Why More & More Sites Are Off Limits To Us! YOU'RE THE CAUSE!

[Critterhunter]

I saw this thread in the Explorer or Etrac forum about a guy getting kicked out of a school he was hunting. You can find this thread here (Note the picture of some guy using a shovel from one message!)...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?63,1298540,page=1

Here's a repost I made from there...

I started a thread like this a while back in the main forum. Like the one picture shows, you guys carrying a shovel, even a small one with a short handle, are just asking to get us banned from public spots. DON'T use something like that out in the public. The only time I would even consider using ANY kind of shovel with any kind of handle on it (even a small military one) is when I'm in the woods where nobody can see me. Even then, make darn sure you keep it hid until you get into the woods.

Don't give me excuses about you being too old to bend down and dig a plug like a normal hunter. There is no such thing as too old, only people too out of shape. I know guys in their late 60's that can out do me in terms of crawling under cars and working on things that take a lot of bending. NO EXCUSE. If you are too lazy to bend down then either get in shape or find another sport to waste your time on and not destroy it for the rest of us. Or, get yourself a long handled scoop and start hunting the beaches where you don't have to bend down. I encourage any fellow detectorist who sees a guy using a shovel like that to give me a real talking down to.

I use a normal digger with a 7" blade and about 4" of handle on it. It sits in a holster when not in use. Carry one of those in your hand all the time and look to get in trouble. Also, I always try to use a screwdriver in public when the target is say less than 4" deep. And when I do dig a plug I put my back to the road or people so nobody can see what I'm doing. I've taken to digging my plugs now with one side still attached like a hinge and then just fold it out of the ground. This makes it cleaner when it goes back in since it hasn't been shifted in relation to how it sits in the ground. If people don't start using common sense it won't be long before most of our spots are off limits. People hate to see other people having fun. That's just human nature, so they WILL call the cops if you stick things in their face like that. Also, I don't hit schools when anybody is there or any sports are going on. Even in parks I stay away from people and kids. If too many kids start following me around I leave, because a nervous parent will find a cop and start complaining.

I use a Garrett ProPointer and I can super tune (increase it's depth) by sliding a washer down the side of it that I have tied back by the battery cover. I just use my thumb to slide it down the shaft until it sounds off, then back it off a bit. Now I can pinpoint targets even deeper without digging a hole, and use my screwdriver to pop it out when in sport fields or open public areas. ALWAYS try to pop it with a screwdriver first or soon you'll be singing the blues like other people because you were too lazy.

We may all have "rights", but with those rights comes some form of responsibility. Mainly, stay out of people's way and always leave an area if you think you might be at risk of getting some noisy person to call the cops on you. You don't flaunt things in front of people. The way I see it as a tax payer I have every right (see my signature file) to do what I want, but that doesn't mean I don't have to take certain precautions to protect myself from the less informed public. Arguing about your rights with a cop is a no win solution. He doesn't care what the law says. All he cares about is making whoever is complaining this time happy.

 

[Critterhunter]

I'd further add that with rights come responsibilities. That's where we as Americans get in trouble. A person is either too dumb or too lazy to do the little things that will keep from running into problems, and so some do-gooder sues or spearheads a law to take care of the problem.

For example, you never considered that walking away from somebody five feet outside when smoking a cigarette would be a good idea, or were just too lazy to do it, and so now we've got laws that ban all of us from smoking outside in some areas. Outrageous? Yes, but with a little common courtesy it would have never had to come to that. I smoke, so believe me I know where I come from on this. I think it's insane that I'm not allowed to smoke outside of a building unless I walk to the very edge of the road. Now guess where all those cigarette buts get thrown, because there isn't a garbage can that far away for people.

As pertaining to my signature file as another example, some parents let their kids eat junk food all day long and sit on the couch and play PlayStation. Some "enlightened" school administrator then thinks it would be a good idea to force all the kids to eat "good old mother earth" type junk that couldn't keep a rabbit alive. Hey, I ate plenty of junk when I was in school and drank plenty of pop on top of that, but I also played outside and did other things other than playing video games all day long. Sure, we had video games back in my day, but I didn't sit there like a zombie for two days straight on it either.

Some yahoo thinks it's a good idea to hold a firecracker in his hand or shoot it at his neighbor, and now in the "freest" country on earth we can't light off fireworks to celebrate the 4th of July. Somebody else thinks it would be fun to stick his feet in a washing machine, and now they put stickers on them that says not to do that.

People lack common sense or good judgement, or are just too lazy to do the right thing, and so then what happens is those "certain" people in politics that think you really are too dumb to run your own life gladly write yet another new law to gain further control over you. You play right into the hands of these people. You know who I'm talking about, those professional politicians from certain parties who have never held a real job in their life yet think they know how capitalism should work better than those who actually are part of it in the real world.

Just because you feel you have the right to do something does not mean you should go about it in the most outlandish offensive way when it comes to certain things. You have the right to play loud music, but not in a car going down the street that is so loud that it shakes the cars next to it. Nobody wants to hear how bad your music is.

Let me make sure I'm clear here. I'm not in favor of any of these laws, but I am saying don't give others a reason to have a problem with it. I'm just more in favor of the public policing themselve's then letting it come down to yet another feel good law that punishes all of us.

I think I have a rather good idea for this problem amongst the metal detecting crowd. Why don't we get the moderator to post a stickie at the top of this forum that says "HALL OF SHAME" or something like that. Those who get caught on video or with a picture digging huge holes with shovels (even the shorter style ones), or even those who get caught with their own words in a message about doing something wrong, such as somebody who might have been hunting at night in the dark in a public place. Little things like that that people say in their own words. They should get a picture in that stickie of them doing something, or an excerpt of their words from their own message should be posted as proof of their deserving Wall Of Shame status.

Better yet, in addition to this a small message should be forced to be attached to the bottom of every one of their messages much like a signature file that says something like "This person has shown unethical behavior in the hobby of metal detecting, and should be closely watched to insure no further incidents happen." Much like a drunk driver license plate. And guess what, if they would happen to be caught a second time on video, via a picture, or in their own words doing something else that can jeopardize our hobby then they should be banned from the forum. Who's with me on this? I think that would be one heck of an idea. Somebody run it by the moderator. I'm sure some will find it quite fun to rummage through old videos and pictures to find people doing things like digging crater holes, using shovels, hunting at night in a public place, getting right up against people in a park or at the beach. The list is endless.

 

[therover]

Isn't our right and stated in the Constitution that we are SUPPOSED to light fireworks off on July 4th ?

We are getting too 'politically correct' and you are right...common sense is starting to be a thing of the past.

The not smoking outdside really cracks me up. I dont' smoke, and the only place I really don't like it is when I am eating ( which I am glad they banned if from resturants). But designated places outside are nuts...especially in outside bars. You can't drink outside the bar ( even if it's ALREADY outside), and you can't smoke inside ( BUT IT'S OUTSIDE !), so what do you do...straddle the imaginary line so you can both drink and smoke ?

 

[BARGuy]

Ya, I questioned the wisdom of some dude on one of the forums digging in parks with a long handled camp shovel...He showed his pic with the tool and a recovery in the park. He jumped straddle of me & asked me who was I to question his methods in his particular area!

Just another brick in the wall!

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Not too hard to understand.

 

[MNCoinhunter]

So, are you saying that you throw your cigarette butts on the street because you're too lazy to bend over, put it out, throw it in your pocket and keep it until you find a garbage can? Just asking..

 

[ewar]

I've taken to digging my plugs now with one side still attached like a hinge and then just fold it out of the ground. This makes it cleaner when it goes back in since it hasn't been shifted in relation to how it sits in the ground.

Howdy y'all. I'm new to metal detecting, and this was a major concern of mine. This is also my method at the parks I've hit. I saw a landscaper looking at where I dug a coin and he had a hand on his hip and scratched his head as if he couldn't find my "hole". I took that as a complement.

I too have a Garrett pro pointer and it is awesome.

I reckon some folks feel entitled to do as they please, to hell with the larger consequences. Like Critterhunter said

If people don't start using common sense it won't be long before most of our spots are off limits.

Common sense, sorry to say, seems to be pretty uncommon now-a-days.

Regards, ewar

 

[hershey1]

You have a certain amount of people that could care less about filling holes much less making it look as though no one had been there. Leave a place like it was your own yard. O well look at some yards. JM 2. HH

 

[bigsquid55]

A shovel means a BIG hole to non-detectorists. Learn how to dig w/ a 6" blade digger!

 

[jmaryt]

apathy and indifference is killing the hobby!
i know!..i know!..perhaps too negative,however let's NOT fool ourselves!
IF we don't ALL do it right!..we DON'T do it at all,because you WILL get to know
YOUR yard intimately,and no where else!

(h.h!)
j.t.

 

[jmaryt]

this a88hole is definately part of the problem!..a camp shovel?..(w.t.f!)

(h.h!)
j.t

 

[jmaryt]

been huntin' over thirty years!..i agree totally with this post!
no shovels,except in the woods,or farm fields!..out of site preferably!

(h.h!)
j.t.

 

[Idaho-Marke]

Take this point to heart. In Boise, ID they don't even let you use a knife. Only a screwdriver. Never did get the technique down, but Orv (the younger one) Farmer from the Boise "BBSRC Metal Detecting Club" is a champ. Suspect Dad is too, but I didn't get to hunt with him.

A big shovel scares park maintenance people who are trying to keep the place looking nice. More and more trespassing, leaving holes, and other thoughtless acts are causing those who have the power to restrict MDing, to do so.

Take some time to show your MD pals who are struggling to find the target the proper way to do so, and to cut a plug that doesn't kill the grass and other skills. Ya it might slow you down a bit that day, but your time where you can enjoy your hobby without complications will be increased due to kindness begetting kindness. Respect them and they may you.

Be the solution. Share your recovery skills.

 

[Critterhunter]

So, are you saying that you throw your cigarette butts on the street because you're too lazy to bend over, put it out, throw it in your pocket and keep it until you find a garbage can? Just asking..

No, no where did I say that. I was saying that guess where most people now throw their cigarettes. It's human nature to be lazy, thus many of the problems with ethical behavior in metal detecting.

 

[Critterhunter]

The above accusation is exactly my whole point and is a perfect example of what I'm saying. Perceptions and the tendency to assume the worst is why we must take careful precautions in how we are seen in public. I don't care how good you are at repairing a hole dug when using a shovel of some sort. The public will take one look at that and start making phone calls. Perfect example, thank you for illustrating what I meant.

 

[JeffNS]

I use a small hand held digger (Jackson Digger) BUT...one of the most knowledgable metal detecting guru's on the planet subsribes to what he refers to as "Non-destructive recovery technique". Does the name Tom Dankowski ring a bell? He uses a shovel and his reasons why are hard to argue with. I do agree that alot of non-MDers would get a knot in their britches if they saw us with shovels but when used correctly a shovel will do LESS damage than when using and cutting a plug of smaller diameter. I tend to cut my plugs alot larger than I did when I first got into the hobby but noticed on subsequent hunts that some of my small diameter plugs turned brown. I know cut my plugs (leaving a hinge) not less than 6" - 7" in diameter and generally cut them below the suspected target depth. A larger diameter/deeper plug is LESS destructive. PERIOD. But they do say perception is reality so what's a fella to do. I do know that if I were to be granted permission to MD private land I would educate the owner as to the least destructive recovery technique and would use a small shovel.

Cheers

 

[oldcoon]

I don't have a Garrett Pro Pointer. :sad: Does that mean they are going to outlaw metal detecting?

 

[MNCoinhunter]

So, are you saying that you throw your cigarette butts on the street because you're too lazy to bend over, put it out, throw it in your pocket and keep it until you find a garbage can? Just asking..

No, no where did I say that. I was saying that guess where most people now throw their cigarettes. It's human nature to be lazy, thus many of the problems with ethical behavior in metal detecting.

I see your point. I was just trying to be smart-ass in a funny way..

 

[trkdrvr36]

A friend of mine takes care of the local ballpark he says he prefers a small shovel because the plugs from a smaller tool tend to be pulled up by the mower. but like stated above perception is reality i use a knife.HH!!!!

 

[Crispy Critter]

I use a small hand held digger (Jackson Digger) BUT...one of the most knowledgable metal detecting guru's on the planet subsribes to what he refers to as "Non-destructive recovery technique". Does the name Tom Dankowski ring a bell? He uses a shovel and his reasons why are hard to argue with. I do agree that alot of non-MDers would get a knot in their britches if they saw us with shovels but when used correctly a shovel will do LESS damage than when using and cutting a plug of smaller diameter. I tend to cut my plugs alot larger than I did when I first got into the hobby but noticed on subsequent hunts that some of my small diameter plugs turned brown. I know cut my plugs (leaving a hinge) not less than 6" - 7" in diameter and generally cut them below the suspected target depth. A larger diameter/deeper plug is LESS destructive. PERIOD. But they do say perception is reality so what's a fella to do. I do know that if I were to be granted permission to MD private land I would educate the owner as to the least destructive recovery technique and would use a small shovel.

Cheers

I have to agree. I do the same and have never had a problem in parks or otherwise. Could have something to do with my good looks and sunny personality though.

 

[jmaryt]

the phycological impact of using a 'shovel" in a park that has closely mowed grass
is devastating to the casual observer,and WILL create in someone's mind a perceived act of destruction.

(h.h!)
j.t.