Whats your opinion on hunting Dept. Of Transportation property

[michaelnc]

I have contacted the state officials and the local engineers and they won't give me a yes or a no. These sites are old homesites and there has been no development but soon these sites will be demolished and the opportunity will be lost. What would you guys do in this situation? I need some info.

Thanks,

Shane

 

[scubadetector]

My opinion, its better to ask forgiveness than wait for permission. With that said, what is the worst that can happen to you? If they are abandoned houses and waiting to be demolished, who would bother you if anybody? I am sure if somebody doesn't like it, they will just tell you to move on.

 

[leslie]

If you cannot gain permission Shane then I would forget it, and move on.

Trespass could involve the police being called, how are you gonna talk

yourself out of that situation, could end up behind bars, think about it.

Les

 

[John 'n' W.Va]

Official answers are always on the legal, liability, side. Officials don't want things to come back on them, so it is simple just to say no. I would not tell you to go ahead and MD it. That is a judgement call you have to make. I say judgement because what you can do in one area, you can't necessarily do in another area. In Fl. I MD'ed easements. I can't do that in W.V. People in WV. value and look at things differently then Fl. I would get shot in my area of WV. MD'ing easements.

I MD'ed 200 homes that were to be demolished for a new hi-way. They all had no trespassing signs posted. It was a liability thing. Before I MD'ed them I stopped by the police station and did a little P.R. work. I gave them my PH. # and offered my Metal detecting services if they ever needed them. I stayed away from questionable areas and detected places not too close to other people's property as to not to be a threat to anyone. I detected only open areas in the front of the houses so everyone saw I wasn't trying to hide something. The police were called. The police knew me and many times asked how I was doing. I than progressed to doing all of the properties. Most people thought I worked for the city and would come out to talk to me. Man, the tokens, coins, pocket watches and rings I found, plus just having a great time. Legally, NO TRESPASSING!

Maybe ask a person at the site. Test the waters. Use common sense. It's your call.

 

[jim tn]

City, county or state property? If so, I would hunt them and not seek permission if other city, county and state places are o.k. to hunt. HH jim tn

 

[mudpuppy]

John'n'W.Va style, or even Scubadee's style...I'd dress halfway decent and be right out front, if the law showed up, I'd be very cool...old white guys (assuming you are) can get away with a lot if you dont look like trouble. Chances are they will figure you for some poor old tosser with nothing better to do...you may help them come to that conclusion of course, by simply wetting your pants, or ranting about your SS check, hemmerhoids, or lumbago, typically, no law enforcement officer wants you in the back seat of his car under these conditions..

 

[MNCoinhunter]

I think John n W.Va has the right approach. If you do decide to detect, at the very least try to rub elbows with the police. So when or if they get called you stand a better chance of not being asked to move along ..

 

[scubadetector]

Well its the same in Michigan AND Utah. I was a cop in Utah and LOL I have heard all about it here because of the stupid property rights of owners to the middle of a private lake.

YOU have to be TOLD you are tresspassing AND given the chance to move BEFORE its a criminal offense. Its also a 3rd degree misdemeanor which is the lowest. 50.00 fine in Utah IF you don't move off the property WHEN told BY a person that OWNS it.

ANYBODY can tell you you can't detect, BUT are they an athority figure or just a person trying to push their weight around THINKING they know the laws.

Anyway, YOU CAN'T get arrested for tresspassing unless you have been TOLD you are and will NOT move. YOU can also check that out with your local police department.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Well let's see, it's public property, right? You didn't say whether or not it was fenced or posted. And if only the houses themselves are posted, I would interpret that to apply only to entering the houses themselves, and not apply to being out in front of them, walking by, etc..... If it were me, I'd do it. In fact, everyone on this forum is on "department of transportation" property 365 days per year, are we not? (aka "freeways") So what's the worry?

Now if it's fenced and posted, well ........ then that's your call. But if not, just go.

 

[michaelnc]

I also posted on another forum and got this response. DOT buys land for the public right of way ,which is saying it is public land ,So i would detect it until I was told otherwise. Most of the people that work there would not have the authority to tell you no any how. They might say some thing if there is heavy equipment working. I really appreciate the information.

Thanks everyone,

Shane

 

[salmonriverhotrock]

I work for the one in my State and I am not speaking on their or any others behalf or am I at any level within having any power or authority to make agreements or to give any permission or approve permitting. I do though think I'm safe to say as long as you are not on an Interstate Right of Way, as long as your vehicle has current tags and insurance, as long as it is safely parked out past the Fog Line or not in a no parking area and not obstructing sight, signs and such, as long as you are not crossing the highway becoming a hazard to yourself and the traveling public, not leaving things or hazards in the travel lanes, not using wheel or track and fuel powered machinery to dig or alter the Right of Way, and are not rolling rocks down in to the borrow ditch or moving materials that would fill it or aggravate erosion, not wrecking fences, digging up survey or monument markers,

I doubt very much we would bother to stop for someone detecting a dirt turn out for instance. So far I have not or have the guys I work with that I know of but could if we thought something was not right, causing damage, or was unsafe. Here on my section, especially since winter is getting closer and the maintenance is coming to an almost stand still, we are patrolling more often now to check the road condition and as always, looking for hazards and signs down for instance. Now the Rest Stops may be an issue as some have Contract Tenants that live on site as does ours. Our contract grounds keeper who cares for our Rest Stop metal detects and has detected this one. Knowing them a bit, I doubt they would say much as long as others were not killing the lawn and stuff like that or digging up the sprinkler heads.

The situation you are speaking of though may not be one you will want to chance. If any of our State property or areas of Right of Way has for instance "No Trespassing" signs, black letter on white background or white letter on black background, it is the Law. We have on our section, two locations that are signed. One is a waste materials dump area and our Yard and Shed is not only fenced and gated but is signed with such besides having another sign at the entrance with "Emergency Vehicles Authorised Personnel Only" and means exactly that. Now we don't get butt ugly about it when people drive in for need of help, or to report to us something but we have also had people just drive in having no reason at all to be here and we will challenge and ask them to leave. If they refuse, we just call Law Enforcement and so far, that has not happened. We are not Law Enforcement but we are around them often.

Like I said, I'm no authority to say one way or another, just passing on what my experience has been. If it were me, private citizen, and the signs no mater color, hand made or official and said "No Trespassing," I'd take it as such and move on. Here in Idaho, all a land owner has to do is paint a corner fence post for instance and then so much distance in between them with I think it's fluorescent red or orange, 4" X 4" area or greater, it means no trespassing. I've even seen rocks painted where there is no fence and it is legitimate.

 

[Dave J.]

If you cannot gain permission Shane then I would forget it, and move on.

Trespass could involve the police being called, how are you gonna talk

yourself out of that situation, could end up behind bars, think about it.

Les

I can verify that from firsthand experience.

Don't do it on a Friday, you'll likely not be able to bail out until Monday. I can verify that from firsthand experience, too.

It gets funnier than that. I didn't like the plea bargain my lawyer made, so I said screw that, I went straight to the DA myself and got a better deal. The judge figured the cops had mishandled the situation, but..... I had technically violated the law, and what's worse the result had been wasting a thousand bucks of the City of Oakland (Calif.) tax money dealing with the aftermath, so I couldn't just be let off the hook. I pled guilty (of trespass) and the judge gave me 10 days suspended on court probation for one year, terms of court probation being "don't show up in my courtroom under similar circumstances".

--Dave J.

 

[scubadetector]

So where you were detecting was not posted, you were breaking no other laws, you were not on federaly protected land, you were not told to stay off the property before, you had NO outstanding warrants? IF all of that is true, SOMETHING is fishy.

First the officer would have to know it wasn't your property, second it either has to be posted and or fenced off, and THIRD, SOMEONE would have to be the complaintant AND testify against you. Who was going to testify against you and swear you were tresspassing AND PROVE you know you shouldn't have been??

In Michigan there are forclosed houses on every block here, I have hunted a few. The banks own them. I have yet to be bothered. Maybe I will one day.

I wonder why my last post went poof?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

For pete's sake dave, you can't leave us hanging like that. WHAT in h*ck were you doing, that caused this "book to be thrown at you"? Because when I hear someone say "Dept. of Transportation land", I think of (in the case of CA, for instance) Caltran's right-of-way, along side of freeway on-ramps and off-ramps, for instance. And sometimes those right-of-ways (like out in the southern CA deserts, for example) can stretch way out in to the distance, quite a way from the edge of the actual road/freeways. And I sincerely doubt that anyone cares that a pedestrian is out there.

So for the life of me, I can't imagine what you did to generate this amount of trouble. I mean, seems you'd have had to have been hopping posted fenced sites, or not take a warning (ie.: no pedestrians on freeway right of way, etc....).

 

[Elton]

I think we should all be a little more mindful of how it looks to the general public where we detect..

I'm all for hunting where we can, but some places just aren't worth detecting and leaving a bad image for all to see.

Sometimes just one bad choice can mess up detecting for many other good places in a surrounding area..

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Elton think about it. Your entire post merely presumes something, that: "metal detecting looks bad". Since when is that a "given premise"? I happen to think that metal detectors look darn good, if you ask me.

I, and countless others here, detect where people pass by all the time ..... and couldn't care less. In fact, a lot of people (everyone here would agree) actually take positive INTEREST in md'ers and their gadgets, right? I mean, how often do we ALL have curious people come up and ask us the usual "what's the best thing you've ever found", and "how deep does it go", and so forth?

I think what you have done Elton, is taken the pyschological trick of honing in on the isolated incidents. The random isolated kill-joy stories, and assumed that "..... therefore, we are all somehow evil". I mean, wouldn't that be a little like getting flipped off in traffic for what another driver thinks is a bad lane change you just did, and then ....... you assuming that "oh no, all drivers on the road hate me!" It just doesn't logically follow.

Relax dude!

 

[Elton]

........... I was just saying.......... I think we all should be a little responsible for how the public sees our chosen hobby........ But then again, some self centered people only care about what benefits them..with no regard to anyone, or anything else..

If you can get permission to hunt an area..fine..If you trespass, disregard common sense, and sometimes Laws ..One is just asking for problems............. How you can correlate getting flipped off to detecting a questionable area is beyond me.......

Tom, I am not going to get in a debate with you about right and wrong, or even perceived right or wrong.......................... I'm going to detect where it's allowed, not causing an uproar, or putting our chosen hobby in a bad light. . That is my choice Sir....You can do the same as you see fit...............I only hope it doesn't take away any places now legal to detect lumped in with a Law, or ordinance someone caused by being irresponsible..and doing what only benefited their immediate want to needs... Have a nice day, and as always ,"nice to read your input..be it right, or wrong.."Who knows".


PS: Evil ...........wow such a strong word........Tom..The word I was thinking of was Care... Tom I am always relaxed because I don't have to look over my shoulder because I'm not hunting areas I shouldn't be hunting....

 

[D&P-OR]

I think Elton & others have made some good points on this whole subject.-----I do know, the less negative attention we bring to this great hobby (either real or perceived), the better.-----That may sound like a very obvious statement but non-the-less, a true one.-------Del

 

[Tom_in_CA]

"........... be a little responsible for how the public sees our chosen hobby........ "

Ok, and who said the public sees our hobby as bad? There's plenty of passerbys who see it as interesting, and/or simply don't care. What about them?? If we get to where we tailor all our actions on the few isolated kill-joy's stories out there, we might as well stay in our homes. Just like getting flipped off in traffic now and then, does that mean you shouldn't drive? Of course not.

"If you can get permission to hunt an area..fine..If you trespass, disregard common sense, and sometimes Laws" .

The type land in question here is not about trespass, lack of common sense, breaking laws, etc... If all that WERE the case, then yes, by all means, don't hunt an area if it is trespassing, breaking laws, or in some way lacking common sense. But for me, if there is a house torn down on road dept. right-of-way (like eminent domain to make way for road-widenings, or whatever), then I find that very "common sensical", and is not "trespassing" (unless posted as such).

" .... I'm going to detect where it's allowed, not causing an uproar, or putting our chosen hobby in a bad light. "

Lack of any prohibitions, is the same as "being allowed", is it not? If there's no prohibitions, then what's the problem? And again, saying things like "causing uproars" and putting our hobby in "bad lights", merely presumes that ...... duh, this automatically causes uproars and puts us in bad lights? Why do you start with that assumption? Where are all these legions of people who hate this/you/me? I don't see them (aside from the occasional kill-joy). As I say, I think you're "portraying" (psychologically speaking) from having read the widely circulated kill-joy stories, and thus thinking "oh no, everyone hates me", etc....

" I don't have to look over my shoulder because I'm not hunting areas I shouldn't be hunting...."

Nor do I "look over my shoulder", if I'm hunting in an area where it's not specifically disallowed.

 

[Elton]

n/t