Understanding Outlaw's no motion all metal

[wishfish]

I'm wondering if I have an issue with my Outlaw's non motion all metal mode. Whenever I put myself in no motion all metal the threshold increases until you cannot distinguish out a signal. When I detune it on a target it seems to work fine, but when there is no target under the coil, or when I'm holding it still in the air, the threshold keeps increasing until it's blasting in my headphones. Sometimes this happens slowly and sometimes in only a couple seconds. If I want to search non motion, I will have to hit the retune button very often, have it detuned on something, or have the threshold turned way down. With proper ground balance and low hum threshold it seems to be useful only to quickly pinpoint and not search in. Maybe this is the intended use, I'm not sure.

The threshold for non-motion also seems to increase while in disc mode as well. If I half press the retune button to enter non motion, I can hear that the threshold has increased and needs to be retuned. I'm not sure if this is affecting my disc mode threshold. From what I can tell it seems like it's not.

 

[Picketwire]

Non motion on any detector will drift and have to be retuned at some point. The coil should be held above the ground and retuned by pushing the button or flipping the switch to non motion before changing to discrimination, lowering the coil to the ground and continuing the search. Otherwise the detector may be detuned to the ground and depth will suffer. When you retune on a target to make it smaller, you also make your discrimination target smaller. Holding the coil above the ground and hitting retune puts everything back in tune, giving you back the lost depth in disc mode. Check it out yourself; raise your coil to see how deep the detector will sound off on a target, then pinpoint in non motion by retuning to make the target smaller. Switch back to disc mode and see how much depth you have lost. Then retune in the air and see the depth come back. I hope that helps! I love my Outlaw.

 

[wishfish]

Non motion on any detector will drift and have to be retuned at some point. The coil should be held above the ground and retuned by pushing the button or flipping the switch to non motion before changing to discrimination, lowering the coil to the ground and continuing the search. Otherwise the detector may be detuned to the ground and depth will suffer. When you retune on a target to make it smaller, you also make your discrimination target smaller. Holding the coil above the ground and hitting retune puts everything back in tune, giving you back the lost depth in disc mode. Check it out yourself; raise your coil to see how deep the detector will sound off on a target, then pinpoint in non motion by retuning to make the target smaller. Switch back to disc mode and see how much depth you have lost. Then retune in the air and see the depth come back. I hope that helps! I love my Outlaw.

I understand that concept and have no problems with performance in disc mode seemingly. The strange thing is in the no motion mode where it seems to be drifting into an overload when I’m not moving the detector. The way I’m kind of thinking about it now is that the presence of the threshold tone in the no motion all metal mode is fooling the detector into locking in on that tone like it’s a target. Or maybe the small fluctuations with emi is making that happen. Not sure if that’s the way it works. I’m just trying to convince myself that there is nothing wrong.

 

[Picketwire]

When my Nokta Impact is in non motion, it does the same thing and gives an indication on the screen. My Tejon, DFX and F75 all drift in non motion and have to be retuned. There is nothing "fooling" them, that is just the way they work. The DFX has a self adjusting threshold (SAT) that can be used to retune automatically at different speeds, making it motion all metal, but when set at 0, that is no SAT and therefore no motion, it will drift in the air just like your Outlaw. Also I am sure you will find a loss of depth if you do not retune after using non motion.

 

[Picketwire]

From the Fisher F75 manual:
Retuning: The audio threshold will slowly drift when searching in this mode. If you
move quickly between temperature environments, such as from shade to sun, audio
threshold may drift more rapidly until the searchcoil temperature stabilizes. When
the audio threshold drifts in this fashion, pull the trigger back momentarily to
retune the detector. You will need to retune periodically when searching in this
mode.

From the Whites DFX manual:
Without S.A.T. SPEED (a setting of 0), changes in
the ground (and the passage of time) will tend to
produce changes in the THRESHOLD sound. The
TRIGGER will have to be squeezed and released
repeatedly to maintain the THRESHOLD. This is
particularly noticeable in non-discriminate modes,
although S.A.T. SPEED will also tend to add
stability to discriminate modes. S.A.T. SPEEDs
1 through 10 will automatically correct for such
THRESHOLD changes.

From the Nokta Impact manual:
Changes in theground and temperature may lead to drifts in the threshold. Threshold drifts will be reflected
in the ID scale either in the positive way (right side) or the negative way (left side). The device
may emit an audible response in the positive drifts but not in the negative ones. When the
threshold drifts, pull the trigger once to retune the detector. Retuning periodically while
searching in this mode is recommended.

 

[wishfish]

From the Fisher F75 manual:
Retuning: The audio threshold will slowly drift when searching in this mode. If you
move quickly between temperature environments, such as from shade to sun, audio
threshold may drift more rapidly until the searchcoil temperature stabilizes. When
the audio threshold drifts in this fashion, pull the trigger back momentarily to
retune the detector. You will need to retune periodically when searching in this
mode.

From the Whites DFX manual:
Without S.A.T. SPEED (a setting of 0), changes in
the ground (and the passage of time) will tend to
produce changes in the THRESHOLD sound. The
TRIGGER will have to be squeezed and released
repeatedly to maintain the THRESHOLD. This is
particularly noticeable in non-discriminate modes,
although S.A.T. SPEED will also tend to add
stability to discriminate modes. S.A.T. SPEEDs
1 through 10 will automatically correct for such
THRESHOLD changes.

From the Nokta Impact manual:
Changes in theground and temperature may lead to drifts in the threshold. Threshold drifts will be reflected
in the ID scale either in the positive way (right side) or the negative way (left side). The device
may emit an audible response in the positive drifts but not in the negative ones. When the
threshold drifts, pull the trigger once to retune the detector. Retuning periodically while
searching in this mode is recommended.

Thanks so much for this info.

 

[Picketwire]

You are most welcome.

 

[vito]

Hello. Sorry for chiming in. I do not have an Outlaw, so I had to read the manual. And what I read there in section Air Test - Self-Guided Tutorial Introduction ... / Step 7 ...ff should it be the retune button is a 2-function button? Pressed fully down is different than pressed only part of the way!? Should be helpful in not detuning a target.

 

[Picketwire]

Pushing all the way in, is retune, half way is no motion. The way I use it in disc is to find a target. push half way to determine size, push retune to shrink the target size, dig or reject based on what I hear and then make sure to push the retune button again in the air before continuing. I like to hunt wide open areas with the switch in no motion and push retune button to maintain the threshold and to shrink the size to center the object. No motion is deep, detects farther outside the coil and gives a very good indication of how large the target is. The top of a pop can can sound good in disc but screams "BIG" in no motion.