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With all the talk of the new F75 I presume that it means there is not going to to be a new CZ
- Thread starter george
- Start date
BarnacleBill
New member
Aside from a sparse press release on the BH & Fisher web sites FT has not communicated anything to the current Fisher customer base. With a previously projected release date of Nov. 15th for the F75 & F4 they provided very little information to the dealers. Even Mr. Bill has been left to posting low res faxes to try to provide some information on the F75. Word is that both new machines are single frequency in the 13kHz area, not dual frequency like a CZ.
FT has provided no road map of what will continue to be produced in the Fisher line, so once dealer stock is depleted of current machines, then that may be it for the CZ line, including the 3D. Dealers are taking pre-orders on products that are not even finalized, let alone in production. Those who have placed orders are doing it on blind faith that FT will come up with something they like.
It seems most Fisher customers are just sitting on their hands because FT has not given them reason to do otherwise. If the current Fisher owners had wished to purchase a T2 they would have already done so. That leaves FT in the position of trying to sell a T2 like machine, to a group of detectorists that already in essence made up their minds on not buying a T2. FT has asserted that this is an all new design and not a updated T2(T3). So their is a very strange paradigm occurring, T2 owners have descended on the forum looking for a T3, and castigating the Fisher owners for questioning any aspect of the T2, and what they hope will be the T3(F75). Meanwhile many Fisher owners are looking at the F75 as a new T2 with Fisher decals. Also to many Fisher customers the F4 looks like a Bounty Hunter 3300 with a new coil and Fisher decals.
There is some irony here because many Fisher CZ fans feel a cruel joke has been played on them. That being that FT hired David Johnson the original designer of the CZ's, leading them to believe a new improved line of CZ's would be developed. And I think that is what CZ fans are praying for, a new updated CZ line with more modern technology, having better deep iron rejection as well as a few other items.
FT in the BH line currently has no saltwater machines. The T2 is not a saltwater machine, and the F4 or F75 will not be a saltwater machine. The 3D is the lone machine they have left in that market, and it's design is not targeted at that market. Is it any wonder then that they are losing beach hunter market share to Minelab, and will continue to do so with every passing day?
To my mind the have not chosen a wise path. I believe they would have been much better off to bring out the F75 as a T3 and keep it in the Teknetics brand. That would have especially made the T2 owners very happy as they could go off and merrily club one another over the head on the T2 vs the T3.
To the current Fisher customers a few simple statements would retain their loyalty and interest.
1. A list of the Fisher machines that they planned to continue producing.
2. A commitment to produce two new CZs, one for land, and one underwater machine in a 18 to 24 months time frame.
3. An invitation to elicit comments on what these new designs should incorporate, within reason.
Aside from that one would hope that in private they would engage in a dialogue with previous Fisher field testers to elicit their opinions and HELP. There are many serious detectorists that are willing to help guide a product to market, and they are willing to sign non-disclosures to that end. The independent feedback to a Chief Engineer or Product Manager is invaluable in bringing to market a successful machine in this market segment. FT needs to recognize that this is a different ball game from selling into the big box stores or Radio Shack, which are the $200 cash and carry customers.
HH
BarnacleBill
FT has provided no road map of what will continue to be produced in the Fisher line, so once dealer stock is depleted of current machines, then that may be it for the CZ line, including the 3D. Dealers are taking pre-orders on products that are not even finalized, let alone in production. Those who have placed orders are doing it on blind faith that FT will come up with something they like.
It seems most Fisher customers are just sitting on their hands because FT has not given them reason to do otherwise. If the current Fisher owners had wished to purchase a T2 they would have already done so. That leaves FT in the position of trying to sell a T2 like machine, to a group of detectorists that already in essence made up their minds on not buying a T2. FT has asserted that this is an all new design and not a updated T2(T3). So their is a very strange paradigm occurring, T2 owners have descended on the forum looking for a T3, and castigating the Fisher owners for questioning any aspect of the T2, and what they hope will be the T3(F75). Meanwhile many Fisher owners are looking at the F75 as a new T2 with Fisher decals. Also to many Fisher customers the F4 looks like a Bounty Hunter 3300 with a new coil and Fisher decals.
There is some irony here because many Fisher CZ fans feel a cruel joke has been played on them. That being that FT hired David Johnson the original designer of the CZ's, leading them to believe a new improved line of CZ's would be developed. And I think that is what CZ fans are praying for, a new updated CZ line with more modern technology, having better deep iron rejection as well as a few other items.
FT in the BH line currently has no saltwater machines. The T2 is not a saltwater machine, and the F4 or F75 will not be a saltwater machine. The 3D is the lone machine they have left in that market, and it's design is not targeted at that market. Is it any wonder then that they are losing beach hunter market share to Minelab, and will continue to do so with every passing day?
To my mind the have not chosen a wise path. I believe they would have been much better off to bring out the F75 as a T3 and keep it in the Teknetics brand. That would have especially made the T2 owners very happy as they could go off and merrily club one another over the head on the T2 vs the T3.
To the current Fisher customers a few simple statements would retain their loyalty and interest.
1. A list of the Fisher machines that they planned to continue producing.
2. A commitment to produce two new CZs, one for land, and one underwater machine in a 18 to 24 months time frame.
3. An invitation to elicit comments on what these new designs should incorporate, within reason.
Aside from that one would hope that in private they would engage in a dialogue with previous Fisher field testers to elicit their opinions and HELP. There are many serious detectorists that are willing to help guide a product to market, and they are willing to sign non-disclosures to that end. The independent feedback to a Chief Engineer or Product Manager is invaluable in bringing to market a successful machine in this market segment. FT needs to recognize that this is a different ball game from selling into the big box stores or Radio Shack, which are the $200 cash and carry customers.
HH
BarnacleBill
Hi BBill
You do have some good questions there. Hopefully there will be some answers forthcoming, but I seriously doubt that it will be the 3 direct statements your asking for.
I can't agree with you on the CZ thing, although I would like to see one. I don't see where FT has ever mentioned they would produce a CZ series. Perhaps I missed something. The old Fisher company is who dropped the CZ, and I can't see the new company picking up on older designs.
Dave Johnson has been with First Texas for many years. Just about when the Troy X-5, and the White's MXT was in development, he went to them.
Just a few comments from an old coot
Mr. Bill
You do have some good questions there. Hopefully there will be some answers forthcoming, but I seriously doubt that it will be the 3 direct statements your asking for.
I can't agree with you on the CZ thing, although I would like to see one. I don't see where FT has ever mentioned they would produce a CZ series. Perhaps I missed something. The old Fisher company is who dropped the CZ, and I can't see the new company picking up on older designs.
Dave Johnson has been with First Texas for many years. Just about when the Troy X-5, and the White's MXT was in development, he went to them.
Just a few comments from an old coot
Mr. Bill
It may look like a T-2, but I am sure it will be different even though it looks like one.We will know for sure once someone gets one to try and does a report.
Many talk about the CZ series and these were great detectors, but what says this F75 isn't a improvement over the CZ's. I never liked the CZ that much for my hunting and never seen a Fisher do that well up here in ND, but have seen the T-2 do well. Being it does and the F75 has one of the same people (Dave Johnson) designing it that also helped with the Shadow X5 I understand plus the MXT which both are excellent detector I didn't hesitate to put my order in for the new F75 as I feel it too will be a excellent detector and yet will be different then the T-2 even though it looks the same. Time will tell when some get out to actually use it and not speculate what it will do and will not do.
Many talk about the CZ series and these were great detectors, but what says this F75 isn't a improvement over the CZ's. I never liked the CZ that much for my hunting and never seen a Fisher do that well up here in ND, but have seen the T-2 do well. Being it does and the F75 has one of the same people (Dave Johnson) designing it that also helped with the Shadow X5 I understand plus the MXT which both are excellent detector I didn't hesitate to put my order in for the new F75 as I feel it too will be a excellent detector and yet will be different then the T-2 even though it looks the same. Time will tell when some get out to actually use it and not speculate what it will do and will not do.
Jackpine Savage
Active member
is if First Texas/Fisher will produce a serious new deep turf coin detector. Face it, the CZ in all its iterations is going on 15 years old and the Coinstrike although a very good detector never caught on as well as Fisher would have liked. First Texas certainly is going to weed out any detector in the Fisher line that is loser and you can't blame them for that. Fisher was doing a very good job of losing money for years before the buyout due to, in part, a couple new detectors that did not sell well.
If Dave and the rest of the engineers were to cook up a lightweight ergonomic machine that is at least an equal to the Explorer, and market it under the Fisher name FT would capture a very large market share.
Tom
If Dave and the rest of the engineers were to cook up a lightweight ergonomic machine that is at least an equal to the Explorer, and market it under the Fisher name FT would capture a very large market share.
Tom
Comparing apples to apples is also an important marketing strategy. Remember there are more marketing strategies going on, than just the pro end.
There's a good market for low end detectors that find in the top 4" of soil. Low income,children,all still enjoy the hobby just as well the Pro's. Get a child out in a park and watch their interest grow in what your up to in the ground. They get their hard drives full quickly and dream of the treasures yet unfound. Just like us aren't they....
So hopefully... we can help these companies develope their complete line of detectors best suited for them to make a great living, and help pay for continued research and developement of low end and top end detectors that put smiles on our faces every time we pull our very own treasure from the ground!
Sure there will be some detectors that the pros look at like a joke...but put that same detector in the incompedent hands of a child treasure hunter and watch it bring the same wonderful excitment, thrill, and smile, to their faces that the pro has as he or she pulls that find of a life time!
Treasure is in the eye of the beholder. And I thank the good Lord for the companies that manufacture our smiles!
Thanks FT/Bounty Hunter/Garrett/Fisher/Compass/Radio Shack/Whites/Minelab/Tecknetics/and all the manufacturers who create smiles.
Special Thanks to George Payne,Dave Johnson.
Honorable mentions and Thanks to our Dealers/Jeff/Bill/Ron/TC/East Texas/ And all Dealers across the world!
There's a good market for low end detectors that find in the top 4" of soil. Low income,children,all still enjoy the hobby just as well the Pro's. Get a child out in a park and watch their interest grow in what your up to in the ground. They get their hard drives full quickly and dream of the treasures yet unfound. Just like us aren't they....
So hopefully... we can help these companies develope their complete line of detectors best suited for them to make a great living, and help pay for continued research and developement of low end and top end detectors that put smiles on our faces every time we pull our very own treasure from the ground!
Sure there will be some detectors that the pros look at like a joke...but put that same detector in the incompedent hands of a child treasure hunter and watch it bring the same wonderful excitment, thrill, and smile, to their faces that the pro has as he or she pulls that find of a life time!
Treasure is in the eye of the beholder. And I thank the good Lord for the companies that manufacture our smiles!
Thanks FT/Bounty Hunter/Garrett/Fisher/Compass/Radio Shack/Whites/Minelab/Tecknetics/and all the manufacturers who create smiles.
Special Thanks to George Payne,Dave Johnson.
Honorable mentions and Thanks to our Dealers/Jeff/Bill/Ron/TC/East Texas/ And all Dealers across the world!
Dixie Digger
New member
i just don't understand any company dropping the best machine they ever made (CZ20).don't they know how many of these they would sell if they brought them back!