Video: ATX - Demonstration of the Discrimination Features

[bearkat4160]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84c9c2z3KbY

 

[Fishers Ghost]

HI BK.
The Disc seems to have very limited usefulness as compared to the Iron Check

At least the discrimination on the Infinium was of great help in seperating gold from iron all the way to target depth via the Iron Check setting. but the disc on the ATX would require cauction in use due to the rapid loss of depth.on all targets.
The tone crossover point may be of some use for TID on certain coins.

 

[Night Crawler]

Definitely something to use sparingly or not at all.

Another great video bearkat4160 thanks very much for your time and efforts. This is just what I'm looking for (the nuts and bolts) of this machine.

Just a curious question here while my last surviving gerbil is limping on 3 legs in my head here, is once the DISC. is brought in to play, could you not increase Sensitivity or Power to bring back some of the depth lost using DISC. in the first place?

Thanks.

 

[steve herschbach]

At least the discrimination on the Infinium was of great help in seperating gold from iron all the way to target depth via the Iron Check setting. but the disc on the ATX would require cauction in use due to the rapid loss of depth.on all targets.

The Infinium exhibits the same depth loss. Advancing the so-called discrimination control on the Infinium causes depth loss commensurate with the setting. Iron check is merely the maximum setting. Items that are "rejected" by advancing the control are rejected because their detection depth in effect drops below zero. Items that continue to signal when in the iron check setting are simply items that are most resistant to being eliminated by advancing the pulse delay. The knob control on the Infinium has been switched to a set of button actuated levels on the ATX and both adjust the same thing, with the same effects. Both so-called discrimination controls require extreme caution as they do not act like VLF discrimination controls. Anyone using reverse discrimination while nugget detecting would walk away from a multi-ounce gold nugget thinking it was iron.

The only reason I ever use the control is to employ it as a pulse delay control, since that is what it is. Advancing it can help deal with salt water signals or certain hot rock and/or ground signals. Some tiny non-ferrous trash can also be tuned out at minimum levels, like thin foil or can slaw.

 

[bearkat4160]

Yes; the sensitivity can be raised to max and will help recover a litte bit from loss...I had it on 10 for the whole video.

Bearkat

 

[Fishers Ghost]

At least the discrimination on the Infinium was of great help in seperating gold from iron all the way to target depth via the Iron Check setting. but the disc on the ATX would require cauction in use due to the rapid loss of depth.on all targets.

The Infinium exhibits the same depth loss. Advancing the so-called discrimination control on the Infinium causes depth loss commensurate with the setting. Iron check is merely the maximum setting. Items that are "rejected" by advancing the control are rejected because their detection depth in effect drops below zero. Items that continue to signal when in the iron check setting are simply items that are most resistant to being eliminated by advancing the pulse delay. The knob control on the Infinium has been switched to a set of button actuated levels on the ATX and both adjust the same thing, with the same effects. Both so-called discrimination controls require extreme caution as they do not act like VLF discrimination controls. Anyone using reverse discrimination while nugget detecting would walk away from a multi-ounce gold nugget thinking it was iron.

The only reason I ever use the control is to employ it as a pulse delay control, since that is what it is. Advancing it can help deal with salt water signals or certain hot rock and/or ground signals. Some tiny non-ferrous trash can also be tuned out at minimum levels, like thin foil or can slaw.

HI Steve.
I agree that using the disc on the ATX will lose gold but with the Infinium in the iron check or reverse disc position gold will always give an Hi/Lo signal even if your nugg produces either a Hi/Lo or Lo/Hi tone in Normal mode and small nugss do sound as Hi/Lo and large nuggs tend to be LO/Hi. So because the disc control does reduce response to all targets as it is advanced, in order to find gold you must dig all signals that are Hi/Lo in rev disc and or that have reduced noticably in signal strength and changed to Hi/LO when selecting Rev Disc.
There is absolutely no way you would walk away from gold with the Infinium if you use and interpret the signal correctly when using the Rev Disc.
Some nuggs can sound as Hi/Lo or Lo/Hi in air but change to Lo/Hi in the high mineral ground but these nuggs will still be Hi/Lo in rev disc in or out of the ground where the Infinium is concerned..

 

[bearkat4160]

Adrian...I will do a video test for you on iron check with just nuggets so you can see what to expect, might even try a little disc too to see it effects on nuggets...

Bearkat

 

[steve herschbach]

"There is absolutely no way you would walk away from gold with the Infinium if you use and interpret the signal correctly when using the Rev Disc."

Well Adrian, I applaud your faith even if I do not share it. Since by definition you do not dig the targets you walk away from, I wonder just how it is you are so certain you have never walked away from gold. Unlike you, I am absolutely certain I have left nuggets in the ground by relaying on discrimination of any sort. There is not a system that cannot be fooled, and if you think otherwise you still have some learning to do about detectors and nugget detecting. All you can do is hope the gold lost is made up for in overall efficiency but there is no way to ever calculate the true costs involved. The good news is as long as people share your faith I will always have gold to find.

 

[Fishers Ghost]

The reason I am certain is this:
If the Infinium gives me any signal that remains as or changes to HI/Lo in reverse disc and is at a reduced strength to the normal mode sig then that target signal is what gold produces and I will dig it, It may not be gold due to the nature of the discrimination but if it is I will find it.

If the detected signal is Hi/Lo or Lo/Hi and does not reduce in strength in rev disc and also does not change to HI/Lo in rev disc then the target is almost certain to not be gold. I say Almost because there may be a funny gold nugg or two out there with a very large chunk of iron ore attatched to it that will or may keep the signal at a Lo/Hi in rev disc, but it is very unlikely, not impossibl but unlikely

If I get a signal that fades completely in reverse disc (happens Often) then I remove enough earth from off the target in order to recover the signal so as to be able to determine if it has become a HI/Lo tone in rev disc, If it has changed then it may be gold and if it is still a Lo/Hi tone then it is not a gold target but may be silver or any number of different metals but it will not be gold.

You are very correct in saying, I cannot know for certain whether I have left gold in the ground by using my interpretations of the Infiniums signals. If I have then so be it, but I feel very confident in the Infiniums ability to ID a solid gold nugget.

 

[Fishers Ghost]

Adrian...I will do a video test for you on iron check with just nuggets so you can see what to expect, might even try a little disc too to see it effects on nuggets...

Bearkat

Hi BK,
So far the ATX has shaped up to be a pretty fine metal detector and I wish I had the cash to splash on one.
Your vids are great.
The last one re discrimination is very interesting because it shows that the ATX disc is similar to the Infinium in that there is a tone cross over point for certain items like with the Infinium our two dollar coin changes from a warbly Hi/Lo Lo/Hi tone to a Hi/Lo tone at a disc setting of approx 3 which gives a bit better depth on this coin than at zero disc.Also I have noticed that some gold nuggs give a stronger response with the disc a bit above zero.

It will be interesting to see if there is any similarity between the ATX Iron check & discrimination and the Infinium at max disc.

 

[bearkat4160]

Yes you are very correct Adrian...that is just the reason I mentioned in the video about the tone change at around the 4 setting on some targets. The tone change is a very important part of detecting with this ATX as you have mastered that with the Infinium. But as Steve says...you still got to dig most targets. But so far, anything that has given the iron grunt in iron check, has been iron. So I imagine in the future I will not dig those anymore...but for now, I will dig them just to get to know the ATX better.

 

[bearkat4160]

If I select shift to go to disc settings, and I hold the + button and run disc all the way up, then in essence it should be the same as "reverse discrimination" in the Infinium. And will take about the same amount of time to do it also. I think I will try this tmro...we could have that same reverse disc feature the Infinium has, plus more in using the ATX...just not sure it will function the same...will give it a try though.

Edit: I guess I did that in my video already, duh...but the gold nugget did not disappear totally, so it seems it is kinda close to reverse discrimination but not totally like it.

Bearkat

 

[Fishers Ghost]

HI BK.
After watching your previous vid again the max disc does seem to work the same as the Infinium Rev Disc setting and that gold in the ground at max disc will always be a hi/lo tone and that a lo/hi at max disc will not be gold. That, combined with the iron disc is a very handy feature..
The more I listen to the ATX the more I see it as a super Infinium with excellent ground balance and small nugg sensitivity while still being able to hit the big stuff at good depth, all with just ONE DD COIL....Sweeeet.

 

[GoldChaser]

Nice summary, FG.
Seems to have some extra depth too.

 

[bearkat4160]

The Discrimination/Pulse-Delay functions of the ATX and the Infinium are effectively the same.
The ATX Iron Check button, on the other hand, does not use this delay method at all. Rather, it uses a completely different/independent circuit to determine if the target is ferrous or not.

Bearkat

 

[lytle78]

That's really interesting about the iron check. Is this information you have gotten by observing the detector in action or has Fisher stated that?

It would be interesting to know how the iron check does what it does.

Thanks for all your great info!

 

[Fishers Ghost]

If by Fisher you mean me then no I have no idea how the iron check works on the ATX but the Discrimination appears to be the same from observation, I know nothing at all about the cct technical details.

 

[lytle78]

Oops - wrong manufacturer! My bad. I meant whether Bearcat had the info from the manufacturer GARRETT, or had figured it out by observation and experiment. Of course I conduced everybody by sating Fisher when I meant Garrett.

Sorry

 

[John-Edmonton]

But the iron check on the ATX is completely different from the iron check (disc on max) on the Infinium, and also works independently from the discrimination settings on the ATX. The Iron check will work regardless of other settings.

 

[bearkat4160]

Lol, I got it from Garrett...