.
Outside noise sources such as A.C. power lines, electric fences, etc. are more of a direct 'pick-up' problem for the Sovereign than for our meter. The Sovereign and our meter do not require shielded cable, as the signal passed through the cable is high enough to override most external low-level electro-magnetic noise. The Sovereign uses a pre-amp circuit built into its search coil to raise the signal level enough to enable the use of non-shielded cable. Actually, amplifying at the 'head end' (search coil itself) is a common RF design practice for improving signal to noise levels. However, the actual search coil itself - as with most metal detectors - is very susceptible to receiving outside electro-magnetic noise which can be passed on through the cables and into the internal circuitry of the metal detector causing noise problems. There are methods of reducing and filtering this out though... some work better than others. And of course, some noise is so severe that no amount of filtering helps.
In a situation where the Sovereign is 'picking up' outside noise interference and its tone is 'jumping around' in response to it, our meter will also 'jump around', as it tracks the Sovereign's ID voltage and tones. So will any other Sovereign meter. That's just the way it is.
I hope this explanation helps.
Joe
 
I could turn the sensitivity down enough in most places with gruesome electrical interference enough to smooth the threshold out with no bounce or jump.
Problem was that the meter would fuzz all over under these conditions.
Sensitivity adjustments did no good until I replaced the meter cable with shielded line.
Only get random noise spikes now.
Wondered how your meter did under these conditions.
The noise that was getting into the cable (not the coil) was the point of my concern.
HH
 
Art,
External noise pickup has not been a problem for our meter. Unlike other unshielded meter cables, our cable uses twisted-pair wire which in itself optimizes noise cancellation. We also designed into our circuit numerous bypass capacitors which help with filtering and bypassing noise and other such interference. In addition, some of the critical integrated circuits used in our design have very high common-mode rejection characteristics, which aids in minimizing and/or eliminating noise interference.
There may be a few places were the external noise interference is just so severe that nothing will work. However, for the vast majority of places that users of our meter search, there should not be any problems.
Joe
 
Thanks, Joe.
Sometimes I'm not very clear in how I ask a question. I try to be a little bit too direct, and sometimes that confuses others.
The twisted pair wiring is a great idea. Used to work around twisted, shielded pairs. Pretty effective on most noise.
HH
 
Art,
As I have said many times, much thought went into the design of our meter. Many things (design factors) are not obviously apparent at first glance... or even second or third! We tried to cover as many 'bases' as possible and the results show in the high performance and quality of our meter.
Joe
 
For quite some time and know there was a lot of thought and quality components put into this meter from all I read. What I dont see is how this meter can be any better for us that know the Sovereign well and have used the SunRay or the rescaled Minelab meter. I think this is a great meter for those that are new to the Sovereign though and from what I have seen and read it is also very well built.
I have been waiting for a used one to come up on the classified or E Bay for a reasonable price just to satisfy my curiuosity, but guess what?? Those that have one are not selling them( that should say something),so maybe latter this summer I will have to break down and buy a new one just to see for myself if it can be better for us that know the Sovereign and use a SunRay or rescaled Minelab meter.
Rick
 
Rick,
Like anything... nothing is perfect. Both digital and analog meters have their pros and cons... and those who like them and those who don't. It's all a matter of choice.
What I have tried to do, is to make the best analog meter possible. So, for those who like analog needle-pointer type meters, it fits the bill nicely.
Actually, I would have loved to have built a meter that had both. But cost prohibits it, unless it is a very 'striped-down' model.
You will never know if you like our meter or not until you try it. It's just like with metal detectors. Some like certain brands and models and others do not.
Worst case, if you buy one and don't like it... sell it. I guarantee you that it will sell quickly!
Joe
 
I will be doing some testing on my Elite this spring with the setup I built first, then if I keep it i will have to try one of your meters and if I dont like it I am sure I can sell it as there has been none for sale.
Rick
 
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