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tecnetics omega 11'' brick test
- Thread starter dioramix
- Start date
Keith Southern
Active member
n/t
earthmansurfer
Active member
Good point but my T2 won't pass that nail test, will yours? I used a rusty nail though...Keith Southern said:
Keith Southern
Active member
gotta be in one tone like he is though and disc enough to cancel the nail probably around 20-21 disc.. I will post up a video tomorrow !
Remember that once a nail is barely disced out and you sweep the nail and the target together it increases the snapshot of the target 2 different metals at the same time being analyzed combining the target raising it above nail disc enough to break through the disc..
Say the nail read's 20 and you disc it out... the coin reads 70 and the combined will still be way above the disc point so you get a hit..It wont be above 40 so dont use 2 tone it will call that target iron use 1 tone...
It's all about target surface area same trick with a railroad spike and the coin will not be heard... but put say a aluminum can under the spike and you will get a hit..
Now turn the nail sideways and the surface area for the sweep approach increases and then the target cant break through it's at 20 at most now unless you use say a silver dollar or such and then you will hear it but might only read say 50 when combined with the nail but would read 95 buy it's self..
Actually all of this is basically useless once you hit the dirt
I have seen detectors not even be able to do this till dirt is added to the mix then they do it better than the ones that airtest the trick better but suffer in the ground..
Keith
Remember that once a nail is barely disced out and you sweep the nail and the target together it increases the snapshot of the target 2 different metals at the same time being analyzed combining the target raising it above nail disc enough to break through the disc..
Say the nail read's 20 and you disc it out... the coin reads 70 and the combined will still be way above the disc point so you get a hit..It wont be above 40 so dont use 2 tone it will call that target iron use 1 tone...
It's all about target surface area same trick with a railroad spike and the coin will not be heard... but put say a aluminum can under the spike and you will get a hit..
Now turn the nail sideways and the surface area for the sweep approach increases and then the target cant break through it's at 20 at most now unless you use say a silver dollar or such and then you will hear it but might only read say 50 when combined with the nail but would read 95 buy it's self..
Actually all of this is basically useless once you hit the dirt
I have seen detectors not even be able to do this till dirt is added to the mix then they do it better than the ones that airtest the trick better but suffer in the ground..
Keith
Jackpine Savage
Active member
Right on target Keith.. and would you agree that the in dirt results can sometimes be attributed to the difference between analog and the newer digital machines?
Tom
Keith Southern
Active member
n/t
earthmansurfer
Active member
Keith Southern said:
Thanks for the info Keith. That was pretty useful. I had my discrimination at 21 I believe and couldn't get the coin to sound with the nail 1" from it (and of course nothing when on it.) It seems to me that the Omega 8000 is better with most things than the T2. Would you not agree? By reading here it seems that people are leaning in that way. What is the T2 better at ? Does it get maybe 1" more of depth? It seems that it's just a product of advancement in the electronics. Maybe the T2 has more functionality with Modes and a better interface (I like the knob and one button as well as the pull trigger pinpointing and GB.). Perhaps a price adjustment is in order? (And I don't mean to make the Omega more $$$!)
The example didn't specify what particular discriminate level was used and that can make a difference. Just barely rejected will help desired targets sound off, while well rejected iron litter can cause desired target masking.
Additionally, the particular "sample" can differ which, in this case, is a good sized brick. That, too, doesn't make for a good comparison as I have seen some brinks that were very low in iron mineralization and could quite easily be ground cancelled. Often much less than adjacent ground. Then there are some old town sites I hunt where the brick material is rather conductive and rather different from the adjacent ground and they call for either a higher ground balance setting, or they might have a very low-conductive content and actually need just a hint of discrimination to knock them out.
Now, with that said, I like the looks and 'feel' of the Omega 8000. I get very nice performance with the 10" concentric coil for a lot of coin hunting needs, and I only have a 5" coil for my Omega which get a lot of use. Mode changes on the Omega can be as fast or slightly faster. I like the 2+ audio tones with the T[sup][size=small]2[/size][/sup], but the other tone ID options don't serve me as well as those offered on the Omega. Most often I hunt in d2 with my Omega, but I also opt for d4 when doing quick work in playground sand such and I find the Omega to provide a little better TID a little deeper than my Omega. Also, the TID segments are larger and easier for my old eyes to see well.
I agree about the price difference and what I would like to see is a little upgrading of the T[sup][size=small]2[/size][/sup] and, maybe, a slight price change. It could stay the same but just a little bit of renovation. Both are, however, good detectors and while I like my T[sup][size=small]2[/size][/sup], there is no replacing the excellent, multi-tasking Omega as my #1 pick detector..
Monte
Additionally, the particular "sample" can differ which, in this case, is a good sized brick. That, too, doesn't make for a good comparison as I have seen some brinks that were very low in iron mineralization and could quite easily be ground cancelled. Often much less than adjacent ground. Then there are some old town sites I hunt where the brick material is rather conductive and rather different from the adjacent ground and they call for either a higher ground balance setting, or they might have a very low-conductive content and actually need just a hint of discrimination to knock them out.
Keith provides a lot of beneficial info, too, and I have seen many cases where such 'brick tests" with iron nails and such just didn't cut it. Also, without the rejection level known, it makes it difficult to match the test settings, and as noted, the "brick" was not turned lengthwise. That alone can make a difference.earthmansurfer said:
For some of us, and in many ways, I have to agree about the performance 'edge' of the Omega and Gamma when using a similar search coil and side-by-side testing. Do I like the T[sup][size=small]2[/size][/sup] ? Yes, which is why I own one. Do I prefer to use my Omega 8000? Yes, I do, and there are reasons why, too.earthmansurfer said:
The T[sup][size=small]2[/size][/sup] has a somewhat different balance or feel. Not that the Omega is bad, they are just different and some prefer the T[sup][size=small]2[/size][/sup]. The 4 AA alkaline batteries to power a T[sup][size=small]2[/size][/sup] cost a little less than one equal-quality alkaline 9v battery and I like that. The trigger toggle to select Fast Grab or pinpoint is also a very nice function some prefer. In some applications, depending upon the ground mineral environment, I can get just slightly better depth of detection w/o visual TID.earthmansurfer said:
Now, with that said, I like the looks and 'feel' of the Omega 8000. I get very nice performance with the 10" concentric coil for a lot of coin hunting needs, and I only have a 5" coil for my Omega which get a lot of use. Mode changes on the Omega can be as fast or slightly faster. I like the 2+ audio tones with the T[sup][size=small]2[/size][/sup], but the other tone ID options don't serve me as well as those offered on the Omega. Most often I hunt in d2 with my Omega, but I also opt for d4 when doing quick work in playground sand such and I find the Omega to provide a little better TID a little deeper than my Omega. Also, the TID segments are larger and easier for my old eyes to see well.
I agree about the price difference and what I would like to see is a little upgrading of the T[sup][size=small]2[/size][/sup] and, maybe, a slight price change. It could stay the same but just a little bit of renovation. Both are, however, good detectors and while I like my T[sup][size=small]2[/size][/sup], there is no replacing the excellent, multi-tasking Omega as my #1 pick detector..
Monte
I do not understand what this test is proving. Does one in a real detecting world is seeking single coins covered by a brick? And why detector which can do that is better than the other? I have used Omega 8000 with a standard 10" coil and I was not very impressed with its performance eg. Tesoro Tejon is much deeper and more sensitive, while would not pass this test with a brick. Anyway brick are made from a very different clays and have a very different properties, and various detectors would have to be compared using the same brick.
Keith Southern
Active member
Basically it proves it can do it in the air!!
But to a degree it proves you have a better chance of finding targets mixed in iron even with a dense packed ( Brick) soil on top of it,,,
the reason you cant hear the target in the other modes is because they are factory set for the tones to come in at certain disc ranges...When your in 2 tone on the Omega or T-2 the meter reading's below 40 are automatically iron tone The machine is hearing the target as long as the disc is low enough( I run mine on zero when in 2 tone) but it calls it iron tone.. Nails are about 21 on disc, coins 70-90 but mix the 2 together and the I.D. will be below 40 most of the swings sometimes it might jump above then you would get the higher tone but most swings will be below 40 so iron grunt win's out!
The one tone is like a conventional detector no tones just accept and reject....So even though the machine is seeing a combine coin and nail target equaling upper 20's lower 30's it will still signal because it just worries about the disc setting not the preset tone ranges...
One reason when you are really working trashy area's or iron laced areas it's better to use single tone and just dig it all so to speak...
Any form of discrimination is a handicap and when tones are involved especially on co-located target's it multiplies the handicap even more..
This is a reason I want the G2 to succeed ... Because it's just 2 tone but you can set the break point any where you like not where the factory say's.(.You have seen that targets are under 40 that can be good with these demonstration's) But by setting your own break point for particular site factor's like mineralization, trash iron etc you will be finding more and hearing the rejected target's at the same time by the low tone grunt..
I like this idea because in the wood's when walking with a typical detector without tones you can walk through nails and not even hear them and we all know where there's nails there was habitation and where there was habitation there is a potential for non-ferrous find's..I have walked though sites many times oblivious to there being nail's there so with a detector with tones and full disc we can hear these spot's and concentrate on them..The G-2 is just going to make it more easy because I like to know what I'm rejecting as much as what I am hearing and the pre set tones wont let you fine tune like this choose your own tone break setting the g2 is going to allow.
.As for a casual hunter who hunt's in park's for flash clad and such it's not that big of a deal and sadly that's what the detector markets aim there design's at...
But with the advent of microprocessor's we are starting to see thing's being incorporated into designs that use to be were expensive and impossible to please everyone ..So they went where the money was at... But now one chip can do all kind of things for the same price so we are starting to see true multi-purpose machines..
It's a great time to be involved in this hobby we will see some advances I believe beyond what we can dream of...
Hope this makes some sense????????
Keith
.
But to a degree it proves you have a better chance of finding targets mixed in iron even with a dense packed ( Brick) soil on top of it,,,
the reason you cant hear the target in the other modes is because they are factory set for the tones to come in at certain disc ranges...When your in 2 tone on the Omega or T-2 the meter reading's below 40 are automatically iron tone The machine is hearing the target as long as the disc is low enough( I run mine on zero when in 2 tone) but it calls it iron tone.. Nails are about 21 on disc, coins 70-90 but mix the 2 together and the I.D. will be below 40 most of the swings sometimes it might jump above then you would get the higher tone but most swings will be below 40 so iron grunt win's out!
The one tone is like a conventional detector no tones just accept and reject....So even though the machine is seeing a combine coin and nail target equaling upper 20's lower 30's it will still signal because it just worries about the disc setting not the preset tone ranges...
One reason when you are really working trashy area's or iron laced areas it's better to use single tone and just dig it all so to speak...
Any form of discrimination is a handicap and when tones are involved especially on co-located target's it multiplies the handicap even more..
This is a reason I want the G2 to succeed ... Because it's just 2 tone but you can set the break point any where you like not where the factory say's.(.You have seen that targets are under 40 that can be good with these demonstration's) But by setting your own break point for particular site factor's like mineralization, trash iron etc you will be finding more and hearing the rejected target's at the same time by the low tone grunt..
I like this idea because in the wood's when walking with a typical detector without tones you can walk through nails and not even hear them and we all know where there's nails there was habitation and where there was habitation there is a potential for non-ferrous find's..I have walked though sites many times oblivious to there being nail's there so with a detector with tones and full disc we can hear these spot's and concentrate on them..The G-2 is just going to make it more easy because I like to know what I'm rejecting as much as what I am hearing and the pre set tones wont let you fine tune like this choose your own tone break setting the g2 is going to allow.
.As for a casual hunter who hunt's in park's for flash clad and such it's not that big of a deal and sadly that's what the detector markets aim there design's at...
But with the advent of microprocessor's we are starting to see thing's being incorporated into designs that use to be were expensive and impossible to please everyone ..So they went where the money was at... But now one chip can do all kind of things for the same price so we are starting to see true multi-purpose machines..
It's a great time to be involved in this hobby we will see some advances I believe beyond what we can dream of...
Hope this makes some sense????????
Keith
.
Keith Southern
Active member
use 1 tone and disc just enough to knock out the nail's............................ in 2+ tone I like to use zero disc and hear it all..
I like to know what I'm not after as much as I like to know what I am after if that makes sense?....If you know what is being rejected ( iron/Nails) it can help you fine tune your hunting techniques .....When you hear the machine gun iron you know to slow way down and get into super sleuth mode!!! That's the beauty of a full range disc ...
If they would let us set the break point where ever The disc is at like the G2 hopefully will allow..It will be icing on the cake I myself would have to more need for the 1+ tone..You would have the advantage of the 1 tone unmasking attributes with the informative 2 tone mode!!! How sweet will that be!!!
Keith
I like to know what I'm not after as much as I like to know what I am after if that makes sense?....If you know what is being rejected ( iron/Nails) it can help you fine tune your hunting techniques .....When you hear the machine gun iron you know to slow way down and get into super sleuth mode!!! That's the beauty of a full range disc ...
If they would let us set the break point where ever The disc is at like the G2 hopefully will allow..It will be icing on the cake I myself would have to more need for the 1+ tone..You would have the advantage of the 1 tone unmasking attributes with the informative 2 tone mode!!! How sweet will that be!!!
Keith
