Whites surfmaster dual field pi ...Help please

[GONGA]

I just recieved my new Whites surfmaster dual field pi yesterday ,I took it out today for a test run at the local beach.
After reading many reviews and doing a lot of research on this machine before I baught it..after todayI realised that the depth was very poor.for a detector with a huge coil it really was disapointing.
I cant get the machine to run stable once it is cranked up ....here is some of the settings I have tried.

scenario 1)When Gain is at the 9 oclock position ...the threshold is totally unstable after 7 oclock position on the threshold after that it is just throbbing pulsing tones....(pulse untouched position)

scenario 2) to achive a decent threshold hum without masking out everything the maximum gain that can be given is 9 oclock postion with threshold cranked to just below the factory about the 10 oclock position..(pulse untouched position)

I fiddled with the machine for a about 2 hours and found that I just cant get decent depth ....for a 2.5 centimeter australian 20 cent coin the maximum distance I could get was 25centimers in an air test at the beach ....

These figure are nowhere near the depths that the reviews I have read ..and many saying it is deeper than the minelab excalibur..
I bought this machine purely for beach use and the depth that it can achieve from what I have read.
What am I doing wrong or is the machine faulty ,can someone please give me some advice on the machine ....

 

[GONGA]

and when the gain is turned to 3 oclock postion ....the threshold can only be turned up a little bit from the minimum position after about 8 oclock on the threcshold it is to noisey ,threshold just throbs.....

 

[S.S.Tupperware]

Start with the pre set , they work well for me, I do run it a lil hotter though...

 

[grumpyolman]

I haven't used mine that much but you don't need to do the hottest settings to make it go deep. Try some moderation and see what happens. Not to worry. It's frustrating if the machine doesn't do what it's supposed to do, but if it's new you ought exchange it with the dealer...or if it's not new Whites has some of the best customer service of any detector manufacterer. Think I remember PIs don't air test well. Order Andy Sabisch's book on PI machines. He spend a good deal of time and attention on the Dual Field. jim

 

[deerman]

your right there grumpy on getting andys book/books as he will teach you well on any machine he has used,and as for hot setting .....not for a newbie,.... you should learn at presets
thats what its there for,after that try some other setting / ask for setting that work were your detecting?theres alot of info here and all you have to do is ask so your in the ball park by being on the fourm and asking...
Step 1. read instruction on machine
Step 2. Read them again so you understand what the instruction are telling you
Step 3. SET UP THE MACHINE AS PER THE INSTRUCTION!!!!!! (i.e.PRESET ON THE MACHINE)
Step 4. use presets ti'll you understand the machine well and start finding a few finds(junk is a find learn from finding it too)
Step 5..have fun while using your surfmaster its not a job its a hobbie enjoy it as such......
Step 6. after about 10 hours of running the machine try turning a knob(A LITTLE TURN AT A TIME SO YOU CAN RESET IT TO PRESET) to see what it will do over that target you just found in
PRESET!!!!
Step 7. after about 20 hours playing with the detector you should be able to set-up the machine so it works in/on the beach your hunting (might take a little longer/shorter
depending on the detector?)so have fun and enjoy the fun,also fill in your holes after digging up the target and throw out the trash in the waste can at home is prefered as
you can id the find!

 

[andreak77]

I would definitely recommend the presets as everyone has suggested. In addition to that, it was your first time out with the detector - I'd say give it some time, set up some test targets (on top of the ground) or not, but be patient, be very conservative with your settings, listen and learn what the detector is telling you with your "known" targets - not air testing, then slowly start tweaking the settings - adjusting one at a time so you can see how each control and adjustment affects the unit. Many people get very frustrated and end up selling a really great detector when they haven't taken the time to listen and learn what the detector is telling them. It all comes with practice. I have no doubt that once you spend some time just learning your detector and it's settings that you'll get it just where you want it and you'll start finding all those deep targets that other users talked about.

Happy Hunting! - Andrea

 

[cjc]

Whose books? Don't make me use an emotion--I hate those things!
clivesgoldpage.com
cjc

I haven't used mine that much but you don't need to do the hottest settings to make it go deep. Try some moderation and see what happens. Not to worry. It's frustrating if the machine doesn't do what it's supposed to do, but if it's new you ought exchange it with the dealer...or if it's not new Whites has some of the best customer service of any detector manufacterer. Think I remember PIs don't air test well. Order Andy Sabisch's book on PI machines. He spend a good deal of time and attention on the Dual Field. jim

 

[deerman]

clive's books are the best for water detecting that i've ever read so look at his web site too!!!!!!!
how am i doing clive????? sorry i did'nt say anything on your books too as thay are great books too!!!

 

[GONGA]

Thanks guys for the info I really appreciate the helpfull replies,
Do pi machines actually go deeper in the ground than in airtests ..and are they actually deeper in in wet sand beach conditions than air tests?.......
the other thing I will mention now that I think about it ,the beach I was at has about 1 to 2 foot deep sand then it hits the bedrock , and there was a bit of black sand aswell....maybe this is why I couldnt crank it up too much,Ill try a different beach and see how It goes.

I,ll keep you guys posted on how I go with my new machine....

 

[kered]

Gonga, the question here is what is a stable threshold, there is no way you are going to get a smooth threshold on the dual field the same as the excalibur, stock settings on all dials will find pretty deep, but as far as a stable threshold like the excalibur/GT no way, it will still sound like radio static with a far off lightning storm(thats about the best way i can describe it) that is stable. I have to turn down the threshold slightly as its far too loud for me on the mark, turning the gain down slightly you won't lose much depth(try it on a target) but will quieten it down a bit but it still sounds like radio static rather than a smooth hum

 

[UK Brian]

I don't know if my posts are still up on the PI forum but if so you will see that people in the U.K. could not achieve the quoted depths claimed from many U.S. users. I had one experienced user who thought he had bought a lemon and a newby who thought he must be doing something wrong. With the third machine that wasn't living up to expectations it seemed something was wrong somewhere.
I tested buried coins and rings on damp sand and then rings/coins on ply discs on marked lengths of string. Sank these down into liquid sand as the tide retreated then as the sand firmed pulled the string up until the item was at the required depth. Still not able to obtain suggested depths.

New thought. Many reports were from Florida which has little mineralisation or black sand. Tried detaching the coil and having my wife hold it edge on in the water whilst I swept targets at various distances. A little better but still no where near. All tests conducted at various settings including quite and smooth up to running noisy. Plus various sweep speeds.

Then asked an experienced user in Florida to do a few tests. He was pleased with the detector which was outperforming his Excaliber as should be expected from a non discriminating pulse. By this time things had moved on from "I dug a ring at eighteen inches" to providing the weight which made things a little easier for comparison. Unfortunately he found that to match depths he would need to use a ring of perhaps twice the weight. Claims now had moved on from consistantly finding rings/coins at 18 inches to rings at 20, 22, even 24 inches. How anyone can give an accurate depth when wading escapes me. Difficult even on fairly solid sand.

The solution seems to be the old thing of overestimation of depth combined with missing the target which then drops further down a dug hole. I spoke to Whites in the U.K. and they were not claiming the excessive depths being posted. Meanwhile even my oldest P.I. (Eric Foster Deepstar with 11" coil) continues to outgun the DF with little adjustment needed between beaches and its very forgiving with sweep speed.

 

[Craig-PI]

Brian... I have gotten great depths from my Dual Field that a Excalibur wouldn't even hear so I agree its deeper than the Excal... as to the OPers question he may have purchased one of the DFs with the defective coils... I run my gain wide open with my threshold at 12 and my pulse delay at 7 am or so... as to comparing it to your EF machine... don't you think thats a little unfair when the cost of a EF machine is twice as much as the DF? Another thing the EF Pulse delay is 10uS where the DF comes in at 15uS I'm not down on Excaliburs as I run the GT where I know there is too much iron and its a excellant detector... my second favorite behind the DF... next time you are in the states come up to Connecticut and I'll let you run my DF in the mud and clay we have here Good seeing you btw Brian

 

[Mr.Bill]

n/t

 

[Mr.Bill]

It's just a Surfmaster PI Pro, with the Pulse Delay control put back on, and a larger diam. coil. ( The Dual Field was a coil design that Eric Foster suggested to Whites when he was designing the TDI. It's still a "mono" PI coil. ) If the DF is adjusted correctly at manufacturing, it "should" go down to 15

 

[cjc]

Sure hope yer Outta jokes!
cjc

 

[GONGA]

I took down to another the beach this morning and the results were the same ,..low depth and the thing is I cant even turn the settings to the factory recommended marks ......the gain at that recomended setting is not too bad if threshold is at zero mark but then when you turn the threshold up its just awfull by the time i turn it up to the factory recomended mark its just a throbbing nasty pulsy type tone which is just unbearable with the headphones .
Im now wondering if the coil or the whole thing is faulty like mentioned above or is this just how these machines are ,which leaves me to ask another question .If this is just normal characteristics from this machine then I ask MR BILL what can be done to improve this machine and can you do the mods and what improvements can be expected....or can a different coil be fitted...Thank you all so far

 

[Craig-PI]

Sounds to me like you have a bad coil... usually a constant pulse signals EMI interference from some source.. I have 1 beach here I can't hunt with my DF because of EMI interference from a police transmitter line...

 

[grumpyolman]

Dang CJC!! I blew that one. Sorry! Andy gets credit for your book. Not fair. However, for a mere plebe you two are the top dogs and maybe you could forgive someone for getting it mixed up. Does age help? I claim onset of CRS disease. Cant' Remember S_ _ _! jim

 

[Mr.Bill]

Perhaps I missed this info ?

 

[UK Brian]

Thats Wollongong, New South Wales. Not a gold bearing area as far as I know but the beach mineralisation is almost certain to be higher than the U.S. or U.K.