Why isn't there an 8" DD coil for the X-Terra?

[ryanchappell]

Why don't you make and 8" elliptical DD coil for the X-Terra? Why do we like switching back and forth from 10" or 9" to 6" so much? I guess we are just supposed to use the stock coil. They can call it the RyanChappelle. I guess it will have to be a MF since I have a 305.

 

[MXTerer]

n/t

 

[Old Longhair]

Sounds to me like human nature, wanting whatever you don't have or can't get.
Heck...I'm happy that they've given us 4 new coils in the last two years, raising the number available to 12.

Personally, I don't know what it is about elipticals that turns people on. Separation capability is limited by length, and depth is limited by width.

If you want to ponder something, why not wonder why they make 6"DD coils in LF & HF but made the 6"MF a concentric?

 

[ryanchappell]

Sounds to me like human nature, wanting whatever you don't have or can't get.
Heck...I'm happy that they've given us 4 new coils in the last two years, raising the number available to 12.

Personally, I don't know what it is about ellipticals that turns people on. Separation capability is limited by length, and depth is limited by width.

Yeah, unless you consider that a lot of us revel in 8" ellipticals on other machines!!

Have you ever tried an 8" DD coil?

I find that my E-Trac's 8x6 SEF is the perfect balance between depth and separation, and there are at least 20 E-Trac users on the Findmall's E-Trac forum that will tell you the same exact thing! Not having the perfect mid size coil available hurts the X-Terra!

It is not about it being elliptical as much as having that length detection swath for sweeping around junk and still getting depth, but an elliptical shape not only helps physically fitting the coil in spots, but it also makes the swath or detection "laser beam" thinner, which is good as well!

I have since warmed up to the 9" concentric acting small than 9" with depth as its swath gets smaller the deeper it detects, but it is not the same as an 8" DD swath cutting nearly straight down seeing between surface junk better than the shallow wide part of a concentric coil.

If you want to ponder something, why not wonder why they make 6"DD coils in LF & HF but made the 6"MF a concentric?

Already have... I just use the 8" coil so much, guess you guys don't know what you are missing... I pretty much only use the 305 when I need the 6" coil, guess I just need to get the 6" for my E-trac, and keep the 305 for my wife and the very rare instance I need to find a gold chain or earring backing sized object with the 6" HF.

 

[Old Longhair]

Actually Ryan, I have and use an 8" on my Explorer SE (the good one from an old Explorer, not the newer less effective FBS800). I also have 5", 10", 12", and 18" loops for it. Each coil has it's purpose, just as each machine has it's purpose.

The Xterra is not, nor has it ever been considered "competition" for FBS machines. Many of us have both V-Flex and FBS because they are a killer pair. What you can't get done with one, you can with the other. Maybe that's why Minelab integrated both technologies in the hugely successful CTX? And even so, Randy and AirForceMike (among others that have CTXs) still have and use 705s for what they offer.

My point is, that it seems to me that you spend an awful lot of time concerned about what you don't have or can't do, rather than what you do have and can do.

Maybe there are new coils on the horizon somewhere, but it took way more than a handful of people wanting them to get 2 new 3kHz coils added to the lineup. It took years and a lot of calls & e-mails worldwide. Now that has authority to produce V-Flex coils, I would start with them if you want to begin a campaign, but bring friends....a lot of them.

And as for ellipticals....your statement says it all if you look at it like I do.
"a lot of us revel in 8" ellipticals on other machines"<- Key words being other machines.
Having other machines, and more than one coil for each (except the 1280X), I find that I have pretty much exactly what I need for about any given task. The only thing that I would like to see, is more solid bottom coil covers available for spoked coils, making them easier to hunt with in stubble and brushy areas.

 

[ryanchappell]

The Xterra is not, nor has it ever been considered "competition" for FBS machines. Many of us have both V-Flex and FBS because they are a killer pair. What you can't get done with one, you can with the other. Maybe that's why Minelab integrated both technologies in the hugely successful CTX? And even so, Randy and AirForceMike (among others that have CTXs) still have and use 705s for what they offer.

Red herring misdirection PR attempt?

My point is, that it seems to me that you spend an awful lot of time concerned about what you don't have or can't do, rather than what you do have and can do.

Irrelevant. Misdirection.

Maybe there are new coils on the horizon somewhere, but it took way more than a handful of people wanting them to get 2 new 3kHz coils added to the lineup. It took years and a lot of calls & e-mails worldwide. Now that has authority to produce V-Flex coils, I would start with them if you want to begin a campaign, but bring friends....a lot of them.

Handful? Look at how many 8x6s are being sold for the e-trac, but wait they are $100 cheaper than what Minelab would allow them to be sold for in a VFlex format.

And as for ellipticals....your statement says it all if you look at it like I do.
"a lot of us revel in 8" ellipticals on other machines"<- Key words being other machines.
Having other machines, and more than one coil for each (except the 1280X), I find that I have pretty much exactly what I need for about any given task. The only thing that I would like to see, is more solid bottom coil covers available for spoked coils, making them easier to hunt with in stubble and brushy areas.

So just accept that you can't use an 8" on a X-Terra. That doesn't make sense either. Minelabs proprietary money making system is only allowing limited coils on these machines. That is the crux.

 

[Mark in S.E. IA]

I have a 10.5 MF DD coil and love it. The only other coil I really care to buy would be a 6" MF DD coil and until they make one I'm not planning on buying another other coil for the xterra. To tell you the truth I'm in no hurry to buy a 6" coil anyhow, lol

 

[ryanchappell]

Hope you like switching coils a lot, because on my E-trac I just leave the 8" on and almost never have to switch!

 

[Old Longhair]

Hope you like switching coils a lot, because on my E-trac I just leave the 8" on and almost never have to switch!

It depends on too many factors to make a blanket statement like that Ryan. I have an 8" on my FBS machine a lot of the time, but it never would have found half of the stuff that I've pulled with the 18" loop.

Each serves a purpose. It's up to you to make a wise decision as to what will be most likely to find what you're looking for where you're looking.

 

[atomicscott]

Why don't you make and 8" elliptical DD coil for the X-Terra? Why do we like switching back and forth from 10" or 9" to 6" so much? I guess we are just supposed to use the stock coil. They can call it the RyanChappelle. I guess it will have to be a MF since I have a 305.

I believe with the 305, you have the option to use the 18.75khz coils as well. They do make the 10" elliptical DD 18.75khz coil. It does excellent on small gold, and some say it makes a great all-around coil (although it's not waterproof).

 

[ryanchappell]

More PR Minelab company line talking in circles, of the mentality that it only matters how you appear not what you say. I prefer objectivity. Not having a balanced general purpose DD coil on a detector like the 705 is a huge downside to me. Yes if you detect in plowed fields a lot a 18" gigantic coil makes sense. I would argue most of the target market for the XTerras detect for items less than 7 inches deep in areas with a fair amount of junk, and an 8" DD coil would offer a significant advantage over the stock coil for that purpose. Minelab should loosen up on their licensing and fees for the vflex technology, so that more companies offer coils! It will only help sell detectors. Of course other coils are useful from time to time, but most of us coinshoot around homes and parks and through a lot of junk, and need to balance depth and separation, the way that an 8" coil would allow us too.

 

[mapper65]

I think you are really wanting the 6" Coiltek Digger coil but you don't know it. I've easily had finds at the 7-8" mark with that coil. If you are hooked on an 8" coil and you wouldn't be happy with 7-8" depth like that out of a 6" coil then you are missing the boat. I'm primarily a coin shooter and I think you may be wishing for something that's already out there but it's not an 8" coil. Granted your losing 2" of width but to me that's not a big deal because you are also 2" lighter so to speak.

Happy hunting!

 

[Digger]

Why don't you make and 8" elliptical DD coil for the X-Terra? Why do we like switching back and forth from 10" or 9" to 6" so much? I guess we are just supposed to use the stock coil. They can call it the RyanChappelle. I guess it will have to be a MF since I have a 305.

Instead of baiting the moderators or bantering with other members of this forum, you should direct these types of questions to Minelab.

From a realistic standpoint, coil prototypes are constantly being evaluated in the lab and in the field. Currently, however, there is not an 8-inch DD coil Authorized for the X-TERRA that is commercially available.

More PR Minelab company line talking in circles, of the mentality that it only matters how you appear not what you say. I prefer objectivity. Not having a balanced general purpose DD coil on a detector like the 705 is a huge downside to me.

Since you stated that you prefer objectivity.......recognizing you have the 305, yet comment on how not having a general purpose DD coil on a detector like the 705 is a huge downside to you........you might consider the X-TERRA HF elliptical DD. (apparently you are unaware that the 305 will accept both MF and HF coils)
Being both objective and practical, the 705 Gold Pack comes with this elliptical coil as the stock coil. The elliptical coil measures 5.25" X 9.5" and weighs 14.2 ounces. This is 2 ounces less than the stock 9-inch concentric at 7.5 kHz, 6 ounces less than the 10.5-inch DD at 7.5 kHz and only 1.2 ounces more than the 6-inch DD 3kHz Coiltek coil that they named DIGGER. HH Digger

 

[ryanchappell]

I think you are really wanting the 6" Coiltek Digger coil but you don't know it.

you might consider the X-TERRA HF elliptical DD. (apparently you are unaware that the 305 will accept both MF and HF coils)

Naw. I have the 6" 18.75kHz, and the stock coil. Maybe your coil would get an extra inch or two though, since it is low frequency.

Being both objective and practical, the 705 Gold Pack comes with this elliptical coil as the stock coil. The elliptical coil measures 5.25" X 9.5" and weighs 14.2 ounces. This is 2 ounces less than the stock 9-inch concentric at 7.5 kHz, 6 ounces less than the 10.5-inch DD at 7.5 kHz and only 1.2 ounces more than the 6-inch DD 3kHz Coiltek coil that they named DIGGER.

Thanks, I didn't know the 5 x 10" 18.75 kHz X-Terra Coil was really 9.5", that is good to know. I still think 8" is a key size. I bought minelab's thinking that I wanted to detect deeper, but with the average detectable silver coin only 3.5 inches deep, I quickly learned that maximizing separation was the best way to find silver. 6" only gets a couple of inches in depth, an 8" DD coil seems to be the perfect depth at 3-5". This is in devil soil, not that nebraska cake. I don't think the 9.5" coil is going to be the way to go hunting around old houses, and parks. It would be almost as bad as that huge Pro-coil that comes with the E-trac that I barely use anymore.

Instead of baiting the moderators or bantering with other members of this forum, you should direct these types of questions to Minelab.

Are you trying to say that those same Minelab people are not already ignoring my questions on this forum? Besides, X-terra owners probably need to know that maximizing separation helps as much or more than maximizing depth.

This made me think of a great request for minelab, a 3khz X-terra-like detector similar to the 305 that comes with an 8" 3khz DD coil, and has the ground balance with the larger scale of numbers like the 705.

 

[Old Longhair]

Are you trying to say that those same Minelab people are not already ignoring my questions on this forum?

And just who might "those same people" be? I'm not aware that any Minelab personel are watching this forum.

 

[Steve in Idaho]

With all of the different size and frequency coils that are available for the X-Terras, learning to use them first before wanting more sizes should be the answer. If the right coil for the soil conditions and the operator learns to tune and swing the coil correctly, there should be no need for different size coils than what we have.

 

[Digger]

This is in devil soil, not that nebraska cake.

I can't comment on the "Nebraska cake" you refer to as I've not hunted in Nebraska since the early 70's. I live east of the Missouri River that separates Iowa and Nebraska. Back during the last Ice Age, glaciers moved through the river area, grinding rocks (mostly quartz and feldspar) into dust like glacial flour. As the area dried out and the mudflats evaporated, westerly winds carried that glacier silt over the part of the Country where I live and do the majority of my detecting. This area is called the Loess Hills. Loess is known locally as "sugar clay" because it can be extremely hard when dry, but when wet, loses all cohesion. The Loess Hills of Iowa are remarkable for the depth of the drift layer, often more than ninety feet deep. The only comparable deposits of loess to such an extent are located in Shaanxi, China. I can't make a comparison to the soil where you hunt either. However, based on what you've said the past several years, I'm glad to have this silt and clay.

Maybe your coil would get an extra inch or two though, since it is low frequency

It isn't my coil. It is a Coiltek coil. I have no affiliation with Coiltek other than I've been working with them and Minelab for many years,in an effort to have more coils made available for the X-TERRA. In consideration of my efforts, Coiltek honored me by naming the 6-inch 3 kHz coil after the nickname I've had since I started detecting more than 40 years ago...."Digger" With all that said, I doubt it would double what you are getting with the 6-inch HF.

X-terra owners probably need to know that maximizing separation helps as much or more than maximizing depth.

The statement I've made for many year has been something like this..... Based on the places I detect, I believe there are more old coins hiding out there due to target masking, opposed to extreme depth. Here are a few posts where that is mentioned.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?55,1648451,1648883#msg-1648883
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?55,1545075,1545122#msg-1545122
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?55,987687,987687#msg-987687
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?55,955734,957053#msg-957053
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?86,1766898,1766898#msg-1766898

As to the development of an 8-inch coil....... as I said in my prior post, "coil prototypes are constantly being evaluated in the lab and in the field." For example, I found an 8-inch DD coil for the X-TERRA listed on eBay a few years ago. I corresponded with the seller prior to the ending of the auction and learned that he was a very well known field tester, author and detector enthusiast. He told me that the coil was based on the size of the TS-800 used on the Musky series, as well as earlier Sovereigns and Explorers. (For the record, the TS-800 coil is a round coil with a diameter of 7.25 inches.) He also told me that, although the performance wasn't "bad", he didn't believe it met the criteria used by Minelab. So, it was not manufactured. Although I bid what I considered a high price for it, I was outbid in the final seconds.
[attachment 269722 xterra8-inchprototypecoilfromsabisch-Copy.jpg]

A couple years ago, I was able to purchase two Pro Style X-TERRA coils from the Classifieds here on Findmall. One was HF and the other MF. Again, the person who was selling them said he had field tested them for Minelab, but they had not met the criteria that Minelab has established for its commercially available coils.
[attachment 269723 partofthestash-Copy.JPG]

I guess my point is, your request is not a new one. Some of us have been asking Minelab to make various sized coils for years. Adding 7 coils to the stock coil did provide some relief. Fortunately, Coiltek was able to gain the authorization to produce coils for the X-TERRA and released four more. [attachment 269725 varioussizesofxterracoils.JPG] [attachment 269728 AllTerraincoils1-Copy.jpg] [attachment 269727 CoinampRelic_6inch_Digger_LoRes.jpg]

As I said, "coil prototypes are constantly being evaluated in the lab and in the field." Not having a specific coil at a specific size and specific frequency does not necessarily mean those requests have been ignored. Certain coil designs just don't meet the criteria that Minelab has established. And at the end of the day, I think most folks would appreciate a company who sets a high degree of standards for their accessory coils, compared to someone who churns them out, without any regard to how well they actually perform in the field. JMHO Randy