C
calabash digger
Guest
Head to head depth shootout.....
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Vanquish 540, Simple ,and Apex depth shootout! Who is King??
. I like the ratty sounding machines. Minelab sounds like it speaks proper English and that ain’t me!!!
Tot Lot Bandit
Well-known member
Simplex sounds like it hits the targets better than the Equinox...lol
C
calabash digger
Guest
Minelab Language tells you more about what is down there.....Simplex is a great detector for the money....We are getting way more for our money these days....
Well, John, you closed that video with a question: "You tell me folks." So I'll comment. Not telling YOU anything specific, just directing my comments to the general observation and discussion. In your video above, you did clearly state at the start that this was a "depth test" so that set a standard for comparison, and that was good. You should always have a standard for any test in order to compare performance, an in this case you have the same buried targets at the described depths so that keeps everything fair. Great!
Then you compare three detectors, and here's where some things differ. For one, the search coils sizes are not the same and to be fair one would think they could be just to even the odds. Second, the settings used were not the same nor described for each model. That is an important topic as well because some detectors have issues with performance in some settings that the operator can't control. here I am referring to the Vanquish 540 which I have been discussing on forums since I bought my first V-540 Pro Pack and checked it out. I'm discussing some of these things with Minelab as well. But the Simplex + and Apex both feature Ground balance control to eliminate that issue when searching in an All Metal Accept or so-called Zero Discriminate mode.
Naturally, another topic readers and viewers wonder about is the operating frequency, and here I noted some errors in your video above. In your first video of the Apex and Equinox 800 you only compared the Multi-IQ and Multi-Flex SMF functions. Both models do feature selectable Single-Frequency choices and perhaps those should have also been checked out on your 'depth test' video. In the above three-model comparison the V-540 is Multi-IQ ONLY, the Apex is SMF but also has Single-Frequency options, and that might have made it fair because the Simplex + is a single 12 kHz operating frequency. And it performed quite well and didn't need SMF to achieve the results it showed.
You mentioned the Apex didn't perform well at 20 kHz but we didn't see you use 20 kHz. The turn-on default frequency of the Apex is 15 kHz and I have used that frequency at several sites where i had slightly better performance than in MF. Additionally, you must have broken the Minelab secrets became you said the Vanquish 540 worked at 40 kHz. Really? Where did you fish that one up? Yes, your Equinox 800 allows you to select that single frequency, but the Vanquish 540 is a Multi-IQ, SMF function only and Minelab has not stated which couple of frequencies they are using in the Multi-IQ function of the Equinox or Vanquish, and I believe they are a bit different.
So my suggestion to you or any reader who wants to do a video, please clarify the purpose of the video comparison, such as the above where it was stated as a 'depth test' on the already buried test targets. That would be good. Th describe the modes and settings used, the operating frequencies compared, and try to match the different detectors up as close as possible, in modes, settings and coil choices, just to even the playing field of the comparisons. And if, such as in the above video, one model is a Single-Frequency and performs well, as the Simplex + did, it might be good to select some of the available Single Frequencies on those models that provide them as well, as SMF operation. It just seem to make it a more fair and educational detector performance comparison.
And then, once finished describing the test, the detector's set-up, and doing the side-by-side comparisons, I strongly suggest it would be wise to be positive. Simply explain why you prefer one or two models and want them in your personal outfit. If another detector or two don't please you, fine, but just state the positives of why you do like what you choose-to-use. Stay off of a bitch-and-moan soap-box where you rant-and-rave and tell folks another model is a piece of crap or junk and go on-and-on about what you think is negative about it.
There are some detectors out there that I am not impressed with at all, and quite a few of them I have bought and parted with because they just were not right for me and my wants and needs. There are some that are very [popular, such as the Fisher F-19 and Teknetics G2+, that is also now used in the Bounty Hunter Time Range Pro, and I have owned four of the F-19's. I wanted to keep trying to see if there was something I missed or if perhaps they might have a fit in my Detector Team. They don't. i just don't like them that much for several reasons, but I don't call them a piece of crap. I know folks who use them and I have some friends who really like theirs. Great! I'm glad they do, just as I am glad a lot of people like other models I am not thrilled with.
I own and use and like some detectors that others might not care for, such as my two Apex models. One is waiting for Garrett tp get a smaller coil on the market, but the Apex does [provide some very good in-the-field performance for me, and the bulk of the places i hunt are not where you can achieve any sort of 'depth' because here is too much debris that impedes depth ability due to masking. But the Apex, considering it isn't a small enough coil, is doing a decent job of separation and unmasking that it makes it useful for me. So are my two Simplex + devices, one with the round 11" DD and the most used sporting the 5X9½ DD. And I have several other makes and models with favored search coils mounted for use in an assortment of site environments or to help in some very mineralized environments, too.
And Yes, in my group of favorite detectors I do have and enjoy using my Minelab Vanquish 540, usually with the 5X8 DD mounted but also using the 9X12 Dd for hunting some of the open areas like plowed fields or pastureland. A great value for the V-540 Pro Pack with both coils and wireless headphones, and it is one of my Daily-Use Team detectors that I keep in my vehicle to be at-the-ready. Still not a 'perfect' detector made so I just pick-and-choose which detectors I happen to like and enjoy having fun using them. That means there are a lot of detectors out there that don't interest me enough for others to consider, and I'm not about to tell anyone they are wrong in their decision or a particular model isn't any good. They all have their abilities and some are going to be 'just right' for a lot of people.
Be positive, be selective for your needs, and have 'fun'. That's really what this great sport is all about. In this video example, I own all three models, I like all three models, I just might grab certain ones when I feel they are going to work to my advantage. 'Depth' isn't always what I want or need, but I'm prepared when I do.
Monte
Then you compare three detectors, and here's where some things differ. For one, the search coils sizes are not the same and to be fair one would think they could be just to even the odds. Second, the settings used were not the same nor described for each model. That is an important topic as well because some detectors have issues with performance in some settings that the operator can't control. here I am referring to the Vanquish 540 which I have been discussing on forums since I bought my first V-540 Pro Pack and checked it out. I'm discussing some of these things with Minelab as well. But the Simplex + and Apex both feature Ground balance control to eliminate that issue when searching in an All Metal Accept or so-called Zero Discriminate mode.
Naturally, another topic readers and viewers wonder about is the operating frequency, and here I noted some errors in your video above. In your first video of the Apex and Equinox 800 you only compared the Multi-IQ and Multi-Flex SMF functions. Both models do feature selectable Single-Frequency choices and perhaps those should have also been checked out on your 'depth test' video. In the above three-model comparison the V-540 is Multi-IQ ONLY, the Apex is SMF but also has Single-Frequency options, and that might have made it fair because the Simplex + is a single 12 kHz operating frequency. And it performed quite well and didn't need SMF to achieve the results it showed.
You mentioned the Apex didn't perform well at 20 kHz but we didn't see you use 20 kHz. The turn-on default frequency of the Apex is 15 kHz and I have used that frequency at several sites where i had slightly better performance than in MF. Additionally, you must have broken the Minelab secrets became you said the Vanquish 540 worked at 40 kHz. Really? Where did you fish that one up? Yes, your Equinox 800 allows you to select that single frequency, but the Vanquish 540 is a Multi-IQ, SMF function only and Minelab has not stated which couple of frequencies they are using in the Multi-IQ function of the Equinox or Vanquish, and I believe they are a bit different.
So my suggestion to you or any reader who wants to do a video, please clarify the purpose of the video comparison, such as the above where it was stated as a 'depth test' on the already buried test targets. That would be good. Th describe the modes and settings used, the operating frequencies compared, and try to match the different detectors up as close as possible, in modes, settings and coil choices, just to even the playing field of the comparisons. And if, such as in the above video, one model is a Single-Frequency and performs well, as the Simplex + did, it might be good to select some of the available Single Frequencies on those models that provide them as well, as SMF operation. It just seem to make it a more fair and educational detector performance comparison.
And then, once finished describing the test, the detector's set-up, and doing the side-by-side comparisons, I strongly suggest it would be wise to be positive. Simply explain why you prefer one or two models and want them in your personal outfit. If another detector or two don't please you, fine, but just state the positives of why you do like what you choose-to-use. Stay off of a bitch-and-moan soap-box where you rant-and-rave and tell folks another model is a piece of crap or junk and go on-and-on about what you think is negative about it.
There are some detectors out there that I am not impressed with at all, and quite a few of them I have bought and parted with because they just were not right for me and my wants and needs. There are some that are very [popular, such as the Fisher F-19 and Teknetics G2+, that is also now used in the Bounty Hunter Time Range Pro, and I have owned four of the F-19's. I wanted to keep trying to see if there was something I missed or if perhaps they might have a fit in my Detector Team. They don't. i just don't like them that much for several reasons, but I don't call them a piece of crap. I know folks who use them and I have some friends who really like theirs. Great! I'm glad they do, just as I am glad a lot of people like other models I am not thrilled with.
I own and use and like some detectors that others might not care for, such as my two Apex models. One is waiting for Garrett tp get a smaller coil on the market, but the Apex does [provide some very good in-the-field performance for me, and the bulk of the places i hunt are not where you can achieve any sort of 'depth' because here is too much debris that impedes depth ability due to masking. But the Apex, considering it isn't a small enough coil, is doing a decent job of separation and unmasking that it makes it useful for me. So are my two Simplex + devices, one with the round 11" DD and the most used sporting the 5X9½ DD. And I have several other makes and models with favored search coils mounted for use in an assortment of site environments or to help in some very mineralized environments, too.
And Yes, in my group of favorite detectors I do have and enjoy using my Minelab Vanquish 540, usually with the 5X8 DD mounted but also using the 9X12 Dd for hunting some of the open areas like plowed fields or pastureland. A great value for the V-540 Pro Pack with both coils and wireless headphones, and it is one of my Daily-Use Team detectors that I keep in my vehicle to be at-the-ready. Still not a 'perfect' detector made so I just pick-and-choose which detectors I happen to like and enjoy having fun using them. That means there are a lot of detectors out there that don't interest me enough for others to consider, and I'm not about to tell anyone they are wrong in their decision or a particular model isn't any good. They all have their abilities and some are going to be 'just right' for a lot of people.
Be positive, be selective for your needs, and have 'fun'. That's really what this great sport is all about. In this video example, I own all three models, I like all three models, I just might grab certain ones when I feel they are going to work to my advantage. 'Depth' isn't always what I want or need, but I'm prepared when I do.
Monte
C
calabash digger
Guest
Monte the Vanquish runs the same freq width as the Equinox.....it is called multi IQ same exact tech in Vanquish per Minelab Engineer from down under. Now whether those algorithms are weighted toward the lower end or higher is a guess but not really....Jewelry would be weighted at the higher end and coins at the lower. Notice though it really doesnt matter either one of those programs will smack the gold coin....where the Apex is silent.....Is the Apex even really processing a multi freq from 5 to 20??? To me does not really act like it is....hence the gold coin test where it is silent.... Wait a minute I will get you a video posted Monte to help with your questions..
Yes, the Equinox and Vanquish are a Multi-IQ design, however, from what I heard from 'down-under' they are not Multi-IQ'ing with the same frequencies. Also, the Equinox, for readers to to this model, is not working at all those Single-Frequencies when in Multi-IQ. Minelab DOES tell you which Single-Frequencies you are able to select for special-use application, but they do NOT divulge the frequencies they are using when in Multi-IQ. That, John, is why i said you can't claim the Vanquish was working at 40 kHz.
In defense of the Garrett Apex, I have found it to work quite well for quite a few places I like to hunt, and for me it is one of the models I like to have in my ample supply of workable detectors. I think it will be an even better model when they get a smaller-size coil out for it for trashier sites. I have also had better success with it and my Simplex + using the 5X9½ DD in some iron nail challenged sites and a few other ferrous and non-ferrous sites when it came to recovery speed, aka separation, compared with my Vanquish 540 using the 5X8 DD or the Equinox w/6" DD. However, I have not claimed it to be one of my deeper-seeking detectors as that's not one of its strengths. When going after coins in places where i know them to be deep, and 'deep' to me is typically anything in the 6"+ range, I grab a different detector.
Most of the deeper coins i have encountered in over half-a-century of looking fall in the 6" to 8" or 9" range. Those are honest, measured depths at target location. I have found some deeper, but very few and very seldom. Most average hunt sites Hobbyists work are not frequently disturbed and there is little reason for lost coins and other small-objects going to be found deeper than surface to 3"-4". And when i relate my experiences as a more Avid Detectorist who has concentrated on ghost towns, homesteads, pioneer and military encampments, logging and mining camps, stage stops and many other out-of-the-way and long out-of-use places ... coins, trade tokens, buttons, uniform insignia, and countless other desirableness are not that deep. Most anymore are getting tough to find due to good-target masking and we need to be able to deal with that.
But I have spotted, either fully-exposed or partially, Seated Liberty Dimes and Quarters to 1853, Indian Heads, Shield and 'V' Nickels, military buttons and insignia, bullets and cartridge cases and more desired targets ... just eyeballed them as well as got a detector hit, far more than all of the similar-size and types targets from 10" or deeper in natural, undisturbed surroundings. The only time I am anticipating deeper targets is when I have access to hunt plowed fields (like the season we'r now in) at harvest time, or other situations where there has been a lot of ground disturbance. For those applications, unless Garrett makes a better coil for depth, the Apex isn't my pick. Other applications, it works fine.
As for the gold coin, Yes, I am interested in how the Apex might perform at the selected Single Frequencies. But I also don't anticipate it doing all that well because you have the gold coin buried down there a ways, and, as I stated, I don't claim the Apex to be a depth monster. It is a darn good detector for a lot of people and a lot of uses. It's not that impressive in depth comparisons. I found that out early-on and you show it in your videos. But I have my V-540 and Simplex + and a number of other detectors that easily get me the in-the-field depth I want when practical.
I'm only curious how the Apex will do on the gold coin at 20 kHz or other single frequencies. How knows, it might hit it or it might not. No biggie. If it does, fine,. That tells us something. If it doesn't, okay, we all learn something there as well. All it means is for that type of site condition you only need to grab the detector and coil set-up you like and can trust and go have fun. My Apex, by the way, has hit well on both small silver and gold jewelry. Not a gold coin, and not as deep, but at the park environment, it worked just fine.
Monte
I really like the Equinox, Vanquish and Simplex detectors. I look forward to trying out Nokta Makro's simultaneous multi frequency version of the Simplex as soon as it becomes available.
I have only tried the Apex in the field for a short time on a group hunt. It was okay as an SMF detector but definitely was a bit slow on target separation and recovery speed and lacks some punch in higher mineralization. It looks fantastic and the ergonomics are excellent. Operationally it reminded me a bit like the Whites DFX in multi but faster.
I believe (as Monte said there is not and probably never will be any proof of this from Minelab while patents for Multi IQ are in effect) that there is only one Multi IQ simultaneous multi frequency mixture being used on the Vanquish and that the recovery speed is slightly different for each detecting mode. The reason I say this is that I get almost exactly the same ground feedback characteristics in higher mineralization no matter what mode I use - relic, coin, jewelry or custom. Monte has talked about ground balance issues already with the Vanquish's somewhat fixed ground balance setting causing ground feedback in higher mineralization. So, whether 40 kHz is included as one of the frequencies on the Vanquish Multi IQ mixture for me is doubtful. It is not very sensitive to really small gold in the .1 gram or less range. Also, it works great in salt water no matter what mode I use so I am going to guess that it is using something similar to Beach 1 on the Equinox which is not one of the Equinox's hotter modes. Just my opinion with no proof except for my experiences with the Vanquish.
I have only tried the Apex in the field for a short time on a group hunt. It was okay as an SMF detector but definitely was a bit slow on target separation and recovery speed and lacks some punch in higher mineralization. It looks fantastic and the ergonomics are excellent. Operationally it reminded me a bit like the Whites DFX in multi but faster.
I believe (as Monte said there is not and probably never will be any proof of this from Minelab while patents for Multi IQ are in effect) that there is only one Multi IQ simultaneous multi frequency mixture being used on the Vanquish and that the recovery speed is slightly different for each detecting mode. The reason I say this is that I get almost exactly the same ground feedback characteristics in higher mineralization no matter what mode I use - relic, coin, jewelry or custom. Monte has talked about ground balance issues already with the Vanquish's somewhat fixed ground balance setting causing ground feedback in higher mineralization. So, whether 40 kHz is included as one of the frequencies on the Vanquish Multi IQ mixture for me is doubtful. It is not very sensitive to really small gold in the .1 gram or less range. Also, it works great in salt water no matter what mode I use so I am going to guess that it is using something similar to Beach 1 on the Equinox which is not one of the Equinox's hotter modes. Just my opinion with no proof except for my experiences with the Vanquish.
C
calabash digger
Guest
Its Hotter than the beach mode in test garden imo but I could be wrong .....As for Montes Multi IQ comment look at the chart in the owners manual.....It is true some of the algorithm s in the programs focus on the higher end or lower ...Park 1 and park2 are good examples....Park 1 deep silver Park 2 hotter on gold....
However it runs does not really matter BECAUSE Minelabs design blows the Apex away on silver and gold!
However it runs does not really matter BECAUSE Minelabs design blows the Apex away on silver and gold!
Attachments
Iffysignals
New member
Hi all, been a long time since ive been here but just catching up and doing some reading. The Vanquish and the Equinox run the same spectrum of multi IQ. The only difference will be how it is weighted in each program so yes it might be different than the Equinox modes, IE Coin/Park ect.. but they run the same band. Hope that helps.
Mike
C
calabash digger
Guest
The days of people writing something and not having to back it up are DONE with the rise of social media....Its not like the old days when a company could release a detector and a few of the elites could write a few reviews for the treasure magazines and the detector flock in masses would race out to buy it. Youtube and Facebook have changed the way detectors are reviewed because it puts it in the hands of the common folk who payed for it with their hard earned money to give real user reviews.
I reach 6000 thousand people every time I post a video and have 30000 views a month on average which is small potatoes compared to some.....I get personal messages all the time from people who thank me for being HONEST about detectors.
By no means am I suggesting that all who promote certain detectors are dishonest. A lot of times they are just plain ignorant of the facts and are just regurgitating what someone else told them.
I understand marketing.....but some of this stuff has went past that to just plain out dishonest practices and I am tired of it.....and MANY others are too.
Monte you have come into my post writing your diatribes for some time now and that is fine you have a right to your opinions.......just remember I actually show the people what I am talking about and I am not just typing something on the screen saying take my word for it because I have been in the game for 55 yrs.... I do have one thing that is eating at me about you I got to ask....
WHY in the world with you being a (iron loaded) ghost town hunter would you sell your ORX and Deus with it being almost common knowledge that those detectors are the best ever made for iron???
Smarter people than me have said as much go read what Tom Danowski said about the Deus in iron....He said it is the BEST....That man should know he worked for Nasa....
A wise man would never tether his cart to a dead horse for a few shillings........
I reach 6000 thousand people every time I post a video and have 30000 views a month on average which is small potatoes compared to some.....I get personal messages all the time from people who thank me for being HONEST about detectors.
By no means am I suggesting that all who promote certain detectors are dishonest. A lot of times they are just plain ignorant of the facts and are just regurgitating what someone else told them.
I understand marketing.....but some of this stuff has went past that to just plain out dishonest practices and I am tired of it.....and MANY others are too.
Monte you have come into my post writing your diatribes for some time now and that is fine you have a right to your opinions.......just remember I actually show the people what I am talking about and I am not just typing something on the screen saying take my word for it because I have been in the game for 55 yrs.... I do have one thing that is eating at me about you I got to ask....
WHY in the world with you being a (iron loaded) ghost town hunter would you sell your ORX and Deus with it being almost common knowledge that those detectors are the best ever made for iron???
Smarter people than me have said as much go read what Tom Danowski said about the Deus in iron....He said it is the BEST....That man should know he worked for Nasa....
A wise man would never tether his cart to a dead horse for a few shillings........
hairymonsterman
Active member
It's been knowledge for some time of the freqs used in each mode in the Equinox, and it does indeed use 40khz (39khz if i remember right) in multi field 2.
Kickindirt
Member
Apex is weak in depth and separation. The single nail a foot away and still would not hit the coin wow! One thing for sure is now days its more machine against machine mostly. Xp and Minelab have proven you can take small coils and make them go deep, larger coils like the 11" and make them separate well. The Apex is like low rent 
when comparing to the rest, even the simplex smoked it in separation and depth. Well at least Garrett made a nice looking machine
when comparing to the rest, even the simplex smoked it in separation and depth. Well at least Garrett made a nice looking machineJust a brief comment on 'testing' and 'videos' and such.
1.. If someone wants to do a video on known buried targets for the purpose of comparing 'depth performance', all they need to do is say so at the start of their video. Doesn't matter who they are, just say this is my 'depth comparison test' and go for it. When concluded, simply state those are the results they get with whatever detectors and coils in their ground, and that's why they selected the detector, or detectors, and coils they like to use. Done!
But there is a lot more to metal detecting and what challenges we face and what different makes and models detectors are capable of doing. None are perfect. Just because they can't quite hit on a coin at an extra half-inch or an inch or so, doesn't really mean they don't have some strong points for Roth applications or for some people to consider for their wants and needs. Just let folks know you like what you like and use what you enjoy using. It's when you take five minutes or more of your video air time to get ugly to rude and nasty telling viewers that such-and-such a product is crap or junk or whatever they think.
2.. And when someone does a video to convey a message about performance, maybe make it a complete test of a detector and/or coil. Don't just make a special set-up on clean ground with a big iron target laying lengthwise on one side and then the other of a non-ferrous sample target and then only sweep lengthwise. Turn 90° or other positions and see how any detector / coil combination can really handle the set-up, and make use of the controls the detector offers to see if there are settings that DO make it work better.
3.. And in the end, if you're making a video or just explaining results in a forum post, just be honest and positive and upbeat about what you use, how you hunt and where you hunt and the results of the equipment. Then, if a detector or coil does not provide the performance hoped for, just let it be known it does or doesn't handle the test and eliminate any negativity. Both about a product, the product maker, and anyone who also likes to voice an honest and positive opinion.
Just my thoughts.
Monte
1.. If someone wants to do a video on known buried targets for the purpose of comparing 'depth performance', all they need to do is say so at the start of their video. Doesn't matter who they are, just say this is my 'depth comparison test' and go for it. When concluded, simply state those are the results they get with whatever detectors and coils in their ground, and that's why they selected the detector, or detectors, and coils they like to use. Done!
But there is a lot more to metal detecting and what challenges we face and what different makes and models detectors are capable of doing. None are perfect. Just because they can't quite hit on a coin at an extra half-inch or an inch or so, doesn't really mean they don't have some strong points for Roth applications or for some people to consider for their wants and needs. Just let folks know you like what you like and use what you enjoy using. It's when you take five minutes or more of your video air time to get ugly to rude and nasty telling viewers that such-and-such a product is crap or junk or whatever they think.
2.. And when someone does a video to convey a message about performance, maybe make it a complete test of a detector and/or coil. Don't just make a special set-up on clean ground with a big iron target laying lengthwise on one side and then the other of a non-ferrous sample target and then only sweep lengthwise. Turn 90° or other positions and see how any detector / coil combination can really handle the set-up, and make use of the controls the detector offers to see if there are settings that DO make it work better.
3.. And in the end, if you're making a video or just explaining results in a forum post, just be honest and positive and upbeat about what you use, how you hunt and where you hunt and the results of the equipment. Then, if a detector or coil does not provide the performance hoped for, just let it be known it does or doesn't handle the test and eliminate any negativity. Both about a product, the product maker, and anyone who also likes to voice an honest and positive opinion.
Just my thoughts.
Monte
I am enjoying my Garrett Apex, as well as my Minelab, White's Fisher, Teknetics, Tesoro's, and Nokta / Makro products. I just make it a point to learn their strengths and weaknesses and grab what I feel is going to handle the task ahead of me when I get to a site. The multi-model product review I am working on right now is showing some of the plus-points of the Apex performance,k but 'depth-of-detection' on single coins has not been one of them. It's OK, but it isn't going to rival the better-performing units out there when it comes to being a deep-seeking detector.
Monte