XP deus

[bobajob]

As a metal detectorist for many years in England and a member of the two dales club for years ,I am astonished when I read articles about the XP deus, people wondering if its a wonderful new concept, ie 4 frequency's 1 coil, the new design package etc, what is it all about?? well having moved to France two years ago, a place absolutely littered with treasure, Cather's, Templar's, Romans, french revolution etc, etc.. the grand home to thousands upon thousands of castles and treasure everywhere, I can now enlighten you, when I first came to France I brought my trusty detector with me, but to my absolute dismay France is one of the two places on gods earth where metal detecting is illegal? the other being Sweden, I even researched well where I wanted to live for my hobby before I came, I did not realise that the french government (idiots) would rather have its heritage left under the ground to rot, you may ask yourself... but if that is the case why is one of the biggest manufacturers of metal detectors ie XP based in France? and why the XP deus? the answer is simple my friends the deus is designed in a dark neutral colour, it has a torch, the control box fits in a small leather wallet on your belt, you do not need to carry about coils, it folds up neatly and quickly to fit inside your coat, it is wireless so you can slip on the compact headphones( also a control box) in a second, YES it is designed to be used by french people to go NIGHT HAWKING illegally and sell there ill gotten gains on eBay to the world, shame about the heritage France! no museums full of wonderful relics for people to be amazed at, no tourism to see wonderful objects such as the middleham jewel, as in the york museum where I came from in England, yes good old France full of the most stupidest people on the planet including me now! enough said...

 

[Denar]

As far as I know metal detecting is not illegal in France but there are some restrictions. You can detect the beaches without a problem except on the beaches of Normandy. You need permission from the authorities to detect inland and it is reasonable easy to get, with some exceptions. I have talked with some detectorist while visiting France, they detect there and I do not think they are "night hawks"
I use Deus in Poland where I live and it is an amazing machine indeed.

 

[bobajob]

Hi Denar in case you are unfamiliar with Article L 542 of the French Patrimony Code, it says: Nobody can use equipment that allows the detection of metal objects, relating to seeking monuments or objects that could relate to prehistory, art or archaeology, without having, in advance, obtained an administrative authorisation delivered in relation to the qualifications of the seeker & the nature & methods of the research.

So Denar to detect here for artifacts that may be of interest to the heritage of France you need permission from the local Government office for your region. To date, I am unaware of one single case where permission has been given !

The French permit system is so prohibitive that no ordinary detectorist can get a permit and what is more you cannot even discover the qualifications that are needed??

I too have met detectorists here in France and they are very passionate about history and the heritage of France, but most finds go unrecorded because of the archaic system here. The fine is 7,500 euros removal of your equipment and in some cases imprisonment!

to get round this situation the (AFP) Association Francaise de Prospecteurs (Metal detecting club of France) have started a scheme called S.O.S, which simply put is a recovery service and provides a legalish.. document, which the metal detectorist gives to a willing landowner, who then writes in the space provided that he has lost a tractor key, or a ring or anything that springs to mind, and you both sign this, and then you can wander about all day on his land detecting without the horrible feeling that you are a criminal, yes Denar it is a way round it, but it certainly is not the sort of thing that an honest person like me really wants to do, to simply pursue his hobby...........

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I would bet there are no shortage of French md'ing enthusiasts. And probably dealers there? And they certainly are detecting somewhere (like beaches, as Denar gives as an example). And if the laws you cite really are that extensive, when then, is no one bothering them? The laws you cite are similar to the USA's "ARPA" laws. Yet detecting goes on here, and no one cares, as long as you're not on federal land with historic monuments. That's because it only applies to federal land, and even then-so, as your own text states, covers "archaeological" objects. So presto, you're only looking for modern change ... right? Or why not detect private land (farmers fields with permission) which are outside the scope of the public land rule??

You are probably going to answer that last question, by saying that the law extends down, even to the private land level in France, right? And as proof of that, you will probably cite your "getting permission to look for a lost plow blade" from the fed's, right? I mean, afterall, in your mind, they would not have "given that permission", if it was needed, to begin with, right? Instead, they might have said something like: "why are you asking us, you silly person?" But human nature (of authorities) doesn't work that way. For example: I bet that .... right now ..... if I asked our city, county, state, or federal govt., here in the USA: "Hi, I just lost a plow blade on my farm land. May I please use a detector to find it?". I bet that I too, could receive an answer "granting me permission". Ie.: "go ahead, have a blast, etc..." And would I infer from that, that permission was therefore then necessary? (lest they wouldn't have granted permission, in the first place?). On the contrary, authories are more than willing to grant their say-so, when you ask them permission for something. Afterall, you asked didn't you? That only implies to them that "gee, I guess I'll be a nice guy today" or "gee, I guess this was illegal [with enough morphing of things perhaps they didn't even care about], so I guess it's my kingly duty to make Solomonic decision here".

This psychology has been the case in other countries, where people inquire ahead of time, or read dusty boiler-plate minutia, and end up thinking that detecting is not allowed in whatever country they're about to visit. Imagine their surprise when they arrive, and see another(s) on the beach, or elsewhere, and no one cares less?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Here's some dealers in France: If you go to Garrett's "find a dealer" page on their webiste, and choose the international search option. The pick "France". You will see 3 dealers, for just Garrett alone.

http://www.garrett.com/hobby/hbby_how_to_buy.asp

I didn't even do a search for the other manufacturers (Whites, Fisher, Tesoro, Minelab, etc....).

So just curious, who are these dealers selling to, and for what purpose, if md'ing isn't allowed? Industrial applications only? (ie.: finding nails in tree cutting/logging, or air-port detectors, or ........ ?)

 

[bobajob]

Hi Tom,
unfortunately and I apologise for going of the Topic slightly, if you came to the rural part of France I live in, and bought yourself a nice little house in a charming hamlet and you then went out and bought yourself a nice little french car to drive about in, and got stopped by the gendarme which happens all the time, me personally three times in two years and I am quite lucky some others have been stopped every other week, but you would be put in prison my friend because your driving permit is not legal in this country, and if you like I will get my good friend Winona a nice retired American lady to tell you herself if you like, because she to came from your area and that is what happened to her, it also happened to another of my friends from New Zealand, this is just one of the many uncountable and unsettling things about this beautiful country, I for example drove here in my Mercedes from England only 600 miles away and yet after one month of living here I was hauled in by the police and they demanded that I change my number plates to french ones, the law is one month then you must change the number plates to french ones, this is not an easy task and takes many documents and costs around 800euro for my car a 220 CDI and my friends jag XJS 3,400 euros as it is based on emissions, this not so charming policeman whom reminded me of a Nazi war film I once watched also demanded in quite good English (that I must learn to speak french), something I had already been taking lessons in and finding quite difficult at my age, but I did feel a bit pissed off with him that was for sure as my father was tail gun charlie in a Lancaster bomber and was severely brain damaged during WW11 and walked only with help off two sticks for the rest of his life, my great uncle died over France in a Sopwith camel in WW1 and because of the sacrifice of members of my family this not so pleasant Jackboot Johnny would not be speaking french he would be speaking German now!! I know this is a forum for metal detectorists but I have to cite you a few valid points why it is not so easy to just do what you like and get away with it in France! smoking as you maybe aware is also banned in public places in France, and in bars owned by the English this is certainly the case and the gendarme will close them down instantly if this occurs. they check our local English owned bar every hour by driving past to make sure the English and the french are out side in the pouring rain/snow/hail/frost etc smoking and smile in a rather awful way, is smoking banned in French owned Bars yes, but you will see people including off duty Gendarme smoking in them, yes your quite right it is racism in its worst form and actually reminds me off the many horrible things that happened early on in the conflict to the Jewish people in Germany, so if you think for one minute that the Gendarme will just let this English chap go round public land metal detecting you are quite wrong, but I will agree that a lot of the french will get away with it!, a large proportion of the french by nature are a very secular lot and very suspicious, this came around at the time of the revolution, nobody trusting anybody, and also because the hamlets are far apart and it is a very large country with only the same population as small old great Britain, and with most of those residing in the big cities, also a ban on incest has only just come about in the last year (it was well documented in the french news at the time) because it was rife and out of hand in these small hamlets and farms, this adding to the secular and interbred nature of the rural french, and of course because they thought the English were quite potty a few years ago as they sold them old Houses/Barns/Cottages for what they thought was a lot of money but what the English thought was peanuts, and now unfortunately this has lead to an invasion of Brits all over France and a lot of French Racists, why did I come here, actually to enjoy the french culture and laugh and joke with the french over glasses full of cheap red wine, see the many historical interesting places, and of course to pursue my hobby, Big mistake! I only know this part of France and I have had a belly full of insults and crap in the last two years off of the local authorities. Conclusion 50% of the local french are fantastic wonderful people and 50% are utterly anti English, and that percentage is difficult to live with.. any way Tom the answer is NO I cannot get away with it and neither would you, and yes you probably would on the tourist beaches but, the sign is there on my nearest beach in big letters NO METAL DETECTING/NO DOGS nuf said..

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hmm, you say: " .......... but I will agree that a lot of the french will get away with it!," and ".... and "yes you probably would on the tourist beaches " Well gee then, I guess all a person needs is knowledge of French, a car that passes license plate muster, and presto!

My sister married a French guy, and they return to France every few years, to visit in-laws. We have a plan, that some day I'm going to go with my sister and him on one of their trips, and have him be my guide. So what you are writing, is very interesting. I'll have to see what he says about your "Gendarme's" lurking everywhere to rough up people (especially tourists and non-French people ).

I heard the same fears and warnings about going to Mexico: "oh no! don't drink the water!!" "the cops are all corrupt and you'll end up in a Mexican jail with keys thrown away" etc.. etc... etc .... But to the contrary, the nicest people were there, as long as you weren't stupid and hanging out in the bad areas, or asking for trouble. But none-the-less, sure: there's corruption and thugs everywhere. I suppose some French tourists, who have been mugged in NY central park, might, in the same way, pass the word to fellow French "watch your behind in the USA", blah blah blah. And yes, I have no doubt that perhaps the French police could be worse, etc.... But the point is, you have acknowledged that detecting is not un-heard of there, which is the point of this.

 

[bobajob]

-- moved topic --

 

[bobajob]

Hi Tom,
nicely followed up, but of course you would also need a new driving permit, and have to pass your driving test again, and yes I have heared all the tales about Mexico, and almost every where else in south america, and also a lot of the other countries on the globe, hire cars in south africa come a with a pistol in the glove box etc,etc, But I never heard of anything like this in France before I came here, and you have to live here to to belive it, all I had ever witnessed was lovely cute progams about people buying houses here in France and enjoying all the things I also expected to enjoy, below is a press report clip from the British heritage action group (british anti metal detecting group) enjoy...

26/03/2009 in Metal detecting | by heritageaction

A group of French metal detectorists (from ANDL, the National Association for the Metal Detection of Leisure) has started sending details of their finds for recording at the Roman Legion Museum of Caerleon, in Wales, asking for an

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Bobajob, very interesting quote. Thanx for putting it here. Here's my comments on it:

Go figure the source of this: It's all said by an archaeologist. And did you catch the drift in his last sentences? If it were up to him, it would be illegal to detect in England too!

To me, everything that's going on there, that he's recounting, only makes me think, all the more, that we are our own worst enemies, by seeking sanction, permission, asking for clarifications, etc.... where apparently, no one cares (till you ask). I mean, take the entire concept by which this archie has "become aware" and is "making his comments based on": Stupid md'rs wanting their objects recorded, known, blared about, somehow thinking this will further their cause?? Perhaps in England it "furthers their cause", but for pete's sake, why aren't those guys in France, who are apparently detecting unbothered, just keeping their friggin mouths shut?? Sheesk!

Let me give you an example Bobajob: Where I'm at, along the coast of California, there is a designated section of our coastline, that stretches for a few hundred miles (from about San Francisco to about San Luis Obispo), that is call the "Monterey Bay Marine Sanctuary". In brief, it's like an under-sea preserve, with special rules to protect sea-life, forbids harvesting of kelp, forbids oil-drilling, and other such "park like" rules. It was born out of the idea that there are beautiful undersea marvels here, that attract scuba divers, nature people, etc.... from all over the world to come here and enjoy. Sounds good enough, right?

Within this hundreds of miles of coast-line, there are a combination of federal, state, county, and perhaps city-owned beaches. If there is any cross-over of rules, from this over-arching "sancturary habitat" thing, verses, let's say, a city beach within this zone, the "stricter rule prevails". Ok, you with me so far? I decided one day, to see if any of the sanctuary rules might be morphed, to disallow metal detecting. Because, afterall, the rules apply all the way up to the high tide mark. And sure enough, there is cultural heritage wording, etc.... Nothing specific about metal detecting per se, but nonetheless, the boiler plate language, that perhaps sounds a little like ARPA type stuff. For example, it is forbidden to remove "archaeological features or objects", etc.... So I sent an anonymous email to the Sanctuary's website contact tab, asking "how is an archaeological object defined? For example, if I was walking down the beach, after a storm, and spotted an old bottle sticking out of the sand, or pretty beach polished glass shards, would these be such items?". The answer I got, was sort of an "it depends" type answer. But an example, they gave, of a similar item picked up, after beach erosion, was a couple who had picked up a rusty wagon wheel rim (like from the horse-&-buggy days) they found exposed, after erosion. Like, they must've thought "this will look cool in our garden", or whatever. Somehow, the sanctuary personell got wind of this, and the couple had to return it, so that it could be "repatriated" to where it had been picked up at, etc... And the answer also told me that "50 yrs old", was also a date they could apply, to determine if an object had "archaeological significance", etc... Now you tell me Bobajob: If you, or I, were to have asked this person a little more direct question specifically about metal detecting, and finds we *could* make, what do you think they would say? I mean, I've found Spanish Reales, seateds halves, some gold coins from the 1800's, etc... hunting our beaches here. Why would the answer for those, be any different than the wagon rim from the 1800s? So while I DIDN'T DARE ask if my metal detecting, or the specific object I find, are legal, you can EASILY SEE where that conversation would go, right?

So in other words, some people might read these sanctuary rules, and wonder if it applies to them. And sure enough, if they asked enough people (better safe than sorrry right? better ask, just to make sure, right?), far enough up the chain of command, with the right combination of inferences, they would most certainly get a "no". But here's where it gets interesting!! Detecting has gone on, all along our coast line, for the past 40+ yrs, and no one cares less! Yup, you can do it right in front of rangers, people, cops, lifegaurds, etc.... You will never be bothered, and no one cares. But do you see the difference Bobajob? Unlike your French people, no one here is begging for sanction, and parading their finds in front of archaeologist's noses, just asking for trouble!

To find someone like the person you quoted, to render an opinion, like the one you quote, is sort of like asking someone from PETA ("People for the Ethical Treatement of Animals", a wacko animal rights extremist group) the following question: "Is it ok if I leave my pet bunny in the car for a minute, while I run into the store to grab a soda?". The PETA rep. would scream NOoooooo. You will be guilty of animal cruelty. You could face fines and penalties. How could you be so calouss and cruel! The poor bunny could suffer heat exhaustion, trauma, etc.... I would immediately report you to the SPCA, etc....". I mean what would you expect a PETA rep. to say, if you asked a question like that? So too is an answer from a purist archaeologist, very similar. What do you expect them to say? I mean, go figure, they hate md'ing. And even though no one else cares, and you might go un-bothered, of COURSE they will say you are going to end up in prison, etc.. (just like the PETA analogy). So the rule of thumb? Avoid those guys, and stop seeking to be their best buddy. It aint gonna happen, and you're just going to get places put off limits (or, in this case, enforced) where truth is, probably no one gives a r*tts *ss.

You said yourself that detecting is going on there, and apparently, as long as you're not a nuisance raiding obvious historic, or public, sites, it is simply ignored. Ie.: farmer's fields with permission. Do you really think that archie you quoted, is sitting there looking over the shoulder of detectorists way back in the boonies?

If I detect there, I'm not declaring my finds to archies in England. Those that do, I just don't understand their logic. They may be accustomed to that because of their British homeland, but based on what you quoted, they're just asking for trouble, by trying to "bring about" the same system for another country. And they're just going to "get things clarified" and end up getting rules written (or enforced where they previously only applied to large scale stripmining or pyramaid raiding, or shipwreck salvor type things) to apply to the sandbox hunters. Sheesk, sometimes we can be our own worst enemy!