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Whatzit? A casing and bullet but what round???

Ronstar

Well-known member
This Old Arboretum we have been detecting in has a 110 year University history. Hoping to recovery silver and other jewelry items from its biggest history, the Blue Mt Rock Festival (circa 60-70s) has proven a bit frugal but the area is full of walking trails etc so its a good place to spend time in nature.
Second day I started in started producing some old 45-70 style rifle cased. This I believe is a bit odd unless I stumbled into something the US Calvary created during the Indian skirmishes. A bit further into the woods I started digging 30-06 blanks (I know exactly what they look like and were at the time), and then a few 223 blanks. First thought now is ROTC probably doing training exercises at some point. All 06 cases had arsenal head-stamps from the mid 50s and the 223 cases from early 70s. But what about those old 45 cases??
Well yesterday I recovered a big ol chunk of lead in really good shape. Maybe now I have the puzzle piece needed to identify what this round was. I am not real familiar with the early modern firearms but now I know how you bullet pluckers feel when you talk about round ball CW bullets. So here is hoping some of you will weigh in on what I recorded here as the internet info doesnt quite match what I’ve got.
Case length: 1.858 (taken from two non damaged recoveries). Case mouth: .495 (outside) .445 (inside) Headstamp: F (at 12:00), 91 (at 4:00) and 3 (at 8:00). There are no civilian style markings, all appear like arsenal markings.
Bullet length: 1.090. Weight: 390 grs. Diameter: .451 (both base and just above grease groove), there are three grease grooves total. Bullet has been fired and judging by the rifling marks barrel is extremely slow twist.
Case is short compared to 45-70 so figured 45-60. Case measurements for that show length as 1.880 so this a tad short and I cant find measurements for 45-55.
Any info you folks can throw at this is greatly appreciated.
Recovered case on R next to new unfired 45-70
 

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u2robert

Well-known member
The bullet you have was used by the US army after the civil war up until the 1900's I do believe.
I have found those same bullets
 

Ronstar

Well-known member
Thanks! Not knowing how to identify or what the style name is has made it difficult to look up.
I’m not finding a listing for 390 gr bullets for the 45-60 but cant help but think it still could be as 405 gr appears to be the original preferred weight. I didn’t mention it earlier but it also looks cast as I can see where both sides of the mold came together.
 
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