A few changes to the Sovereign... rehash

[jbow]

I know there was a thread about this but I cannot find it... probably right in front of me, but anyway...

I was thinking this morning about what i'd really think would make the Sovereign a better machine while keeping all the qualities we all love about it. First i'd like to see a Pro coil design for the Sovereign. Second i'd like to see the processor Minelab uses in the E-TRAC incorporated into the Sovereign. Third i'd like to see an adjustment, either with several presets or a 180+/- degree turn knob to adjust the recovery with a bypass switch that sets the recovery to the traditional Sovereign recovery rate. Fourth i'd like a switch to choose between a two tone (ferrous/non-ferrous) tone setting, multi-tones. or one tone.. all in discriminate mode.
Leave everything else alone... make it so that you can set it to run just like a Sovereign GT or adjust it for a faster or slower recovery, more tone options if you want, a better stock coil... so it will still be completely a Sovereign with options to change things if you choose... they might be able to make these option changes and keep it in the 1k range.

After thoughts...

I don't know if the Sovereign would benefit from changing it from BBS to FBS. With the ARM processor it might be powerful enough to choose between FBS and BBS... and I know I am asking for WAY too much if I were to hope for the frequency options of a Eureka Gold and a switch to change from multi-freq to single and from auto sensing to a manual GB and a freq offset.... that might require a coil change too and of course it would now cost more than an E-TRAC... laff.

In any case minimum, i'd like to see a Pro coil on the GT, the faster processor and adjustable recovery from slower to faster and everything inbetween... more tone options without losing the current audio.

J

 

[synthnut]

Julien,
As far as the coil goes , I think that you could come very close in the performance of the Pro Coil , by sticking a 10 x 12 SEF coil on your Sovereign .....It's not an exacting science here , but I would consider this match pretty close to the Pro Coil in performance ..... Some differences yes, but very similar just the same .....As far as the rest of the build on your newly fashioned "Sov Trac " ......I don't foresee Minelab doing anything like that in the future ......It's not about what the customer is looking for anymore ....It's about $$$$$$ now ..... They are part of a bigger entity now , and they are trying to hit us with big dollar increases while resting on their laurels .... Personally I think their greed will be their downfall .....They are making it easy for the competition to come out smelling like a Rose !!.......Jim

 

[dbsmokey]

They have raised the prices of both the Excal and Sov. I think it is logical to assume that they intend to discontinue these and combine these machines into one that will rival the AT Pro. I think it will be a wonderful machine and I can't wait for it!

 

[Andy Sabisch]

Minelab was born from innovative ideas and a way of detecting targets that truly set them apart from the rest in even the worst ground out there. Gold was found in Australia with the original Goldseeker model as if the areas had never been detected before. From my initial involvement with them which dates back to their first attempt to build a coin / relic detector, their innovation was second to none. Detectors such as the Excalibur and Explorer followed and the finds poured out of the ground.

As management changed and the vision appeared to be more corporate driven than what had started the company (an evolution many companies face), the actual innovation tapered off and repackaging or adding a minor feature or two started to come into view.

Detectors such as the X-Terra line were solid performers although likely a tad on the high end price-wise but the fluctuating dollar and not building them in the US hurt them as it has other non-US detector companies looking to sell in the US.

Looking at the detectors released in the last decade, have there been any that were truly revolutionary or just evolutionary? The E-Trac offers a number of new features but it is still an FBS detector as is the Explorer, Quattro and Safari. The Sovereign line internally has changed little since the first one rolled off the line nearly 20 years ago and many beach hunters I know still use their XS with similar results to those swinging a GT (a used Sovereign is a real bargain for what you can get one today). The latest X-Terra models were virtually identical to the originals . . . . . there is a reason the numbers went from XX to XX5 on the three of them rather than coming out as a new series; i.e., 70 to 80 vs 705 . . . . yes there were a few new features but has the actual performance increased? The pricing remaining the same says something doesn't it?

One of the reasons that was touted when Minelab moved production from Ireland to Malaysia was to control production costs and boost production to meet demand. The "meet demand" piece is still being worked out as many dealers still can attest to and with price increases coming for the same "guts", it is not clear how the "control production requests" piece is working out for the new company.

As someone that has used Minelab literally since day #1 and continues to use their equipment, it's a shame to see the development of totally new designs to have come to a halt at least in what is being released to the consumer. Their mine detection division is releasing new models and hopefully some of that technology will find itself in the consumer market. Resting on one's laurels has been the downfall for more than one detector company in the past . . . . . hopefully that is not in the cards but as they say, "Time will tell".

Andy Sabisch

 

[otlew]

I think now would be a good time for Dave Johnson of First Texas to bring his "Multiple Frequency" machine to the market, if he has it developed. He is quoted as saying he could do it. The corporate short sightedness at Minelab seems to be in full bloom and true competition is the only cure.

 

[Andy Sabisch]

Not sure what that combination would bring . . . . . and considering the AT Pro retails for nearly half of the Excal price, it would still be comparing apples and oranges. The AT Pro offers a number of innovative features in a water detector and considering the vast majority of water hunters will never exceed the 10 foot rating, it is ideal for that segment. Combine that with the target ID, iron ID and weight, there are a number of coin and relic hunters that are grabbing them for what they offer.

Will the AT Pro go as deep or deeper than the Sovereign or Excal? I seriously doubt that anyone - manufacturer or user - is making that claim simply based on the price and operating circuit but there a a great many hunters that wanted to get a water detector yet the family budget would not support it. There is a reason the the DetectorPro models are as popular as they are and the price is a factor in that. The AT Pro is yet anther affordable option that will appeal to many users out there.

Several people have posted that detectors are luxuries not necessities and with the economy the way it is, spending $1000+ for a detector that while may offer superior performance, might not be justifiable especially if you have to choose between bills and detectors. A number of people have questioned the pricing of the new GPX 4800 and 5000 models . . . . . . I know I would be in the doghouse if I had just spent $5,000+ on a detector unless I was bringing home the gold to cover the cost

Will be interesting to see what the coming year brings . . . but you can certain that the other manufacturers are also working on new and improved detectors as well . . .

Andy Sabisch

 

[jbow]

n/t

 

[synthnut]

Hi Andy,
First let me thank you for coming on the forum , and thanks to for some great books that I have gotten so much from ......Much appreciated ......

There are companies like Garrett that are coming out with machines that really do compete in the beach market ....Are they deeper than the Minelab machines ? ......Proabably not in most cases, but in most cases , they really don't have to be !!......Sure there are targets that are just DOWN there that you need that extra power to recover , but when you see how well the newer , cheaper, machines discriminate, and you see how well they handle Iron, the depth is starting to look like a moot point ..... I bought an AT Pro , and I have to tell you that depth has NOT really mattered to me ....I have been able to sweep across a beach in no time flat , and have been able to properly ID my targets and with the exceptional pinpointing ability ( WITHOUT USING PINPOINT ) I am able to hit more targets in a short amount of time, with no weight to speak of !!..... Minelab has not only rested on their laurels , but has raised the price while coming up with nothing to show for the price hike ...... I have had and still have Minelab machines, but I am slowly loosing faith in their ability to remain as the leader of the pack .... Yu don't mind paying top dollar for a top leader in technology ....I had no problem paying $1500 for my E Trac as the finds have paid for it .. As you said , Minelab is more corporate mainstream than they are leaders in the industry anymore ..... Ya snooze , ya loose !!.....Time they woike up !!... Thanks again , Jim

 

[otlew]

Its my understanding that the consumer metal detector is not as important to manufacturers, in terms of dollar sales, as the military side of the house. We are just icing on the cake. So until they are left with little or no icing......

Andy, I want second synthnut's comments, I have enjoyed reading your Advanced Water Working Techniques. It has been a good investment.

 

[Andy Sabisch]

It seems someone always has a lead on some secret detector under development and with the posts of the "Sovereign + Excalibur" hybrid floating around, be interesting to toss some thoughts around in terms of what might or might not be coming and what the reception at the dance might in fact be.

I don't think anyone out there would say that the Sovereign (any of the models over the years) or the Excalibur (also any model over the years) is not a top player on the salt water beaches. The worse the black sand gets the better it performs compared to most single frequency detectors although some of the newer ones such as the AT Pro and the G2 have really shocked many users in these conditions (me included). Technology moves ahead and as the old saying goes, "Even if you are on the right track you will get run over if you are standing still." The BBS circuit was developed in 1990 and has remained virtually unchanged since that time which is 21 years (man do I feel old ) Solid performer for sure but the rest of the industry has not remained stuck in 1990 either.

So lately there have been some posts with the following image . . . is it a legitimate Minelab photo? Well time will tell but having worked with them for more than 20 years on various projects, releasing photos of products not yet released or within a month of release has not happened before.

There was a post that discussed this "new" model . . . . "New Detector????"

I guess one would have to look at the detector with a critical eye and tehn look at what it would like retail for. With the knobs shown, it could not be dive rated. The coil connector is plastic which looks cheap and on a high end detector, that would either be a really bad design choice or not reality.

How about the mode change button . . . . . the control housing would have to be hard wired to the switch which means it could not come off the shaft . . . . . does that make sense from a shipping or transport perspective . . . . . the entire upper section would need to remain in place as shown.

Assuming it uses the same mold design as the GT which it appears to be, to make it waterproof even to say 10 feet, include the waterproof headphones, the recharge system and Minelab