Teknetics Cure For Chinese Clones, Counterfeit T2's

[Sven]

Wow, Teknetics retaliation to the Chinese version T2.

Considering the Chinese T2 counterfeits and the rebadged versions Mars Viking and GF2.
The counterfeits and GF2 are known to have terrible constructed coils so you are forced to buy an after market coil to make them perform.
Which in turn drives the prices up closer to the real deal.

The Chinese also have the 15" coil for sale about $140.00, compare that to TEknetics new price of $85.

I can see the Chinese getting a headache. Wonder if they will drop prices further to unload...LOL

T2 counterfeit or rebadged clones
$120-150, shipping and other fees $110, plus cost of an after market coil with shipping $150-170.

Sorry this may hurt current owners of the real T2 who want to sell them.

At MSRP of $499 wonder what street price will be.

http://files.ctctcdn.com/679bd743501/e2df7455-8ef3-4fd2-ac12-73f0c5aad313.pdf

 

[John in Nawth Carolina]

I think you assume too much, Sven.

 

[lytle78]

John, I think Sven is pretty much right on the money.

First Texas has been selling the T2 in africa all along and sucessfully competing with the counterfeits and look alikes, helped bygh end detector pricing a relly effective distributor.

This re-introduction to the US and presumably soon world market at a very attractife price builds on the T2's brand reputation. Why pay good money for a dubious product when you can get the real thing for a bit more.

I suspect that FT plans to blow the lid off high end detector prices generally, making a lot of competitors sweat.

 

[marcomo]

Sven and Rick, it always gives me pause when I disagree with more than one knowledgeable person, but still I disagree.

The F75/T2 lines have been the FT flagships since 2006 and they are at the tail end of that run. This is a chance to ramp up the profits before the next flagship comes out.

I don't think FT is worrying about fighting the Chinese on price, at least not primarily. Quality is a fight they can easily win against the Chinese, competing on price is a losing battle.

 

[John in Nawth Carolina]

Maybe, maybe not. I'm thinking the Turkish machines have somthing to do with it.

 

[lytle78]

Together we know more than any one of us knows. We're all right - it's "all of the above"!

Detector sales are really slow right now for everybody. Minelab released their half year results yesterday and said sales were "flat". Their parent - Codan is the only publicly traded detector maker so they have to issue public reports.

 

[Cal_Cobra]

I don't think the Turkish machines have anything to do with it, I doubt FT really cares about them, Makro/Nokta is a niche market. That could change in the future.

The T2 is over ten years old, I'm sure this is a cost reduction design, so it's proabably costing about the same to make this as a F44. Why not squeeze a few more years out of the design with a big price slash and fill the coffers up a bit before the new flagships come out in 2016? Besides they're building a new 100,000 square ft production facility, somethings got to pay for that.

 

[Mike Hillis]

Wow. Thats a deal!

It makes sense to me.

You can pay the regular price of $899 for the T2 SE or you can get a T2 Classic workhorse for $499. That keeps the classic T2 in the game and does a number on the competitors, regardless of who they are, at the same time.

$499 for a new Classic T2 is an attractive price no matter how you look at it, even if you don't really need it. Makes me want to buy one just for old times sake. The T2 along with that biaxial coil was the first metal detector I was ever asked to help prototype and field test. Hard to believe it was that long ago.

The Alien returns Ok....it ain't like it hasn't always been available. I guess it's the price. Makes it seem new again.

HH
Mike

 

[Cal_Cobra]

It would be interesting to open an original one, and a new one and see what's changed.

 

[eSCANZ]

I dont think the Chinese are as worried as OP makes out

 

[Sven]

I dont think the Chinese are as worried as OP makes out

I can tell you right now, the Chinese manufacturer's T2 clone sales are extremely slow and looking to make super deals on 50 to 100 unit lots.
They are looking to make sales. Their costs are approx. $60 for one unit. You can buy them as low as $120 in 4 unit lots. $100 without the coil.
They will even custom make a private label to your design like they did for the MARS Viking.
So the Chinese are willing to deal to move inventory piling up.

At the risk of being called a traitor etc. I will say I have tested one of the Goldfinder GF2 units with the stock 11" biaxial coil it comes with. At that point any
person who has owned a metal detector would tell you it's junk. It falses non-stop as you sweep the coil, very poorly internal construction. You are forced to buy
an after market coil or a genuine Tek coil. Then the GF2 works beautifully, build quality was excellent. By the way the manufacturer, said they are unable to produce a coil to match the genuine coils performance.
I obtained one GF2 to test and see what all the chatter was about on the overseas forums, UK, German, Russian, Ukrainian....who have been buying them for a number of years.
As nice as the GF2 is with the aftermarket coil, I have now passed it onto another.

So the current deal T2 is a super buy, with full warranty for those in the USA. And for fellow Canadians the T2 is one of the better LCD target ID machines when it comes to locating modern Canadian clad coins.
And loves gold rings.

Well, time to try another European or US machine.

 

[lytle78]

Buy a GF2 (or whatever label is on the same box) and here's what you are buying. Based on the best information I can get, here's what you are getting.

Let us just call my source for the following information "someone with detailed knowledge of the hardware and software of the GF2".

This person, in a responsible position in industry, has assured me that the box labeled GF2 and all its other labels is the same Chinese counterfiet detector that tried to steal the T2‘s market in Africa. It is indeed a counterfeit, an exact copy of T2 hardware and software, and not just a look alike.

This means that it would be potentially subject to seizure by US Customs - since it would be illegal contraband.

If you buy one, you are aiding and abetting theft. Theft of intellectual property and theft of American jobs.

I'm not waving the flag here, just speaking plainly.

Choose who you want to line up with. I made my choice back in '68.

 

[eSCANZ]

A fair bit of heresay is all I am getting, however, this new deal on the Teknetics T2 is a great deal -

Sven - you mention China are doing deals on bulk quantity - they have been doing this for the last 3+ years so I dont think desperation is the cause -
You also mention coil issue - did you contact them regarding your findings? did they replace your faulty coil?
The reason I ask is that the very first GF2 I purchased over three years may have had a faulty coil as I was only able to get to around 80% depth of the original T2. Recently I have had the pleasure to workshop & field test 3 more and I can assure you that they do perform to the very same standard as the original T2 -

I have also found the manufacturer of the GF2 to be very approachable and customer focused -

The Viking MDMars is indeed a rebranded GF2 with the exception of the middle and lower rods being provided by FT and the coil supplied by MDMars and retails for $499usd - Not bad considering that unit with that coil will go deeper that the original T2 -

The GF2 which IMO is the very same as the T2 can be had for $140 plus $120 shipping & there is no need to be rushing out getting a coil for it - the 11"DD that comes with the GF2 is fine, however if you are unfortunate to get a bad one, let the supplier know and they will replace it = simple
Also with the shipping costs. If you purchase two the shipping charges remain the same so I would order in pairs and by selling one off you should come out of it with a free detector -

I find it enlightening to say the least to see Teknetics pushing their old flagship like this as I was kinda expecting something new - All good though as the T2 - Viking - GF2 or whatever you want to call it rocks

lytle78 with respect sir - if it is illegal then why are these guys still representing First Texas?
http://metallodetektor.com.ua/metallodetektor-mars-md-viking.htm

and from what I have read from detectorists around the world it appears their customs has no problems letting rebranded T2's coming into their countries so perhaps its not as illegal as you are making out -

Asides from all this chit chat I gotta say that I hope these T2's fly off the shelves

 

[Sven]

I have been in personal contact with the manufacturer.
The sales rep indicated she had their technicians try due to numerous complaints by veteran treasure hunters. But, results that were not too much better. Nigel in the UK tested the latest coil.
My coil is not an isolated incidence. The manufacturer is fully aware of the situation. That's why they will now offer the GF2 and SF2 without coils, at even further reduction in price.
Some coils performance may be a bit better than others. They will work at 50% or less sensitivity but, still false.
MARS Vikings were also bought without coils and they have been on the market for a few years. They found out early.................
I ripped open one of the coils, construction is the worst I have ever seen...................................
As you I have had my hands on 4 GF2's as well as many others on the UK forum we all bought from the same supplier.
For one sample unit $160 plus $102 shipping. with coil to Canada
Next price break is 4 units with out coils $100 each shipping of units $262 to Canada
If you want to buy 50 units without the coil, rep said there will be a big discount.
None of what I write is hearsay.
I am not a dealer nor a distributor, just wanted to try one out as so many said it was a really good machine, fully aware you needed an after market coil.
It was also indicated that a number of units first shipped were cherry picked as the best in the lots and sent out as samples.

Now I believe there are a number of manufacturers, distributors of the GF2, T2 fakes in China. Probably why some are of less quality than others, speculation.

The clones were pretty cheap just enough enticement to give them a try, a gamble many took. Since the Chinese produce most of our electronic stereos, test equipment etc., I also took the gamble.
Unfortunately I got a bum coil. Had I not bought the NEL Sharpshooter, with cured all problems, the GF2 was destined for the parts box. Its now a joy to use. So much so I was going to buy a genuine T2.

I no longer own the GF2, hate owning more than a few machines. Making a decision which one to take out hunting can become a problem..........LOL

 

[Sven]

Can agree with you, the Chinese are master copiers, if its out there they can replicate it.
The T2 's are purposely counterfeited to fool customers into thinking they are buying a T2 at genuine T2 prices.
That's criminal but, 90% of the countries around the world in turmoil or not, those folks don't give a rats butt when it comes to profits,
besides hating the USA......Also not illegal in most countries to import fake goods.
Rebranding provides a loophole, and the GF2's come in a plain non-labled box. That I thought nothing was trying to be hidden or
directly indicating it was a copy of the T2. So I considered it a look alike and didn't think much more about it, just like the ones that look similar to
an Ace 250. Again would not have cared too much until what I saw under the control box covers. At that point, you knew the GF2 was a rebranded fake T2.

I doubt if one of the plain boxed GF2 was inspected at US Customs or a bulk pack of 4 would get seized by US Customs. No where is it indicated as being a Teknetics T2.
Unless they open the control box. It just looks like another Chinese import item. The Chinese only insure the parcels for extremely low manufacturers cost.

I am sure First Texas, per a post made by one of their reps indicated the steps they are taking action to combat the fake T2's.
Doubt they can do much against a Communist country with 100 billion Chinese. Funny as I recall First Texas sells military tactical equipment............http://www.fisherlab.com/industrial/links.htm

One day maybe the Chinese will produce their very own metal detector product that will compete with worldwide manufacturers products. It's on the horizon............
The label on the box will read "Proudly Made in China".....like everything else it seems.

I don't care where a detector is made, if its a good solid performing unit with good reviews, I am always game to try. Hard finding a good target ID screen machine when it comes to hunting Canadian clad.

It is not recommended to make any attempt to buy the GF2 or fake T's in any bulk quantity to resell to make a profit. First Texas will hunt you down. Buying a sample GF2 now that the T2 has been marked down in pricing, is probably not the best option for those living in North America. Especially if it comes to service and warranty and re-saleability. The fake T2 and GF2 are basically a throw away machine if they go belly up.

I no longer have a vested interest in the GF2, it has a new owner. My curiosity has been satisfied. Off to find some other detector to try.

 

[lytle78]

Sven,

Nice well balanced post.

Let you conscience be your guide in these matters. Have no doubt however - those nice folks in China are selling contraband.

What the actual situation with Mars is, I have no idea, except that FT does not list them among their dealers. Since I can' t read Ukranian, I don't know if they claim to be an authorized dealer. I asked the last guy who raised this issue - "where on the site they claimed to be an authorized dealer", but never got an answer.

As far as enforcement goes, local authorities are the only ones who can take action - this has already happened in Dubai, a major center for distributing fakes into Africa and I have been told by the same "industry source" I cited above that seizures have taken place in China.

The new RICO lawsuit brought against eBay for selling fake stuff may make them more diligent in rooting it out as well.

And lastly, FT does make military night vision gear. They are not advocating any kind of boycott of China, so I can' tree that any sale of that stuff to China by FT (which would probably never happen due to ITAR controls on export of military hardware) would have any relevance to this discussion.

 

[eSCANZ]

More direct action can be applied than what you have stated sir "As far as enforcement goes, local authorities are the only ones who can take action" by simply NOT supplying them products out of the USA would be a better option, don't you think? -

After all and according to many the GF2's are counterfeits, yet metallodetektor.com.ua import re-branded units (100 at a time) directly out of China under their new name Viking, which does not take rocket science to work out that the Viking coupled with a MarsMD coil will be in direct competition to two of First Texas's flagships the Teknetics T2 and the Fisher F75. As testing from that site shows the Viking has better depth when fitted with the after market coils and retails well under what they are marketing the T2/F75 for.

Now I am not 100% certain that this company is a authorized distributor for First Texas but if they are then why do they have the freedom to flaunt the laws whilst everyone else has to toe the line? If they are NOT authorized distributors I certainly would be concerned as to where thy are getting their stock from.

Or maybe because its in the Ukraine no-one gives a flying toss - I don't know, but I do know in the last few years Vikings have ordered out of China on at least two occasions, therefore one could speculate that there has been at least 100 Vikings sold @ 500usd each. That's a minimum of 25k there that First Texas has missed out on. That would suggest to anyone that First Texas do NOT use these guys as distributors but crazier things have happened. I have emailed FT to find out for certain - I will post their response, if I get one =

 

[goldfinder2pro]

I took a very strong interest in the gf2 back in march ,i was on the point of buying a used t2 but while researching on youtube i spotted the fake t2 warning video that incidently maybe someone here can confirm was filmed in El-Paso .Maybe someone can recognise the street lamp construction .
Anyway comparing that video with a eastern european one they were poles apart and i was intrigued to know the real truth .
I asked on my uk forum and got comments like rubbish ,magnet on piece of string ,you need to buy from our uk sponser ,plug,plug.
After a few days i got sick of being treated like a kid who needed educating ,or worse still being accused of considering funding criminal triad slave gangs. Then there was scarmongering that buy one Chinese machine today and your hi-tech machine of tommorrow wont get developed . You name it they threw it at me .
So i brought three different machines and proudly announced i was confident i have good machines after coil change .
Machines arrived and i was blown away by the quality ,apart from the naff coil stability,which i had already read about and factored for .
I fitted new nel and used original fisher coils and wow what a transformation .
Before i could post any in soil results the forum shut down the post and banned me without explanation .
When i requested explanation as to why i could no longer sign in i got a message back sorry been on holiday will get back to you ,they didnt and didnt reply to any other mails .
Later i got wind that Garys forum was testing a gf2 and about to post a video so i joined that forum
There the attitude was different ,but even Gary found out the hard way FT were willing to go to great lengths to combat promotion of gf2 .
It seems Garys forum is the only place you can say i found a hammy with my gf2 and no one wants to pick a fight with you .
One guy on another forum declared he felt it would not be possible for him to attend thier rally due to hostility to his choice of machine .
One of the mods assured him he was welcome to attend and had nothing to fear ,but i think it was too little too late ,certain members have shown outright hostility to anyone who uses a gf2 .

The $499 classic was a obvious move to combat gf2 and i just hope other makers drop thier over inflatted prices . a perfect t2 copy can be made for £40 in china ,why have we been paying £700? The coil issue is only a lack of knowledge ,the coil moulding is identical ,just the internal windings have been done badly ,sure if they knew what they were doing it would add less than a dollar to production cost .
As another example ,they do the 5" coil for g2 clone as a £10 accessory . i asked how many of these i could have expecting a limit at that price .no limit ,as many as you want .
That coil works perfect . And i brought a spare.
the t2 15" copy coil was available at $42 ,yes £25 .i think sven must have crossed wires thinking they are $140.
not tried them because they are heavy ,i would rather pay top dollar for a mars tiger.

Wh+ich brings us to Mars Viking . I heard from a good source how many units were involved and the low price they were purchased for without any coil . Lets just say mars have had a good couple of years with the viking,way past 200 units ,and based on viking performance ,mars coils are now flying off the shelves here in uk . I love mine on my gf2 .
i own t2 clone ,g2 clone ,and a 4 month old genuine omega 8000 ,
would you belive i am most disappointed in omega build quality .
Yes i brought it used ,but its spotless to look at ,but the handle is way ,way,looser than the gg2 already ,a problem i have heard mentioned on this forum but didnt expect on a 4 month old machine .
i wont expect a £350 t2 classic in uk ,but do expect it to be marketed around £300 in ukraine /bulgaria .
already the teknetics eurotek pro can be brought in bulgaria with 8" concentric and 13" detech coil for £200
we cant even buy the machine for that here.
just have to wait and see .#
The knock on effect has already begun ,a forum member on garys site recently advertised his genuine t2 ,with std coil and mars tiger £295 . given he had only just brought the tiger £130 thats about £200 for a used t2. first example of t2 price freefall ?
The chinese clones are morally wrong ,but i also feel its morally wrong to pay peanuts to china to produce every part of the machine ,then pay peanuts for assembly in mexico and still declare the product made in usa .
Yes they are doing more assembly in el-paso now to combat claims about machines origins .
The chinese have caused FT huge embarrasment .
But its all small potatoes when you consider the real world we put our headphones on to escape .http://www.rt.com/news/313861-nato-naval-exercise-ukraine/
http://www.rt.com/news/313815-russia-china-naval-drills/

 

[lytle78]

I didn't know that Kiwis were such noisy birds. How many forum handles are you going to use.

You really seem to have a fixation about this. Welcome to it.

Your dislike for First Texas is noted. If you ever get to the U.S., I suggest you stop off in El Paso and visit the factory where about 250 people have good jobs building American products. Sorry you don't like that.

P.S. - I,put my name on my posts.

 

[lytle78]

Just re-read my above post.

One clarification. I picked the "handle" lytle78 years ago before I figured out that if you aren't willing to be known by your right name, then you souldn't expect to be taken seriously.

Since there were posts going back a number of years with the handle, I didn't want to abandon that. I just added my name.