Xterra Pro 4 Big Silvers=Iron

[KSDfisher77]

I'm curious if anybody has seen the xterra pro video floating about the ole web. The vid shows 4 big 1oz type silver coins, making the xterra pro to sound off like iron. The machine is 10khz, but i dont know what program. Would the 4 big silvers cause the machine to have wrap-around because of the big silver coins high conductivity. I'm wondering if it would do it in the other settings? Like 5khz? Or any other khz/program for that matter. Thanks.

 

[Old Longhair]

I haven't seen the video, but after reading your post I decided to conduct my own test to see what it was all about.

I grabbed a stack of 10 silver dollars to test with. I tested in 5 & 15kHz.
Mind you, this was also all air testing, which I don't put a lot of stock in. And IMO, fresh planted isn't much better than air.
One silver dollar gave the response we expect.
Two and three dollars stacked still sounded good.
After that things started to get a bit more interesting, and I saw 5kHz returning better tones than 15kHz, which didn't surprise me. Response started to vary depending on proximity to the coil. Close it started wrapping around, but a few inches away it still sounded good. As many as seven stacked up did about the same, but I needed to get progressively further away from the stack for a good response. By the time I got to all ten in the stack I had to back off to nearly the maximum detection distance or it would wrap around and sound like junk.

My conclusion is that it has to do with total mass combined with the conductivity of that mass. And when I say it sounded like junk, I mean that it was a mix of tones that we typically would attribute to trash. If I were in a park and I got tones that sounded like that, I would keep walking. But, If I were in a field like where I like to hunt, I'd be digging it thinking it might be something good mixed with iron debris.

 

[KSDfisher77]

I haven't seen the video, but after reading your post I decided to conduct my own test to see what it was all about.

I grabbed a stack of 10 silver dollars to test with. I tested in 5 & 15kHz.
Mind you, this was also all air testing, which I don't put a lot of stock in. And IMO, fresh planted isn't much better than air.
One silver dollar gave the response we expect.
Two and three dollars stacked still sounded good.
After that things started to get a bit more interesting, and I saw 5kHz returning better tones than 15kHz, which didn't surprise me. Response started to vary depending on proximity to the coil. Close it started wrapping around, but a few inches away it still sounded good. As many as seven stacked up did about the same, but I needed to get progressively further away from the stack for a good response. By the time I got to all ten in the stack I had to back off to nearly the maximum detection distance or it would wrap around and sound like junk.

My conclusion is that it has to do with total mass combined with the conductivity of that mass. And when I say it sounded like junk, I mean that it was a mix of tones that we typically would attribute to trash. If I were in a park and I got tones that sounded like that, I would keep walking. But, If I were in a field like where I like to hunt, I'd be digging it thinking it might be something good mixed with iron debris.

Thanks Longhair! I appreciate you conducting your own test & posting it. I havent tried it yet, but now I want to try the same test on my xterra pro & equinox 900. I do alot of field & old long gone homesites & I might want to know what to listen for. Never know a guy might be hunting & hit upon a bunch of silver dollars buried in a burlap sack!!!

 

[Old Longhair]

Thanks Longhair! I appreciate you conducting your own test & posting it. I havent tried it yet, but now I want to try the same test on my xterra pro & equinox 900. I do alot of field & old long gone homesites & I might want to know what to listen for. Never know a guy might be hunting & hit upon a bunch of silver dollars buried in a burlap sack!!!

Buried in a sack they will likely be spread out some. I only tested them in a neat stack, so I'll be interested in your findings.

 

[KSDfisher77]

Buried in a sack they will likely be spread out some. I only tested them in a neat stack, so I'll be interested in your findings.

Yeah the video i saw they were in a stack as well. They were air testing as well, on 10khz & it would do the minelab iron grunt & ID as -19 iron. I would think if a guy was in 5khz the ID might be a tad lower & increase in TID#'s as you go up in your khz range. I'm curious now, what is going to happen on the equinox 900? I'm kinda curious if this happens to minelab machines when you find a silver cache/hoard.

 

[Old Longhair]

Yeah the video i saw they were in a stack as well. They were air testing as well, on 10khz & it would do the minelab iron grunt & ID as -19 iron. I would think if a guy was in 5khz the ID might be a tad lower & increase in TID#'s as you go up in your khz range. I'm curious now, what is going to happen on the equinox 900? I'm kinda curious if this happens to minelab machines when you find a silver cache/hoard.

You've got that backwards. High conductors and low frequencies shake hands better than high frequencies. Decades ago, George Payne determined that the optimum frequency for silver dimes was 2.7kHz.

If you're looking for a gold hoard, then high frequency is what you want. It won't penetrate the ground as well as lower frequencies, but it will garner a better response from low conductors.

 

[KSDfisher77]

You've got that backwards. High conductors and low frequencies shake hands better than high frequencies. Decades ago, George Payne determined that the optimum frequency for silver dimes was 2.7kHz.

If you're looking for a gold hoard, then high frequency is what you want. It won't penetrate the ground as well as lower frequencies, but it will garner a better response from low conductors.

I might have worded that wrong, what I tried to say/mean. Wont a quarter have a slight lower TID # on 5khz, than the same quarter on 15khz. Say a quarter has a TID # of 89 on 5khz, wont that same quarter on 15khz have a slight higher TID# of say 90. Lol maybe I'm still backwards. I know that copper & silver respond better to a lower khz setting. Thanks.

 

[KSDfisher77]

Lmao it could be my clutch is slipping as I get older. But I thought a couple weeks ago when I was air testing a few things on different khz settings. I was getting a TID# of 88-89 on the quarter at 5khz. Then when I switched to 15khz I was getting a TID# of 90-91 on that same quarter. Lol I could of got my testing flip flopped around as well.

 

[Old Longhair]

Lmao it could be my clutch is slipping as I get older. But I thought a couple weeks ago when I was air testing a few things on different khz settings. I was getting a TID# of 88-89 on the quarter at 5khz. Then when I switched to 15khz I was getting a TID# of 90-91 on that same quarter. Lol I could of got my testing flip flopped around as well.

Properly ground balanced, the TID is more likely to be consistent with a low frequency and tend to be more jumpy with a high frequency due to target bin width assignments. Ground balance can't be overlooked, which is part of the reason I don't put much stock in air tests.

 

[KSDfisher77]

Properly ground balanced, the TID is more likely to be consistent with a low frequency and tend to be more jumpy with a high frequency due to target bin width assignments. Ground balance can't be overlooked, which is part of the reason I don't put much stock in air tests.

Thanks Longhair. I was going to ask if ground balance was throwing my results off. I'm not much of a air test guy either. Just like to see & hear how a machine reacts to different targets.

 

[Old Longhair]

Thanks Longhair. I was going to ask if ground balance was throwing my results off. I'm not much of a air test guy either. Just like to see & hear how a machine reacts to different targets.

Part of the reason that Ground Balance is so important when considering TID is that GB changes depending on the frequency selected. That WILL have an impact on target response and TID accuracy.

 

[KSDfisher77]

Part of the reason that Ground Balance is so important when considering TID is that GB changes depending on the frequency selected. That WILL have an impact on target response and TID accuracy.

I was taught/or learned from some older/more seasoned detectorist, that your ground balance is the most important part of your hunting. They also taught me to re-ground balance every 15-20 minutes. I also hunt with a slight threshold, because I think it gives you a indication of the changing ground minerals/ changes in the ground as your hunting. Lol i may be totally wrong thou to.

 

[Old Longhair]

I was taught/or learned from some older/more seasoned detectorist, that your ground balance is the most important part of your hunting. They also taught me to re-ground balance every 15-20 minutes. I also hunt with a slight threshold, because I think it gives you a indication of the changing ground minerals/ changes in the ground as your hunting. Lol i may be totally wrong thou to.

The threshold is particularly important when you're hunting with any DISC at all. Listening for the null is a valuable tool in more dense trash where masking is an issue.
Even though I run All Metal, I like having the threshold hum in the background because I want to hear everything that's going on. Even slight variances can be an indication of a very deep target if it's small and repeatable.

Proper GB is vital! That's why I tell everyone to run with Tracking ON. It's resetting itself every few seconds and is far more accurate than you can be.

 

[KSDfisher77]

I thought on sites with heavy iron/trash, you can run the risk of tracking your good targets away? I'm not sure how I'm wanting or trying to say this. Would this tracking effect your audio tone? Or would it only affect your TID/VDI #'s or both? Thanks.

 

[thepest]

My Tracking is still on.... targets are smaller... a little bit deeper... more brass and copper than before... little pieces of aluminum cans and pull tabs... instead of big chunks of garbage... and I'm finding more clad coins... Much better finer quality junk...

 

[KSDfisher77]

My Tracking is still on.... targets are smaller... a little bit deeper... more brass and copper than before... little pieces of aluminum cans and pull tabs... instead of big chunks of garbage... and I'm finding more clad coins... Much better finer quality junk...

If I get out in the next day or 2 I'm going to give it a go with tracking on. 1 thing I kinda 4got also is these machines are way more sophisticated & way quicker responding/processing detectors, than the older machines.

 

[Old Longhair]

Stories about Tracking costing you targets are pure BS. If they were true, you'd have heard more crying instead of raving from E-trac and CTX users.

Something that I do often is Noise Cancel. Changing location, frequencies, and/or sensitivity can easily cause a need to re-scan for the best NC channel.

 

[KSDfisher77]

Stories about Tracking costing you targets are pure BS. If they were true, you'd have heard more crying instead of raving from E-trac and CTX users.

Something that I do often is Noise Cancel. Changing location, frequencies, and/or sensitivity can easily cause a need to re-scan for the best NC channel.

Thanks Old Longhair. So on the Etrac & CTX is the tracking on them machines on all the time? I have been thinking about buying 1 of them detectors.

 

[Old Longhair]

Thanks Old Longhair. So on the Etrac & CTX is the tracking on them machines on all the time? I have been thinking about buying 1 of them detectors.

Yep! The Explorer SE, too. You don't even have an option. There's no user accessible GB function on any of them.