Volusia county FL parks

[Sailorman]

Volusia county parks now off limits.

For those of you who hunt Volusia county the Parks director, Tim Baylie tbaylie@volusia.org, has decided detecting is and somehow has been for some time banned. This of course comes a bit of a shock to those of us who have been detecting there for quite some time. Most of us had always talked with local park managers who had no problems with it as long as we were neat and left things as we found them.

Then someone decided the local managers permission wasn't good enough and decided to pester the top bureaucrat for permission and now suddenly we get this from the guy who wrote him. I encourage FL hunters to speak their minds to officialdom:

I queried Tim Baylie, Director of Parks in Volusia County, concerning metal detecting in the county parks. His response was that no detecting was allowed. For everyone's information, here is his complete response:

" Thank you for your email. Metal detecting is not allowed in county parks. Here is some back ground information that may be helpful regarding the establishment of this position. First, some of the county park lands have archeological and historical significance. Funding used to acquire some of these lands have been provided by state and/or federal agencies. These agencies typically require the county to protect these lands and the archeological/historical assets on them. It is further defined in Florida Statute 267.13 Prohibited practices; penalties. Also, any items found on these lands are the property of the owner and would be required to be returned to the area in which it was found.

Secondly, in our parks, there are many open play areas used by the general public to participate in various recreational activities. For example throwing a base ball with their child, kicking a soccer ball or walking their dog etc. Irresponsible metal detecting can cause dirt mounds or holes in the turf that result in a safety hazard. The allowance of this activity would place the county at increased risk.

I have had various conversations with citizens who have requested to metal detect on our park lands. Some state that they won't dig and will just retrieve items on the surface. In practice, this has not been the case.

For the reasons stated above, metal detecting is not allowed in County parks. Although this is posted in some of our more highly sensitive lands, I will post it on our county web site to better inform the public of this policy.

If I can assist you further please let me know. Thank you!

 

[MNCoinhunter]

Once again ... another case of a handful of nimwits who ruin it for the rest of us. Seems to be a common thread these days.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

sailorman, I'm not sure if you meant to imply it or not, but reading closely in your text, it seems to me that the "dimwit" here who "ruins things", is NOT the appointed official who passes down this "no". But reading closely in your post, I lift this text:

" Most of us had always talked with local park managers who had no problems with it as long as we were neat and left things as we found them. ..... Then someone decided the local managers permission wasn't good enough and decided to pester the top bureaucrat for permission "

Do you get it? This is EXACTLY a case of "no one cared, TILL you asked". This occurs over and over, where a particular place is just deemed fair game, and no ones ever had a problem before. So others that follow in the earlier md'rs footsteps have no reason to question that. Afterall, it's just where their mentors, who got them into this hobby, took them to hunt. And perhaps rangers, gardeners, cops, pass you by with nothing but a friendly wave. But then lo & behold, just like your story, some "skittish cautious person" who is "just making sure" (afterall, you can't be "too safe", now can you), takes it upon himself to go ask. Doh!

Put yourself in that desk-bound bureaucrat's shoes, who receives such an inquiry. What do you THINK is the safe answer? The mere fact that such a question even lands on his desk, simply infers that something is inherently wrong, or damaging, or in need of scrutiny. Lest why would you be asking, if it were innocuous and harmless. This is not subconsciously lost on the person you're asking! So ... gee.... they must pass it past their legal dept. Pass it past the local archies, etc.... ALL of whom might have never cared less, till you asked.

So the nitwit doing our hobby a dis-service is NOT the bureaucrat who passes down the "no". It's the md'rs who feel the need that they must "grovel" at the feet of desk-bound bureacrats for sanction! It's as if we can be our own worst enemy!

No doubt this feeling that persons feel they have to "go ask permission" in places where there is no specific rule saying "no", is born out of scary posts like THIS VERY POST! Skittish newbies read such things, and think "gee, I don't want to get in trouble, I better go ask in my town". And ... doh ... they might get a "no" where it's never been a problem before. So they put up a post to that effect: "Such & such place is now off-limits! Oh no! The sky is falling". Thus leading to more people "asking", and ....... you get the picture.

For pete's sake people, use a little frickin discretion! If there's no specific rule saying "no metal detecting", then don't ask anyone! If it's not specifically prohibited, then presto, it must not be prohibited!

 

[Sailorman]

Our situation here is many of these parks have a live on the premise manager. No sweat, you stop by the office and have a nice chat your first visit. You get told by the manager that detecting is fine, just keep things neat and clean. That was all the permission anyone I ever knew needed. The person in charge of the park said fine. This guy chased it to the top, big bad mistake. The law that this guy quoted applies to looting defined archeological sites, not public parks. Only one park in the county qualified as far as I know and was posted for no detecting.

His other arguments are interesting in light of the holes left by armadillos, pet dogs, moles, squirrels and feral hogs.

This country needs an enema.......

 

[Woodchuck]

YES a very good point ,county parks here in blank VA, are off limits offically,but people metal detect them,and the county personnel let us detect as long as we are mindful of digging proper plugs etc.And we know better than to rock the boat buy bringing it to a desk jockey in thec upper ecelons.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

You know, I agree with you that even if I DID ask someone (no matter how lowly and humble their status and position is), I would never argue with a "yes". I would not think "I better be safe and go ask someone higher up just to make sure".

I think the reason why some people ask "higher" than mere gardeners, custodians, or the little-girl-on-the-swing, is this:

There has been cases of someone getting a "sure go ahead" from some low-ranking person. We've all heard this story: They get "accosted" in the field by a cop, let's say. The md'r proudly whips out their "permission" or "name-drops" the premises manager's passive "ok". The cop or city person or whomever merely gets on their cell-phone, calls down to city hall, and raises cain. You know, saying nonsense stuff like "he's tearing the place up". Then guess what happens to your "premises manager's" passive "go ahead"? It's promptly over-turned and you're chided because " ... that person didn't have the authority to tell you yes".

So believe it or not, some threads on this subject (where someone laments getting booted despite his "permission" from a low ranking underling) is told "next time, get it from the HEAD of the park's dept, or ... "next time get permission from the mayor. And even "get it in writing too!" (gee, if that isn't the fastest way to get a "no", I don't know what is!).

Hence this is the rationale for some people going as high as they can, up the ladder. Because afterall sailorman, in their mind's eyes, they're "just being safe". This can be especially true if the lowly worker they first asked, gives any sort of "waffling" yes. Or a stand-off-ish "gee, I don't see why not, doesn't bother me", etc... All such vague answers sometimes send the skittish folk higher up the chain.

But I'm with you; I either take ANY "yes" (even if it's from a child on the swings), as authoritative. Or simply, look up rules for myself. If there's no prohibitions (by specific verbage saying "metal detecting"), then I simply go, and ask no one.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Yup, same for state of CA administered beaches: *Technically*, if you sluethed deep enough, and asked enough questions, with enough key buzzwords, of enough desk-bound bureaucrats, various vebage *could* be made to be interpretted to say "no metal detectors" . Afterall, you "Might" find something old, etc... blah blah... But the ACTUAL REALITY is: detectors are a common site on all state of CA administered beaches. And no one cares!

Now you tell me: would it be a good thing for someone to go "seek clarification", to "make sure" that various verbage (cultural heritage stuff) might not apply to md'ing? NO, of course not. You simply leave good enough alone, and GO!