A few points to consider when posting finds & experiences on forums - ANY FORUMS!

[Andy Sabisch]

Over the years I have seen many posts that leave me scratching my head wondering what the person was thinking or should I say not thinking when they hit the final ENTER key. With some of the controversy that has come up on this forum and others lately, I wanted to pass on some points to consider when you are thinking of posting something . . . . do with it what you may:

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1) Do you think only your fellow detectorists read these forums? Having done several articles for magazines that cater to the National Park Service and professional archeologists, I can tell you with absolute certainty that archeologists, park service personnel and law makers do in fact read the posts on a regular basis. If you want to ensure more and more sites are closed to future hunting, then by all means post historically significant finds, details on where they were found and be sure to omit the statement that they were found on private property with permission of the landowner. In discussions with Park Superintendents going back more then 15 years, I have heard time and time again of finds made by detectorists from sites that are in fact protected. And these finds shown on printed pages from the forums were pulled from files and shown to me by those in the position of making the laws we are facing. The recent issue of state waters in Wisconsin being closed to detecting was greatly influenced by people postings photos of prehistoric copper artifacts that were being recovered from state owned lands and had been for years. When no one knew about them or publicized where they came from things were fine but when the posts showed the artifacts and then said they came from site X or site Y which was state owned, what reaction did we expect? Exactly what happened!

Think about the photos you post and if you do feel the need to post photos, add that they were found on private property with permission of the owner . . . . take a look at the photos relic hunting legend Ed Fedory publishes . . . since day one he always adds that to his posts. articles or books and does it for a reason.

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2) Do you think all detectorists have strong morals when it comes to hunting someone elses sites? If you find a killer site, you have to be a simpleton or extremely naive to post the specifics of the site where someone else can identify where you were. It would be great to say everyone would respect someone else's spots that they found but that is like asking a fisherman not to fish your "honey hole" . . . . . there will be 100 guys fishing the spot within 24 hours and detecting is no different. There are very few people I am willing to take to sites I have researched and are producing for that very reason . . . . . I have made that mistake too often in the past and in each case, one person takes two more who in turn take 4 more and so on . . . and the next thing I know the site is cleaned out. "Legal in USA" clearly messed up posting specific details of the golf course and describing why it was a great site to hunt . . . . . if there is a hunter within driving distance that is not at least thinking of hunting it, they must have a dozen other killer sites to hunt. But in fact he is not alone . . . . I will not hunt someone's site - does not matter of they took me there or they made the mistake of mentioning it in passing . . . . just do not do it. Unfortuately that is a psoition most do not hold . . . heck, the local club is always listening for site leads from "newer" members and have gone in cleaning out several very productive sites . . . . think who you are talking to - they are looking for sites and most will clean yours out given the chance.

Bottom line . . . . unless you are willing to open the door to every hunter with a computer (or a friend with a computer) within 100 miles, [size=large]DO NOT POST DETAILS OF YOUR SITE![/size] This includes photos that can be identified or or information that someone can deduce where you where.

In my latest book I have a photo of a George Washington button found by John Manger in Maryland. Well, he made the mistake of posting a photo of the find as well as the house he found it at where he had permission. Well, it took less than 24 hours for someone to identify it and John had to ask for the post to be pulled . . . several people went and hunted it without permission and John took the heat for their actions.

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3) Think about particularly rare finds before you post them: If your find has historical significance think twice before you post the photos and details of the find . . . you may be proud of your find and want to share it but as #1 above discusses, the audience is far larger than your fellow detectorists . . . . and they can easily figure out where it comes from.

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Until we have a system like the UK does where finds are cataloged by the local coroner or as we call then historians which encourages hunters to being in what they find along with specifics of where and how it was found to build a database used by historians, there will always be a group trying to shut us all down as we are perceived as "grave robbers" looting historical treasures. We can work to change that perception but many of the posts that appear on forums simply give the other side the ammunition that they are looking for to pass laws and close areas.

Just some points to consider . . . . . . . hope they are taken in the spirit in which they were intended.

Andy Sabisch

 

[Larry (IL)]

Good post Andy, how about posting on the V3 forum as well?

 

[Chris(SoCenWI)]

n/t

 

[therick]

n/t

 

[SteveP(NH)]

very well put

 

[Rick(ND)]

n/t

 

[Andy Sabisch]

In my original message I mentioned John from Maryland that had posted pictures of his George Washington inaugural button he found last year along with a few photos of the site he found it at . . just the house and section of grass . . . . nothing more. I think many of us - me included would have seen that as harmless since he was very non-descript in where it was found. Unfortunately that was not to be the case as some local hunter recognized the house and took it as an open invitation to hunt the private residence without obtaining permission. Luckily John was able to have the post pulled BUT the damage had been done and he had to fight to keep access to the area.

Did not want it to come across as John was being naive (or a simpleton) in doing what he did as he thought - as most of us would in never giving the photo a second thought - that not saying where he found it was sufficient to protect his site . . . with the results that took place.

My apologies to John and again, just suggesting that one think twice when posting any information on sites we may have come across.

Andy

 

[John - Maryland]

Thanks Andy. No offence taken.

 

[marcomo]

Andy - I wholeheartedly agree with what you said.

Loose lips sink ships. Specifically, loose lips deplete your hard earned sweet spots for detecting.

"Deep research" for many is lurking on these boards looking for clues on places to detect.

We all have a reponsibility to "do no harm" - to the land or our right to detect.

Unfortunately it always happens in life - we all pay the price for those few knuckleheads who have no ethics and even less intelligence.

Also when you post pictures of that extremely valuable find, remember that all finds you make are legally subject to taxation.

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Andy,great advice.Thanks Ron

 

[padiggin]

Andy

I agree with what you wrote, however I wanted to respond with some of my points of view and opinion on the paragraph you wrote above.

First of all, I would like to mention that if Park Service personnel and law makers are regularly reading the postings on this forum, I'd have to question why they are receiving a tax payer based salary to sit in their offices to read forums such as this. In fact, if that is the case, I believe we all need to be writing our local congressional representative and submit written complaints that federal and/or local gov't employees are violating their agency policy on internet usage during duty hours. These gov't Park Service employees work for us, we do not work for them. And since my tax dollars are going to support their salaries, housing allowances, great gov't health care plans, life insurance, and retirement plans and cost of living increases that they enjoy annually, I expect that they will obey and follow their agency policy on internet abuse and carry out their public service duties by worrying more about assisting park visitors, keeping the rest rooms clean, and the property well groomed. Worrying about where metal detecting hobbyists are making their finds is not in their job descriptions I'm sure.

Secondly, while I agree with not posting the exact locations of finds (which if the Park Service public employees are reading this, they will now know we are being secretive about our finds), posting "found on private property with permission of the land owner" means nothing, especially since these public servants are attempting to squash any type of recovery efforts to include private property. It means nothing for two reasons, 1) because how is that statement proof that a person actually found the artifact on private property with permission of the land owner? A person can write anything and that doesn't necessarily make it fact or the truth. And 2) these "public servants" do not respect private property themselves. They want control. Control over you, control over what you do and what you own/possess. Just like in Kentucky where the law makers are attempting to pass a law restricting what you recover on private property "with permission of the land owner."

Again - I'm not arguing with what you wrote, I basically agree with all that you wrote. I'm just appalled that if you know for a fact, that gov't archeologists and park service employees, salaried by the tax payers, are reading these forums when they really should be out researching areas to do their work, assisting park visitors, developing artifact displays, cleaning the rest rooms, and mowing the properties of public lands, shame on them for abusing their agency policy on internet usage while we, the tax payers are paying their nice cushy salaries, and other perks to include annual cost of living increases. And shame on all of us for not raising our voices collectively to stop the intrusion of our rights by public officials. I'll get off my soap box now - hopefully a few fellow archeologists and park service employees read my comments. I'd love to know what any of them would have to say in order to justify their actions.

 

[Mike from MI "Iron Brigade"]

I scratch my head with you when people post certain things!
I am with you bro!

 

[stonecracker59]

Good info Andy I have seen people get collections of arrowheads taken away from them by government agents for stoeies in a paper and internet posting your right officals read these forums. Howard

 

[burien]

They read many sources (forums, eBay, Craigslist, blogs, photo libraries, etc) specifically to see whom is where and if their areas are being encroached upon. So do fish and game, mining concerns, park services, etc. It is a cheap and easy way to track what you are protecting.

 

[king-ghidorah]

Some very good points u made there Andy.

 

[ellis]

thanks andy..very good info. yes it's hard sometimes to say nothing or not say 'where'..if you must say 'where" just say in front of your two feet. let the archy boys figure that one out..hh

 

[sangamon]

some of our friends haven't gotten the message!

 

[peggysue3045]

Good post Andy.