hi all new here. looking for help ive used the dfx daily for over a year now and found so much gold i had to buy the v3i [dfx paid for it self the v3i and then some!] ive pushed the dfx to the stable limit.! [preamp 4 ac 76 on heavey mineralized iron infested maine beaches] problem is conductive salt . i just got the v3i and did some some snowbank tests with the stock coil and my dfx 10x12sef v3i,sef off to the beach started off down by the low tide line in the STOCK salt beach program gb'ed and was getting lots of +1 to +10 salt response , ok hot out the box right? dropped gain and ac no help [salt falsing ] so i tried some surface and buried tests [wet sand] first clad u.s quarter on the surface , -90 -91 ?? till touching coil correlate hit fine. none of v3i filters,hot rock,bottle cap or anything helped much. defective v3i? sweep speed is #1 setting for high beach sens on dfx!! [amp 4 sens 76 3 filter sweep 20 smooth]missing on v3i, anyone heard of this? v3i should be better right?? ! help!
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v3i salt beach problems!?
- Thread starter kyledfx
- Start date
Larry (IL)
Well-known member
The beach hunters will chime in with some advice, but what I remember, many said the conical 950 (Stock DFX) coil works a lot better on salt beaches. You didn't say what you dropped the sensitivity down to, but don't be afraid to go as low as 2 or 3 to get stability and work your way up from there.
the 950 on the dfx works smooth on the beach, but the 10x12sef with proper settings is far superior with depth,target i.d, and coverage but salt falses without raising sweep speed to buffer the ground filtration[lower filter with higher sweep gets almost twice the depth and target i.d. then the 950] and no surface wrap around the v3i seems to give raw 22.5 vdi data as thats the only frequency that wraps on search screen . it behaves like the dfx in 14khz only mode. is it possible the salt subtraction method[factory] could malfunction ? it seems to be adding at least twice the salt response to the vdi target data. also in air tests max distance targets will generate a accurate vdi but no tone,just smooth thershold. hope to hear from some beach guys that know how to get the most from thier machines. so far this v3i seems to be a poorly functioning unit. i will talk to whites today and let you guys know what happens. for the price this thing should hunt circles around the dfx's old technolgy..
Larry (IL)
Well-known member
Don't compare the two detectors, they do not operate the same and the V3i software is all new from the ground up. You will have to learn the V3i on it's own merits and the the V3i does in fact hunt circles around the DFX. You can do a search for past beach hunting tips, there have been many including using the 950 on salt beaches, the lack of depth did not seem to be a problem.
kyledfx said:
There is your problem right there. The SEF coils are not completely compatible with the 22.5 frequency of the v3i. Do a search on it...... Some will work others will not, the coils are not v-nulled.
You will not get double the depth with this coil compared to the stock d2. You may gain a half an inch on dimes.
The 22.5 is wrapping and giving you a threshold hum. You are pretty much overloading the coil.
ok back home . beach d2 test wet sand stock salt beach program, surface u.s.clad quarter : vdi 84 no wrap around so good so far, buried about 6 in : no signal at all filter change no effect,settings for reapeteable signal and pinpoint : rx 14 tx boost on disc 95 am 100 filter 10 high for repeteable +35 vdi. as for needing depth i hunt in winter and most finds are in washed in gravel layers between 2 and 10 inches. 4 in. is fine for fresh summer drops but not winter. as for comparison to dfx i realize the v is a new platform but test results are very simalar between v and d2 and dfx 950 the differance with the sef is very simalar also except the dfx doesnt wrap and the sweep setting removes salt response, yes very different beasts. so it looks like i need a bigger whites coil to get the performance im used to, great like the v didnt cost enough already. will have to wait for ground to thaw for land tests. also im not trying to bash the v just giving real world results to try to help others.
kyledfx said:
I can find quarters at around 10" on a regular basis at my beach. The vdi will not always (rarely
) be accurate at those depths though. I have a couple of beaches with iron mineralization and for those I us my Whites DF.What you will find with the v3i is that it is a gold and brass magnet. Those mid vdi's hit deep and the detector is very sensitive to this range.
Since you just got it I would suggest trying the different filters and the salt setting. You will find that you can dial it into its surroundings unlike any other detector, meaning no other legal to own vlf can achieve the overall optimum detective abilities like the v3i. If there was another one I would have kept it.
I was entirely frustrated with mine the first week. Now almost a year later I wonder how I ever detected without it.
SEF needs to get with it and get an aftermarket coil that is v-nulled.
cool thanks burlbark, will test some gold ,clad isnt my target metal anyway just the most common. do you mean turning off the salt settings? i didnt try that. going from 10band to 10high helped. the df didnt go deep for gold for me anyway. gold air tests with the v looked promising though. thanks again, any and all imput welcome. h.h
ok new revalation correlate with wrap at -90 span 40 seems to work really well for depth and target id . the problem i was having before seems to be 22.5 reads dominant on just my wet salt sand and all deep targets i think my falseing was caused by this. 3 frequency salt just doesnt work at my beach.
ok guys helpme out here,new test today: dry beach sand ground probe vdi -94 frequencys 178 177 24 , 6in buried quarter +94 to -94 6in buried nickel +89 !!!?? also dug a pulltab at about 6in +89 !!!?? also home in my yard ground probe vdi -94 with same frequency degrees after zeroing probe can someone help, still dont think this machine is operating correctley.
Larry (IL)
Well-known member
Here is a quote from Anne, (White's) on Ground Probe signals that she made last year. If you think your V is out of calibration, I would get it to a service center and get it check out, you are only out the shipping fee and turn around time is usually a week or less.
Larry asked me to chime in here. So here goes...
The detector only reports VDIs converted from positive phase angles (0 to 180 degrees). The negative angles aren't valid assuming that the machine is calibrated correctly. In the ground probe screen, you may see negative angles if you are holding the coil in the air so there is no real signal coming in - just noise, or you haven't zeroed it first. Once you zero the machine and lower it to the ground, or read your target, your phase angles should come in between 0 and +180 (as with anything there will be exceptions - ground conditions, noise, what have you). A ferrite bead will come in very close to 180 degrees (-95 VDI) which is close to where most normal ground comes in and pure conductors will come in around 0 degrees (+95 VDI). Salt water (wet beach, or fields with lots of fertilizer and wet) comes in close to 90 degrees (0 VDI). Approximate numbers.
Jeff Foster's diagram shows the VDI's. Relating angles to it, -95 VDI = 180 degrees, and +95 = 0degrees. 0 to -180 degrees are invalid (note my caveat above...)
I see that the V's angles are reversed from one of the charts here. I was taught these angles when I got here, so that's how we got these angles in the V. It's really rather arbitrary on the axis orientation. It could easily have been 0 = ferrite and 180 = a silver dollar (or thereabouts). It's just a matter of how you define your axis - it sounds like Carl has defined his opposite to V's from what Larry said. I really only mentioned it since the ground probe screen has the angles set up as I described.
Larry asked me to chime in here. So here goes...
The detector only reports VDIs converted from positive phase angles (0 to 180 degrees). The negative angles aren't valid assuming that the machine is calibrated correctly. In the ground probe screen, you may see negative angles if you are holding the coil in the air so there is no real signal coming in - just noise, or you haven't zeroed it first. Once you zero the machine and lower it to the ground, or read your target, your phase angles should come in between 0 and +180 (as with anything there will be exceptions - ground conditions, noise, what have you). A ferrite bead will come in very close to 180 degrees (-95 VDI) which is close to where most normal ground comes in and pure conductors will come in around 0 degrees (+95 VDI). Salt water (wet beach, or fields with lots of fertilizer and wet) comes in close to 90 degrees (0 VDI). Approximate numbers.
Jeff Foster's diagram shows the VDI's. Relating angles to it, -95 VDI = 180 degrees, and +95 = 0degrees. 0 to -180 degrees are invalid (note my caveat above...)
I see that the V's angles are reversed from one of the charts here. I was taught these angles when I got here, so that's how we got these angles in the V. It's really rather arbitrary on the axis orientation. It could easily have been 0 = ferrite and 180 = a silver dollar (or thereabouts). It's just a matter of how you define your axis - it sounds like Carl has defined his opposite to V's from what Larry said. I really only mentioned it since the ground probe screen has the angles set up as I described.
Larry (IL)
Well-known member
You can try calling Kellyco, but they would probably refer you back to White's. This is probably your best contact in the East:
3. White's East
Service Center
Centreville Electronics
9437 Main Street
Manassas, Virginia 20110
(88
645-0202
(703) 367-7999
(703) 367-0868 FAX
bob@cwrelics.com
I would send your coil in too and call service first and they might have you do some tests first.
3. White's East
Service Center
Centreville Electronics
9437 Main Street
Manassas, Virginia 20110
(88
645-0202(703) 367-7999
(703) 367-0868 FAX
bob@cwrelics.com
I would send your coil in too and call service first and they might have you do some tests first.
Hi Kyledfx,
I am still new to metal detecting being involved in it for just over a year now. I started with the V3i and have made over 90 beach hunts (I mainly beach hunt). I am still learning the V3i and really have no comparison to give you. Other than what I have learned on the V3i. I to am very interested in knowing how to better tune my detector. What I can do is inform you on what I currently tune my detector to. So here it goes.
NOTE; you will be required to make small changes when going from Dry sand, hardpan, and standing water. I try, (emphasis on try) not to go into the surf to much because of the price of the V3i.
- Salt Beach, program
- salt compensate, ON
-Turn off auto track, (in wet sand you will have to g.b. constantly) in set sand only once every 20 min. or so.
- Disc. Accept from at least -10 to +95 (VDIs change drastically in the wet sand). BUT, I have noticed that rings of value will only change slightly.
- 10 high pass,(I have a quick wide sweep, I assume the swing would be much slower in water)
- recovery speed between 70 to 80 (usually at 70)
- bottle cap and hot rock set to 0.
- RX gain, In dry sand you can crank it up, in the wet sand you will have to lower it a lot.(I have still found good stuff very deep with RX as low as 4).
- I believe I have mine on wrap.
- I try to leave my all metal and disc. as high as possible around 90.
- Offsets, still working with these, but currently I will adjust these - or + when the salt water starts to make my detector chirp a lot.
Can't think of anything else at the moment. But if I do I will be sure to post. Have to run through settings to check.
I hope this may help a little.
And please if you figure any thing out please let me know. I'm still looking for better settings myself.
Ferd
I am still new to metal detecting being involved in it for just over a year now. I started with the V3i and have made over 90 beach hunts (I mainly beach hunt). I am still learning the V3i and really have no comparison to give you. Other than what I have learned on the V3i. I to am very interested in knowing how to better tune my detector. What I can do is inform you on what I currently tune my detector to. So here it goes.
NOTE; you will be required to make small changes when going from Dry sand, hardpan, and standing water. I try, (emphasis on try) not to go into the surf to much because of the price of the V3i.
- Salt Beach, program
- salt compensate, ON
-Turn off auto track, (in wet sand you will have to g.b. constantly) in set sand only once every 20 min. or so.
- Disc. Accept from at least -10 to +95 (VDIs change drastically in the wet sand). BUT, I have noticed that rings of value will only change slightly.
- 10 high pass,(I have a quick wide sweep, I assume the swing would be much slower in water)
- recovery speed between 70 to 80 (usually at 70)
- bottle cap and hot rock set to 0.
- RX gain, In dry sand you can crank it up, in the wet sand you will have to lower it a lot.(I have still found good stuff very deep with RX as low as 4).
- I believe I have mine on wrap.
- I try to leave my all metal and disc. as high as possible around 90.
- Offsets, still working with these, but currently I will adjust these - or + when the salt water starts to make my detector chirp a lot.
Can't think of anything else at the moment. But if I do I will be sure to post. Have to run through settings to check.
I hope this may help a little.
And please if you figure any thing out please let me know. I'm still looking for better settings myself.
Ferd
thanks for the imput, could you tell me if your v wraps a surface quarter to iron down by the tide line in salt frequency non correlate and also what a 6in modern pulltab or nickel reads up in the dry sand to cross check my machine? once i get my machine strait i will post programs. if you could do these tests and post back it would be a huge help to me also ur dry sand ground probe readings [tracking >zoom] thanks again.
I currently have correlate on. So I will perform these tests next trip to the beach. Which will be in the next day or two, and post back. But currently, on wet sand a quarter will read between 80 to 85 when more than 4" deep. On dry sand it will be a perfect 83 every time. BUT when you pinpoint, your 2.5 khz will be very dominant. This will tell you it is good to dig.
Pull tabs in the dry or wet sand can vary so much. BUT your standard NON broken or twisted pulltab will read between 21 and 23 in the dry sand. And in the wet sand the VDI will change alot depending on depth. I have had the VDIs change between every scoop of sand that I get closer to a pulltab.
Because of this I dig everything at the beach. And there has been more than a few times that I was pleasently surprised when I thought I was digging a pulltab or bottlecap. The pinpoint screen helps alot here. If all bars are hitting about equal. You can be almost positive it will be a PT or BC. BUT if one bar seems to be hitting much harder than it is something else.
Last week I dug up a silver ring which I was thinking was going to be a PT. Had the same jumpy VDI numbers as a PT but when pinpointed. The 2.5khz was hitting a good bit harder. So it made me a bit more curious.
Ferd
Pull tabs in the dry or wet sand can vary so much. BUT your standard NON broken or twisted pulltab will read between 21 and 23 in the dry sand. And in the wet sand the VDI will change alot depending on depth. I have had the VDIs change between every scoop of sand that I get closer to a pulltab.
Because of this I dig everything at the beach. And there has been more than a few times that I was pleasently surprised when I thought I was digging a pulltab or bottlecap. The pinpoint screen helps alot here. If all bars are hitting about equal. You can be almost positive it will be a PT or BC. BUT if one bar seems to be hitting much harder than it is something else.
Last week I dug up a silver ring which I was thinking was going to be a PT. Had the same jumpy VDI numbers as a PT but when pinpointed. The 2.5khz was hitting a good bit harder. So it made me a bit more curious.
Ferd
cool thanks for the imput! starting to think im wrong about my machine having problems. i think you guys were right all along , redid last test with dfx and the v3i won, i think i was just expecting too much [dfx missed both targets!] thank you all for helping with my rocky transition! [found 1891 seated dime in culvert tear out in awful emi and hot rocky beach gravel the d nothing but noise!] thanks again.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Larry (IL) said:You can try calling Kellyco, but they would probably refer you back to White's. This is probably your best contact in the East:
3. White's East
Service Center
Centreville Electronics
9437 Main Street
Manassas, Virginia 20110
(88
(703) 367-7999
(703) 367-0868 FAX
bob@cwrelics.com
I would send your coil in too and call service first and they might have you do some tests first.
Let me know if I can help! Happy to point you to the right person to help! Good luck!